Is Racism Objective or Subjective?

[AGENT J]

1.) So let me get this straight, you attack me because of my post count
2.) then when i reply to defend myself, you tell me im defelcting?
3.) Who are ADAM SCHIFF? Just constantly lying to anyone who is willing to listen?
4.) Im more then happy to debate and talk about anything, but you seem to not able to get past the first few words of any post and simply reply with "trash post or LOL POST COUNT DUDE"

1.) never attacked you, i pointed out a fact
2.) you are deflecting since you STILL haven't simply defended your post
3.) see, instead of defending your failed hypocrisy based post this is another deflection
4.) then i guess you should get started instead of deflecting.
Please let us know when you are ready, thanks!

 

[AustralianuS]

Not in certain settings or circumstances. Inescapable and as a group meaning as a whole. By reducing context, the subject of inescapable disadvantage of a group becomes meaningless. The context for the sociological understanding of racism as a social construct and not merely an individual act is global. The majority in question, as always in social dynamics as opposed to population demographics, is power.

I've never said they weren't disadvantaged and white peope are.

I don't understand racism? It sounds like you can't differentiate between racism and systematic racism.


Racism - prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.

That's the problem with people redefining racism as "you don't agree with what I think or I don't agree with your remarks so youre racist"

 

[AustralianuS]

LOL

If Garner were White your view would completely change. You're blind to your own bias.

Nope. I don't follow media agendas.

You make assumptions about others because you don't have the ability to believe you are wrong, about anything. You have zero objectivity and think that you're always right.


You cannot stay on subject and have to fill your comments with assumptions and your own personal bias.

While tragic, all you see is a cop killing a black man. You ignore him resisting arrest and you ignore his medical problems he has before the incident happenes. You always ignore context that don't fit your view.

 

[Middle_Ground]

My black son in law was pulled over on Sunday. He opened his wallet to give the officer his driver's license when he looked back to the officer there was a gun pointed in his face.
My son in law put his hands on the steering wheel and said to his commander that he was speaking to via Bluetooth when he got pulled over. Please contact the sergeant on duty for this area as there is a gun in my face and I don't know what's going on. I might be dead before I can get back to work.
The officer started yelling at him to get out of the car, keep his hands up and did he have a weapon...my son in law said no I don't have a weapon and sir I can't keep my hands where you can see them and get out of the car.
Thank God this officer received a command to stand down return to his vehicle and wait for backup.
You know it's sad as a black man even in law enforcement in the US this is what can happen to you.
I'm just glad he didn't become a statistic.
Oh and do you know why he pulled his gun...he saw my son in laws federal conceal carry permit in his wallet.
I doubt my son in law & daughter will visit again.
My son in law just completed his training a few months ago he is LEO.
I gotta worry when in uniform thugs will kill him and when out his own will. ****ing sad.
Please stop talking about bigotry or racism towards you unless you fear for your loved ones every time they walk out the ****ing door.

 

[AGENT J]

My black son in law was pulled over on Sunday. He opened his wallet to give the officer his driver's license when he looked back to the officer there was a gun pointed in his face.
My son in law put his hands on the steering wheel and said to his commander that he was speaking to via Bluetooth when he got pulled over. Please contact the sergeant on duty for this area as there is a gun in my face and I don't know what's going on. I might be dead before I can get back to work.
The officer started yelling at him to get out of the car, keep his hands up and did he have a weapon...my son in law said no I don't have a weapon and sir I can't keep my hands where you can see them and get out of the car.
Thank God this officer received a command to stand down return to his vehicle and wait for backup.
You know it's sad as a black man even in law enforcement in the US this is what can happen to you.
I'm just glad he didn't become a statistic.
Oh and do you know why he pulled his gun...he saw my son in laws federal conceal carry permit in his wallet.
I doubt my son in law & daughter will visit again.
My son in law just completed his training a few months ago he is LEO.
I gotta worry when in uniform thugs will kill him and when out his own will. ****ing sad.
Please stop talking about bigotry or racism towards you unless you fear for your loved ones every time they walk out the ****ing door.

disgraceful especially since (correct me if im wrong) the only way to have a national conceal carry is active or retired law enforcement.

 

[Mr Person]

I think the phrase "I don't see race" is valid. That being said, I also believe context is important. When I say "I don't see race", I mean a person's race has no bearing on how I treat or talk to people of different races. The color of their skin doesn't change anything.

I can still acknowledge that people are different races and it still mean very little to me.

I would treat a black the same as I would a white, hispanic and anyone else I run across.

I was in Texas looking for a job in a predominantly Mexican area. For weeks I called and asked for a job and was always told there was nothing. During that time, they same office found 3 jobs for Mexicans with less knowledge and experience in the same field.

It took me a month to get a job through them. The difference? I got a white case worker. I had a job the next day when I demanded to switch to the only white worker in there.

It was obvious enough that my wife's family (Mexican) said I should file a complaint.

Pretending like racism isn't a broad brush painted by all races is being intellectually dishonest. Every race does it.


Acknowledging it doesn't make racism against the black community any less important.

Cool story, bro.

You seem to start a lot of threads about race for someone that doesn't even see race. Sounds like race is actually really, really important to you.

I was just going to say that....

 

[AustralianuS]

I was just going to say that....

Um my last thread was flushed down to an area that I cant access it, so Ive decided to make another thread addressing the issue.

 

[AustralianuS]

White people can certainly have a racial group disadvantage in certain settings and circumstances... moreso than a lot of black people, where a number of white people experience racial repression due to their skin color. Though the average of these groups disadvantages may skew against black people... Individuals of any race can experience group racism.

. I just don't get why does racism matter more when it's a black man than a white man. Or take whitey out of it and look at Mexicans. Would it matter more then?

It wasn't anecdontal. The place was shut down. I could provide details but that's not the point I'm trying to make.

I'm not pretending it's not much worse in the black community. That's not my argument at all. I'm asking how can racism be so horrible in one instance and in another, it's no big deal.

It doesn't make sense. Its hypocritical. That's not even the bad part. The bad part is it's acceptable hypocrisy now. If there will ever be change, it won't be made using this line of thinking.

 

[AGENT J]

1.) I just don't get why does racism matter more when it's a black man than a white man.
2.) I'm asking how can racism be so horrible in one instance and in another, it's no big deal.
3.) The bad part is it's acceptable hypocrisy now.

1.) who claims thats? how many people? what makes that true?
2.) again, who claims thats? how many people? what makes that true?
3,) LMAO who accepts it? how many people? what makes that true?

once again very telling

 

[MrShangles]

When racial bigotry is expressed by a member of the majority power it results in disadvantage to minorities as a group in perpetuating privilege. When racial bigotry is expressed by a minority it does not result in disadvantage of the majority as a group. Racial bigotry by the majority creates systemic disadvantage. Racial bigotry by a minority does not create systemic disadvantage. The difference between racial bigotry (an individual act) and racism (a social construct) is systemic disadvantage.

Let me take a wild guess and say that you probably use the race card a lot, you seam to have brushed up on everything racism. Just my red neck opinion, and now I bet you say something about red necks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Perotista]

I think the phrase "I don't see race" is valid. That being said, I also believe context is important. When I say "I don't see race", I mean a person's race has no bearing on how I treat or talk to people of different races. The color of their skin doesn't change anything.

I can still acknowledge that people are different races and it still mean very little to me.

I would treat a black the same as I would a white, hispanic and anyone else I run across.

I was in Texas looking for a job in a predominantly Mexican area. For weeks I called and asked for a job and was always told there was nothing. During that time, they same office found 3 jobs for Mexicans with less knowledge and experience in the same field.

It took me a month to get a job through them. The difference? I got a white case worker. I had a job the next day when I demanded to switch to the only white worker in there.

It was obvious enough that my wife's family (Mexican) said I should file a complaint.

Pretending like racism isn't a broad brush painted by all races is being intellectually dishonest. Every race does it.


Acknowledging it doesn't make racism against the black community any less important.

Objective and subjective, both. Along with overt and covert racism. Then there are those who see racism when it isn't there or play the victim. Real and imagined, both again.

 

[AustralianuS]

Maybe you dont understand the question.

your cliam was:
the majority of black people have self reported little to no racism in their entire life.

i asked you
"you're gonna have to prove that claim with actual facts, and what does little to none mean?"

you then gave me a link to a research paper from a blog and seemingly everyday people about discrimination.

So, logically of course, im still waiting for my question to be answered the way i asked it about your statement. What you provided most certainly is not factual proof of your claim making it true. lol

Do you have something else?

Have things improved over the past few decades? I’d say yes by a large margin. I bring this up because I think your solutions to ending racism should be taken from the current status not from “decades or centuries”ago status. Not trying to ignore they happened and the social fights alon* the way, but it’s not relevant to fixing the current status of racism.

Second, you haven’t experienced race based oppression or discrimination that you know of. It very well has happened without your knowledge and pending your full definition and how extreme you want to take the “oppression and discrimination”, it may have happened with your knowledge, but it was too small a detail to care.
Short story, had a black supervisor that would extend a helping hand to the younger Sailors but mostly only the black ones to help mentor them into better Sailors. I never reported the obvious favoritism (which is against the UCMJ) because if I had asked for assistance, he would have given it. Difference is, he would go out of his way for the other black Sailors, some of which didn’t want his help.
On the west coast, the Philpino mafia is strong too. Absolutely look out for each other over everyone else. Speaking tagalan helps, but only if you have the right look.

For the record, this is not me complaining about it. I’ve done very well for myself and had mentors/friends of all colors, nationalities, whatever, but it’s out there and will never make a news story because, as you pointed out, it would just be “poor white guys fee-ings “ or whatever you said.

 

[celticwar17]

1.) who claims thats? how many people? what makes that true?
2.) again, who claims thats? how many people? what makes that true?
3,) LMAO who accepts it? how many people? what makes that true?

once again very telling

People like eco do... he literally believes a black person cannot be a racist.

 

[HowardBThiname]

When racial bigotry is expressed by a member of the majority power it results in disadvantage to minorities as a group in perpetuating privilege. When racial bigotry is expressed by a minority it does not result in disadvantage of the majority as a group. Racial bigotry by the majority creates systemic disadvantage. Racial bigotry by a minority does not create systemic disadvantage. The difference between racial bigotry (an individual act) and racism (a social construct) is systemic disadvantage.

This type of thinking is warped, outdated and dangerous.

Racial bigotry against anyone by anyone, no matter if they are in a racial majority or minority is EXACTLY the same. It's indefensible. The problem of racial bigotry isn't the effect it has on groups, it's the effect it has on the individual being discriminated against, and it's always wrong.

Be very, VERY suspicious of anyone who says it isn't.

 

[holbritter]

Racial bigotry accounts for individuals. Racism accounts for group disadvantage. Whites cannot be disadvantaged as a group because they have the majority power.

And when they don't?

 

[ecofarm]

And when they don't?

Context is global. Anything less, the white can just move.

 

[AGENT J]

Have things improved over the past few decades? I’d say yes by a large margin. I bring this up because I think your solutions to ending racism should be taken from the current status not from “decades or centuries”ago status. Not trying to ignore they happened and the social fights alon* the way, but it’s not relevant to fixing the current status of racism.

Second, you haven’t experienced race based oppression or discrimination that you know of. It very well has happened without your knowledge and pending your full definition and how extreme you want to take the “oppression and discrimination”, it may have happened with your knowledge, but it was too small a detail to care.
Short story, had a black supervisor that would extend a helping hand to the younger Sailors but mostly only the black ones to help mentor them into better Sailors. I never reported the obvious favoritism (which is against the UCMJ) because if I had asked for assistance, he would have given it. Difference is, he would go out of his way for the other black Sailors, some of which didn’t want his help.
On the west coast, the Philpino mafia is strong too. Absolutely look out for each other over everyone else. Speaking tagalan helps, but only if you have the right look.

For the record, this is not me complaining about it. I’ve done very well for myself and had mentors/friends of all colors, nationalities, whatever, but it’s out there and will never make a news story because, as you pointed out, it would just be “poor white guys fee-ings “ or whatever you said.

Who are you even talking to or did you mean to quote in this post because it makes no sense LMAO

 

[AGENT J]

People like eco do... he literally believes a black person cannot be a racist.

that doesnt answer my questions, does it.
You named ONE person that falsely believes a black person cant be racist. There are also people that just as falsely claim most black people don't experience racism. Both claims are false and stupid. Neither justify or support your reasoning for your statements so ill ask you AGAIN. lol


1.) who claims thats? how many people? what makes that true?
2.) again, who claims thats? how many people? what makes that true?
3,) who accepts it? how many people? what makes that true?

 

[americanwoman]

Um my last thread was flushed down to an area that I cant access it, so Ive decided to make another thread addressing the issue.

It also struck out at me that for someone that "doesn't see race" you sure as heck saw three Mexicans getting jobs instead of simply three other people. It really stuck out to you that they were Mexicans, right?

 

[AGENT J]

I did... http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article/file?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0183356&type=printable

Maybe you dont understand the question.

your cliam was:
the majority of black people have self reported little to no racism in their entire life.

i asked you
"you're gonna have to prove that claim with actual facts, and what does little to none mean?"

you then gave me a link to a research paper from a blog and seemingly everyday people about discrimination.

So, logically of course, im still waiting for my question to be answered the way i asked it about your statement. What you provided most certainly is not factual proof of your claim making it true. lol

Do you have something else?

Have things improved over the past few decades? I’d say yes by a large margin. I bring this up because I think your solutions to ending racism should be taken from the current status not from “decades or centuries”ago status. Not trying to ignore they happened and the social fights alon* the way, but it’s not relevant to fixing the current status of racism.

Second, you haven’t experienced race based oppression or discrimination that you know of. It very well has happened without your knowledge and pending your full definition and how extreme you want to take the “oppression and discrimination”, it may have happened with your knowledge, but it was too small a detail to care.
Short story, had a black supervisor that would extend a helping hand to the younger Sailors but mostly only the black ones to help mentor them into better Sailors. I never reported the obvious favoritism (which is against the UCMJ) because if I had asked for assistance, he would have given it. Difference is, he would go out of his way for the other black Sailors, some of which didn’t want his help.
On the west coast, the Philpino mafia is strong too. Absolutely look out for each other over everyone else. Speaking tagalan helps, but only if you have the right look.

For the record, this is not me complaining about it. I’ve done very well for myself and had mentors/friends of all colors, nationalities, whatever, but it’s out there and will never make a news story because, as you pointed out, it would just be “poor white guys fee-ings “ or whatever you said.

1.) I just don't get why does racism matter more when it's a black man than a white man.
2.) I'm asking how can racism be so horrible in one instance and in another, it's no big deal.
3.) The bad part is it's acceptable hypocrisy now.

1.) who claims thats? how many people? what makes that true?
2.) again, who claims thats? how many people? what makes that true?
3,) LMAO who accepts it? how many people? what makes that true?

once again very telling

People like eco do... he literally believes a black person cannot be a racist.

I find it odd that in group one i was talking to Celtic but AustralianuS quoted my question and replied to it and the reply made zero sense

and then in group to i was talking to AustralianuS but Celtic quoted me and replied
maybe its nothing :shrug:

 

[JackA]

It's both.

Objectively: there are different races

Subjectively: Feelings and attitudes towards individuals because of his or her race. Cultural differences play an important part. The more someone of a
different race speaks like you speak, dresses like you dress, evinces social behavior that you respect, the less his or her racial difference often .
will matter. In my opinion, cultural differences are the major cause of racial antagonisms.

 

[holbritter]

Context is global. Anything less, the white can just move.

So can everyone else.

 

[ecofarm]

So can everyone else.

A black person cannot move somewhere and get a fair shake in the justice system.

 

[holbritter]

A black person cannot move somewhere and get a fair shake in the justice system.

I'm lost. What does someone moving have to do with the justice system?

 

[ecofarm]

I'm lost. What does someone moving have to do with the justice system?

If a white person suffers racial bigotry, they can move. A black person cannot move to escape injustice regarding housing, employment and the justice system.