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Is Monsanto an evil corporation?

  • Thread starter Thread starter buttonpsi
  • Start date Start date

Is Monsanto an evil corporation?

  • Yes

    Votes: 7 53.8%
  • No

    Votes: 5 38.5%
  • Maybe-so

    Votes: 1 7.7%

  • Total voters
    13
B

buttonpsi

Here is their website...

Monsanto ~ Home

"Monsanto is an agricultural company. We apply innovation and technology to help farmers around the world be successful, produce healthier foods, better animal feeds and more fiber, while also reducing agriculture's impact on our environment."

Wikipedia says...

Monsanto - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



In 1954, Monsanto partnered with German chemical giant Bayer to form Mobay and market polyurethanes in the US. In the 1960s and 1970s, Monsanto became the leading producer of Agent Orange for US Military operations in Vietnam


Think about that one.





I could go on and on- I even left out many of the lawsuits...you decide for yourself.
 
Here is their website...

Monsanto ~ Home

Wikipedia says...

Monsanto - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Think about that one.

I could go on and on- I even left out many of the lawsuits...you decide for yourself.

I didn't know you could have a patent on a method and get what I guess could be called "royalties" for it....pretty interesting. I wouldn't call them evil as I don't even know if there is a law that allows companies to patent what I can only describe as "a way of doing things". If there is....who the hell came up with such a "stooped" law?

This is def. pretty evil though :



This I found pretty interesting though :


I always thought FOX was the voice of the "little conservative guy". It shows where their royalties really are.

This too seemed pretty fvcked up


Imagine if Nike tried to weasel out by saying "We only hired kids to make our laces!"

You know what....nvm. This company might not be evil but as far as being crooked. There is no doubt.
 
Karl Marx was right!!
 
You know what....nvm. This company might not be evil but as far as being crooked. There is no doubt.

Well anything that will bring consciousness to this corporation.

It seems like things like this slip under the "rug".
 
wtf are you talking about? Please specify.

Just a random thought. Is Monsanto evil? I certianly say they are greedy at the very least.

I bet they would also try to patent life itself:

I am creating artificial life, declares US gene pioneer

Craig Venter, the controversial DNA researcher involved in the race to decipher the human genetic code, has built a synthetic chromosome out of laboratory chemicals and is poised to announce the creation of the first new artificial life form on Earth.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2007/oct/06/genetics.climatechange
 
Just a random thought. Is Monsanto evil? I certianly say they are greedy at the very least.

I bet they would also try to patent life itself:

I am creating artificial life, declares US gene pioneer

No, sorry-you stole that from Monsanto's patent on life.
 
There aren't any non-evil corporations.
 
YES, Mosanto is a very evil corporation.
I will try to find a documentary I watched about them. It's a little 15 minute clip.
If I find it, i'll post the link, and you'll see why they're so evil.
 
Corporations are not evil or good or happy or sad. Some people in corps are evil, some are good, some are happy, and some are sad.

Do you think all those who own stock in Monsanto and are employeed by Monsanto are evil? Those who think all corps are evil, do you also think all those who own corporate stock or are employed by an incorporated entity are evil?
 
As far as bovine growth hormones go, I have heard from a professor at South Dakota State University (one of the leading agricultural colleges in the world) that milk produced from cows using BVG is absolutely no different from regular cows.

On the topic, no they're not evil they're just trying to make money off products that they invested in to create.
 
On the topic, no they're not evil they're just trying to make money off products that they invested in to create.

And also trying to make money off of the people that own crops/animals that cross pollinate/breed with their patent. These people have no control over this, yet Monsanto wants to take their profit. Where do you draw the line?
 
I know, I worded it wrong. It just seems to me that they are either above the law, or writing it to benefit from their ridiculous practices.

How does any of that indicate that they're above the law? Why shouldn't companies protect their intellectual property?
 
How does any of that indicate that they're above the law? Why shouldn't companies protect their intellectual property?
Come one RiNYC, this question makes no sense to those that do not understand the concept of intellectual property. :lol:
 
TOJ said:
Corporations are not evil or good or happy or sad.

"Evil" and "good" as properties, are not categorically similar to "happy" and "sad". The former describe propensity to create certain effects, the latter describe dispositions or emotions. It's easy enough to see that they're not in the same category.

For instance, most people would agree that the Einsatzgruppen were evil. They were, collectively, responsible for the execution of about three million Jews or other "undesirables." But it doesn't make sense to say that they were happy or sad. Individual members of the Einsatzgruppen, sure, but we can't say that of the whole troup. However, we have no trouble seeing that as an entity in its own right, the Einsatzgruppe was evil.

I would admit that the definition of evil is a little hard to pin down. It's certainly got an element of subjectivity to it (we can doubt whether astronomers from another galaxy, looking at earth in the early 40's with their super-powerful telescopes, would have had any sense that the holocaust was evil). We nevertheless have an intuitive grasp of what is evil and what is not.

TOJ said:
Some people in corps are evil, some are good, some are happy, and some are sad.

No, I think that corporations are inherently evil--that is, evil by definition, for a couple reasons:

1) Corporations have, as an entity, the rights of a person, though only some of the responsibilities.

2) Corporations have, generally speaking, vastly more money and power than individuals, and so can prosecute their rights much more vehemently than individuals typically can.

3) Corporations run under the assumption that the only responsibility they have is to make money. While individuals within a corporation may have a conscience and may well want to do the right thing, typically these impulses get "washed out" as actions the corporation takes requires multiple hands to effect. The only reason a corporation will do anything good is if it garners greater profit.

And I could list a number of other reasons, but I think that would do to start.

TOJ said:
Do you think all those who own stock in Monsanto and are employeed by Monsanto are evil?

No, though I'm sure some are. They wouldn't all need to be evil for Monsanto to be evil.

TOJ said:
Those who think all corps are evil, do you also think all those who own corporate stock or are employed by an incorporated entity are evil?

No, but they need not be. There may have been someone in the Einsatzgruppe who served as a cook or something and who had no idea what the others in the group were about. He may have been a completely decent and good man who would have been utterly shocked to find out that the people he was making dinner for each night were out murdering during the day. The existence of such a man in the Einsatzgruppe would not have made it one whit less evil, though.
 
And also trying to make money off of the people that own crops/animals that cross pollinate/breed with their patent. These people have no control over this, yet Monsanto wants to take their profit. Where do you draw the line?

I would draw it there, ecologically processes are not under the farmers control and he should not be forced to try and stop them. At the same time if Monsanto wants their intellectual property defended they should remove its ability to reproduce (well within the realm of possibility).
 
No, I think that corporations are inherently evil--that is, evil by definition, for a couple reasons:

1) Corporations have, as an entity, the rights of a person, though only some of the responsibilities.

Link? Corporations do not enjoy the rights of persons. They possess legal personality, though that's often a negative thing. Also, could you list some responsibilities that persons have that corporations do not?

2) Corporations have, generally speaking, vastly more money and power than individuals, and so can prosecute their rights much more vehemently than individuals typically can.

And by the same token, corporations are much more lucrative targets for plaintiff lawyers who work on contingency and are seeking huge settlements or jury verdicts for wrongs that the vast majority of individuals would be judgment-proof against.


What makes you think that corporations don't try to act on a more moral plane than the average individual? The vast majority of people are rational actors in that they will always choose to enter into contracts that will maximize their value. Individuals, by virtue of being individuals, do not face the same level of scrutiny that corporations face. Most corporations have an interest that is as strong, if not stronger, in maintaining a positive public image.


Furthermore, there are many areas in which corporations have a greater impact on society than do most individuals.

First, by virtue of existing, corporations allow people to buy and sell goods for lower costs than they would otherwise.

Second, they employ the majority of the country.

Third, they pay approximately $350,000,000,000 in corporate taxes that would otherwise be missing from the budget.

Fourth, they are responsible for the largest share of charitable giving in the world.

And I could list a number of other reasons, but I think that would do to start.

Hopefully your other reasons are better than the ones you started with.
 
RightinNYC said:
Link? Corporations do not enjoy the rights of persons. They possess legal personality, though that's often a negative thing. Also, could you list some responsibilities that persons have that corporations do not?

Corporations enjoy all the protections of the first amendment, at least so far as they can be applied, as well as most other protections afforded citizens in the Constitution and in other law. Corporations enjoy the right to sue. Corporations enjoy the right to own property.

Conversely, shareholders are typically immune from prosecution for illegal acts of the corporation, and so, often, are the officers of the corporation.

Start here:

Corporation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And then also look at:

http://reclaimdemocracy.org/personhood/mayer_personalizing.html

RightinNYC said:
And by the same token, corporations are much more lucrative targets for plaintiff lawyers who work on contingency and are seeking huge settlements or jury verdicts for wrongs that the vast majority of individuals would be judgment-proof against.

And if that were in any way a balance to what I said, we'd expect to find corporations being, on average, about as wealthy as individuals. That simply isn't so.

RightinNYC said:
What makes you think that corporations don't try to act on a more moral plane than the average individual?

1) The theoretical framework already hinted at. In a corporation, the driving motive is profit. To block a morally wrong action that would otherwise generate profit requires the agreement of many people in a corporation. Conversely, to take a morally wrong action that generates profit requires the agreement of relatively few people in the corporation (and sometimes only one person), because it is in line with the overall goals of the corporation. I've seen this principle at work up close and personal many, many times. Plenty of people recognize it. I suggest a perusal of the work of David Korten as a good place to start.

2) Empirically, there are so many stories of corporate mis-or-malfeasance that appear on a regular basis that it's hard to figure out why anyone wouldn't simply accept my assertion as common knowledge.

RightinNYC said:
The vast majority of people are rational actors in that they will always choose to enter into contracts that will maximize their value.

I don't think this is so. I think people are typically quite sentimental and do not govern their affairs with sheer, cold logic.

RightinNYC said:
Individuals, by virtue of being individuals, do not face the same level of scrutiny that corporations face. Most corporations have an interest that is as strong, if not stronger, in maintaining a positive public image.

Certainly so. Which is why they subsidize media and politics to such a great degree.

RightinNYC said:
First, by virtue of existing, corporations allow people to buy and sell goods for lower costs than they would otherwise.

In itself, that's not a good, and in fact is very often evil. We get to purchase lots of stuff in this country for a relatively low cost because those corporations that make those goods pay their workers an unfair--indeed, demeaning--wage in other countries.

RightinNYC said:
Second, they employ the majority of the country.

Why is that any kind of counter-argument? Are you saying that without corporations, we'd all just sit on the ground and waste away doing nothing?

RightinNYC said:
Third, they pay approximately $350,000,000,000 in corporate taxes that would otherwise be missing from the budget.

Which sum will probably not turn out to be remotely enough to pay for the damage they ultimately cause or the costs they socialize. Again, see David Korten's work for clarification and reams of examples.

RightinNYC said:
Fourth, they are responsible for the largest share of charitable giving in the world.

Again, it's not remotely enough to make up for the damage they've caused.

RightinNYC said:
Hopefully your other reasons are better than the ones you started with.

Actually, my hope is that maybe you might understand the reasons already presented and argue your case against the propositions as they stand, not as you think they should. But I imagine that hope is in vain.
 
where is all the liberal sympathy for these poor misguided corporations
we shouldn't punish them, we should educate and nurture them to a more healthy state of being
they don't need punishment, they need rehabilitation

[/sarcasm]:roll:

individuals good, groups of people E.V.I.L. :doh
 
Corporations enjoy all the protections of the first amendment, at least so far as they can be applied

....you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. This sentence just boggles my mind. The First Amendment doesn't "protect" corporations anywhere near the way it "protects" citizens. Why can't cigarette companies advertise on tv? Why can't booze companies advertise during kids shows.

Hint: It's because legislatures can limit what corporations can say in ways that they cannot limit what people can say.

as well as most other protections afforded citizens in the Constitution and in other law. Corporations enjoy the right to sue. Corporations enjoy the right to own property.

Why shouldn't they? The granting of legal personality to organizations is a great thing.

Conversely, shareholders are typically immune from prosecution for illegal acts of the corporation, and so, often, are the officers of the corporation.

Why shouldn't they be? If I owned one share of Mcdonalds, should some woman be able to sue me and take my house if she finds a bug in her burger?

And if that were in any way a balance to what I said, we'd expect to find corporations being, on average, about as wealthy as individuals. That simply isn't so.

What? How do you figure?


Yea, I get it. My point is that corporations have a huge financial incentive to avoid negative publicity that individuals do not have, and they are thus more likely to be risk averse when it comes to immoral actions. This is common sense.

Plenty of people recognize it.

Plenty of people are stupid.

I suggest a perusal of the work of David Korten as a good place to start.

I suggest a basic primer in economics to help you understand why none of what you're saying makes sense.

2) Empirically, there are so many stories of corporate mis-or-malfeasance that appear on a regular basis that it's hard to figure out why anyone wouldn't simply accept my assertion as common knowledge.

You don't seem to understand what "empirical" means. Empirical evidence is statistical evidence collected that proves a point. Anecdotal observations (which is what you're talking about) is the exact opposite. One of these is useful in proving a conclusion, the other is not. You're using the latter.

I don't think this is so. I think people are typically quite sentimental and do not govern their affairs with sheer, cold logic.

I agree with you to the extent that you point out that despite being rational actors by design, people often stupidly act against their own best interests. Corporations are just less stupid.

Certainly so. Which is why they subsidize media and politics to such a great degree.

Yes, because politicians and the media show absolutely no interest in highlighting corporate scandals. That's why the whole Enron collapse was ignored by all major media outlets and why it didn't play any role in the elections in 2002, right? :rofl


Yea, because the people working in an indonesian manufacturing plant for 20 bucks a day are getting screwed. Why, if corporations weren't there, they'd just be down the street, making 50 bucks an hour at one of the other millions of jobs available, right?

Hint: Rational actors don't enter into sub-optimal contracts.

Why is that any kind of counter-argument? Are you saying that without corporations, we'd all just sit on the ground and waste away doing nothing?

No. They would just be horribly underemployed.

Which sum will probably not turn out to be remotely enough to pay for the damage they ultimately cause or the costs they socialize. Again, see David Korten's work for clarification and reams of examples.

Please back this up with some empirical (see, there's that word again) evidence.

Again, it's not remotely enough to make up for the damage they've caused.

Bullshit. Back it up.

Actually, my hope is that maybe you might understand the reasons already presented and argue your case against the propositions as they stand, not as you think they should. But I imagine that hope is in vain.

There's no such thing as a civilized world without corporations. If you eliminated all corporations today, people would immediately reform them tomorrow. Why? Because they're efficient and mutually beneficial. This is a fact, and if you can't understand it, I can't help you.
 
Since all corporations are evil, and monsanto is a corporation, monsanto is therefore an evil corporation :mrgreen:

I am just asking people to look into the facts and maybe question their practices. There are so many shady things going on here.

TOJ said:
Come one RiNYC, this question makes no sense to those that do not understand the concept of intellectual property.

There is a big difference between intellectual property and what I am talking about. Just think about it a little bit.

When we have patents on genetic codes, and people allow their crops/animals to breed outside of their bounds...unknown to the other farmers- should they be able to take a said % of the profit? This doesn't make any sense to me. Is this really intellectual property?
 
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