Is Judaic Monotheism Detrimental to Society?

[William Rea]

[citation needed]

I was going to ask that as well.

I don't believe that a lack of religion makes anyone less "nationalistic" whatever that "nation" is defined as. Religion is just another tool in the armoury to differentiate; in it's absence human beings will invent many other reasons as to why they deserve power, wealth etc more than the other guy.

 

[MKULTRABOY]

I may pull out the document tomorrow and give you a title and author.

Or maybe i wont, and will leave you all to research and enrich yourselves in pursuit of such information

:kitty:

 

[Arcadius]

If S/He is God S/He gets to define "fair", not you. You don't know enough and God has others to worry about AND you. If S/He exists, of course.

I thought god loves everyone. If he's God can't love everyone equally? I always say he because it's the most common term. I personally believe it is the proper term. But if God has to have a gender, I'd say say it makes more sense for it to be female. In fact, God being male, which clearly shows how superior the males of the time thought they were, is one of the many things that makes me find the Christian faith ridiculous. If God singles out people, why doesn't he single out species? Surely there is a far more intelligent species in the universe for him to make his personal play things than the creatures that inhabit this planet. Of course the bible was written in a time in which no one took this into account, because they didn't know there was anything but the Earth and Heavens. My view of a godlike being would be a creature that is omniscient, therefore knows about every little action that is done on Earth, but finds it irrelevant as it is so significant. I also don't believe a being like this would be burdened by a linear perception of time, therefore our civilization has already begun and ended an infinite of times. The perception of God we have today is the very essence of bringing divine beings to our level.

We give god human emotions and human priorities, we even assume that he loves us and only us. I think that is the very pinnacle of human arrogance.


P.S. That rant wasn't particularly towards you. My reply to yours just kind of sparked that up.

 

[Arcadius]

I just felt like putting up some absurd and disturbing bible verses. I just got these from the internet. I made sure all of them were authentic though. I was only going to put a few at first, but there were just so many, so it kinda turned into forty. This is the short version. I could have made a hundred easy. These are in no particular order.


1.(New International Version)"I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man. She must be quiet." (1 Timothy 2:12)

2.(New American Standard) "Go, now, attack Amalek, and deal with him and all that he has. Do not spare him, but kill men and women, children and infants, oxen and sheep, camels and asses." (1 Samuel 15:3)

3.(New American Standard)"You shall not allow a sorceress to live." (Exodus 22:18)

4.(New American Standard) The LORD commands: “kill without showing pity or compassion. Slaughter old men, young men and maidens, women and children” (Ezekiel 9:5-6)

5.(New International Version)"When the men would not listen to his host, the husband seized his concubine and thrust her outside to them. They had relations with her and abused her all night until the following dawn, when they let her go. Then at daybreak the woman came and collapsed at the entrance of the house in which her husband was a guest, where she lay until the morning. When her husband rose that day and opened the door of the house to start out again on his journey, there lay the woman, his concubine, at the entrance of the house with her hands on the threshold. He said to her, 'Come, let us go'; but there was no answer. So the man placed her on an ass and started out again for home." (Judges 19:25-28)

6.(New American Standard)"And the males likewise gave up natural relations with females and burned with lust for one another. Males did shameful things with males and thus received in their own persons the due penalty for their perversity." (Romans 1:27)

7.(New American Standard)"Jephthah made a vow to the Lord. 'If you deliver the Ammonites into my power,' he said, 'whoever comes out of the doors of my house to meet me when I return in triumph from the Ammonites shall belong to the Lord. I shall offer him up as a holocaust.' ... When Jephthah returned to his house in Mizpah, it was his daughter who came forth, playing the tambourines and dancing. She was an only child: he had neither son nor daughter besides her. When he saw her, he rent his garments and said, 'Alas, daughter, you have struck me down and brought calamity upon me. For I have made a vow to the Lord and I cannot retract'." (Judges 11:30-1, 34-5)

8.(New American Standard)"Then God said: 'Take your son Isaac, your only one, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah. There you shall offer him up as a holocaust on a height that I will point out to you'."(Genesis 22:2)

9.(New American Standard)"Wives be subject to your own husbands, as to the Lord." (Ephesians 5:22)

10. "Slaves, be subject to your masters with all reverence, not only to those who are good and equitable but also to those who are perverse." (1 Peter 2:18)

11. (King James) If two men are fighting and the wife of one of them comes to rescue her husband from his assailant, and she reaches out and seizes him by his private parts, you shall cut off her hand. Show her no pity. (Deuteronomy 25:11-13)

12.(New American Standard) “Everyone who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and the one who marries a woman divorced from her husband commits adultery.” (Luke 16:18)

13. (New American Standard) Does not even nature itself teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a dishonor to him, but if a woman has long hair, it is a glory to her? For her hair is given to her for a covering.( 1 Corinthians 11:14-15)

14. (New American Standard) The people of Samaria must bear their guilt, because they have rebelled against their God. They will fall by the sword: their little ones will be dashed to the ground, their pregnant women ripped open. (Hosea 13:16)

15. (New American Standard) "On the following day, the firstborn said to the younger, "Behold, I lay last night with my father; let us make him drink wine tonight also; then you go in and lie with him, that we may preserve our family through our father. So they made their father drink wine that night also, and the younger arose and lay with him; and he did not know when she lay down or when she arose. Thus both the daughters of Lot were with child by their father." (Genesis 19:36)

16. (New American Standard) "Do not worship any other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God." (Exodus 34:14)

17. (New American Standard) “The anger of God rose against them, and he killed their strongest men; he struck down the finest of Israel's young men. But in spite of this, the people kept on sinning. They refused to believe in his miracles. So he ended their lives in failure and gave them years of terror. When God killed some of them, the rest finally sought him. They repented and turned to God.” (Psalms 78:31-34)

18. (New American Standard) “So the Sovereign LORD says: "I will pour out my terrible fury on this place. Its people, animals, trees, and crops will be consumed by the unquenchable fire of my anger." (Jeremiah 7:20)

19. (New Living Translation) "I brought hunger to every city and famine to every town. But still you wouldn't return to me," says the LORD.
"I kept the rain from falling when you needed it the most, ruining all your crops. I sent rain on one town but withheld it from another. Rain fell on one field, while another field withered away. People staggered from one town to another for a drink of water, but there was never enough. But still you wouldn't return to me," says the LORD.
"I struck your farms and vineyards with blight and mildew. Locusts devoured all your fig and olive trees. But still you wouldn't return to me," says the LORD.
"I sent plagues against you like the plagues I sent against Egypt long ago. I killed your young men in war and slaughtered all your horses. The stench of death filled the air! But still you wouldn't return to me," says the LORD.
"I destroyed some of your cities, as I destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah. Those of you who survived were like half-burned sticks snatched from a fire. But still you wouldn't return to me," says the LORD.” (Amos 4:6-11)

20.(New American Standard) "I will make them eat the flesh of their sons and the flesh of their daughters, and they will eat one another's flesh in the siege and in the distress with which their enemies and those who seek their life will distress them (Jeremiah 19:9)

21. (New Living Translation) ““Therefore, this is what the Sovereign Lord says: You people have behaved worse than your neighbors and have refused to obey my decrees and regulations. You have not even lived up to the standards of the nations around you. 8 Therefore, I myself, the Sovereign Lord, am now your enemy. I will punish you publicly while all the nations watch. 9 Because of your detestable idols, I will punish you like I have never punished anyone before or ever will again. 10 Parents will eat their own children, and children will eat their parents. I will punish you and scatter to the winds the few who survive.” (Ezekiel 5:7-10)

22. (New American Standard) The women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, just as the Law also says. If they desire to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is improper for a woman to speak in church. (1 Corinthians 14:34-35)

23. (New Living Translation) “Women should listen and learn quietly and submissively. I do not let women teach men or have authority over them. Let them listen quietly. For God made Adam first, and afterward he made Eve. And it was the woman, not Adam, who was deceived by Satan, and sin was the result. But women will be saved through childbearing and by continuing to live in faith, love, holiness, and modesty.” (1 Timothy 2:11-15)

24. (New American Standard) If there is anyone who curses his father or his mother, he shall surely be put to death; he has cursed his father or his mother, his bloodguiltiness is upon him. (Leviticus 20:9)

25. (New American Standard) He who spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is careful to discipline him. (Proverbs 13:24)

26. (New International Version) Blows and wounds scrub away evil, and beatings purge the inmost being. (Proverbs 20:30)

27. (New American Standard) "And the king said, Bring me a sword. And they brought a sword before the king. And the king said, Divide the living child in two, and give half to the one, and half to the other." (I Kings 3:24-25)

28. (New International Version) “If even then you remain hostile toward me and refuse to obey, I will inflict you with seven more disasters for your sins. I will release wild animals that will kill your children and destroy your cattle, so your numbers will dwindle and your roads will be deserted.” (Leviticus 26:21-22)

29. (English Standard Version) “No one whose testicles are crushed or whose male organ is cut off shall enter the assembly of the Lord.”

30. (New American Standard) “No child of an incestuous union may be admitted into the community of the Lord, nor any descendent of his even to the tenth generation.” (Deuteronomy 23:3)

 

[Arcadius]

31. (New American Standard) Give strong drink to him who is perishing, And wine to him whose life is bitter. Let him drink and forget his poverty And remember his trouble no more. (Proverbs 31:6-7)

32. (New Living Translation) “Each day prepare your bread as you would barley cakes. While all the people are watching, bake it over a fire using dried human dung as fuel and then eat the bread. For this is what the LORD says: Israel will eat defiled bread in the Gentile lands, where I will banish them!" Then I said, "O Sovereign LORD, must I be defiled by using human dung? For I have never been defiled before. From the time I was a child until now I have never eaten any animal that died of sickness or that I found dead. And I have never eaten any of the animals that our laws forbid." "All right," the LORD said. "You may bake your bread with cow dung instead of human dung." (Ezekiel 4:12-15)

33. "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law (sic) against her mother in law(sic). And a man's foes shall be they of his own household."

34. (New American Standard) Again, the devil took Him to a very high mountain and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory (I forgot the Earth was flat in those days); (Matthew 4:8)

35. (New International Version) In the cities of the nations the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy them — the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites — as the LORD your God has commanded you. (Deuteronomy 20:16-17)

36. (New American Standard) If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltiness is upon them.

37. (New American Standard) "If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13)

38. (New Living Translation) O Babylon, you will be destroyed. Happy is the one who pays you back for what you have done to us. Happy is the one who takes your babies and smashes them against the rocks! (Psalm 137:8-9)

39. (New Living Translation) “About the same time I realized that some of the men of Judah had married women from Ashdod, Ammon, and Moab. Even worse, half their children spoke in the language of Ashdod or some other people and could not speak the language of Judah at all. So I confronted them and called down curses on them. I beat some of them and pulled out their hair. I made them swear before God that they would not let their children intermarry with the pagan people of the land. "Wasn't this exactly what led King Solomon of Israel into sin?" I demanded. "There was no king from any nation who could compare to him, and God loved him and made him king over all Israel. But even he was led into sin by his foreign wives. How could you even think of committing this sinful deed and acting unfaithfully toward God by marrying foreign women?” (Nehemiah 13:23-27)

40. And the greatest bible quote ever, that proves just how irrefutable God's will is:You shall not round off the side-growth of your heads nor harm the edges of your beard.You shall not make any cuts in your body for the dead nor make any tattoo marks on yourselves: I am the LORD.

All I have to say there is a lot of genocide, mass murder, sexism, homophobia, bigotry, chauvinism, incest, child abuse, child murder, and racism in this book, all of which god seems to support, accept for incest. Oh, and I didn't put the quotes about unicorns in because I find this funnier, http://www.unicorns.co.za/unicorn-facts/unicorns-in-the-bible.html

 

[scourge99]

Arcadius,

You are fighting a battle you cannot win except perhaps against staunch biblical literalists and even then there are ways for them to squirm. The bible (or as I like to call it in this case: the Big Book of Multiple Choice) can be interpreted many different ways. From literal, to metaphorical, to mythical, etc. And christians do NOT agree on which passages are or are not literal. Most tend to claim that Jesus miracles are literal but that talking donkeys and snakes and mythical gardens are not.

The real problem is there is no way to nail a Christian down regarding contradictions within the text or contradictions with reality because when you are dealing with supernaturalism and "faith" then the door is open to invent/imagine any explanation as a response. Their claims are unfalsifiable.

You are better of just avoiding the Bible and debating Christians about how verifiable reality conflicts with their unverifiable beliefs.

 

[Arcadius]

Arcadius,

You are fighting a battle you cannot win except perhaps against staunch biblical literalists and even then there are ways for them to squirm. The bible (or as I like to call it in this case: the Big Book of Multiple Choice) can be interpreted many different ways. From literal, to metaphorical, to mythical, etc. And christians do NOT agree on which passages are or are not literal. Most tend to claim that Jesus miracles are literal but that talking donkeys and snakes and mythical gardens are not.

The real problem is there is no way to nail a Christian down regarding contradictions within the text or contradictions with reality because when you are dealing with supernaturalism and "faith" then the door is open to invent/imagine any explanation as a response. Their claims are unfalsifiable.

You are better of just avoiding the Bible and debating Christians about how verifiable reality conflicts with their unverifiable beliefs.

I more posted that to exemplify some of the morals the bible teaches, and as a joke. I know everyone's just going to say it's all out of context. I really want to see how you can misinterpret this, "I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man. She must be quiet." I see bitches need to shut up pretty well.

 

[scourge99]

I more posted that to exemplify some of the morals the bible teaches, and as a joke. I know everyone's just going to say it's all out of context. I really want to see how you can misinterpret this, "I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man. She must be quiet."

And I'm telling you that it can be spun and interpreted in a seemingly infinite amount of ways. It all comes down to verification and you can't verify a "correct interpretation" of a text such as the Bible.

To answer your question, the response I have heard is this letter was from Paul to a church where the people were being too rowdy and gossipy so its not an edict against women in general just a response to the behavior in that church/area.

You see how easy that was? I can just makeup an answer, provide no basis for it except that its not overly fantastic or absurd, and PRESTO, I solved the problem. It doesn't matter whether its actually true or not. All that matters to the Christian is that it supports their desired conclusion: in this case that the Bible/Paul isn't a misogynist.

 

[Arcadius]

And I'm telling you that it can be spun and interpreted in a seemingly infinite amount of ways. It all comes down to verification and you can't verify a "correct interpretation" of a text such as the Bible.

To answer your question, the response I have heard is this letter was from Paul to a church where the people were being too rowdy and gossipy so its not an edict against women in general just a response to the behavior in that church/area.

You see how easy that was? I can just makeup an answer, provide no basis for it except that its not overly fantastic or absurd, and PRESTO, I solved the problem. It doesn't matter whether its actually true or not. All that matters to the Christian is that it supports their desired conclusion: in this case that the Bible/Paul isn't a misogynist.

That's funny because, "The women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, just as the Law also says. If they desire to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is improper for a woman to speak in church". I'd still like to see the explanations. I know you can't convince a Christian that the bible is anything but the irrefutable word of God, and is just and moral simply by the relation. I also want to see how the part bashing homosexuals is literal, but the part bashing women isn't.

 

[scourge99]

That's funny because, "The women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, just as the Law also says. If they desire to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is improper for a woman to speak in church". I'd still like to see the explanations. I know you can't convince a Christian that the bible is anything but the irrefutable word of God, and is just and moral simply by the relation. I also want to see how the part bashing homosexuals is literal, but the part bashing women isn't.

Go do an internet search with that passage. You'll find many spins and interpretations.

 

[Arcadius]

Go do an internet search with that passage. You'll find many spins and interpretations.

Christ. I just saw a guy with a page long argument, about how it's not true because gender doesn't apply in the eyes of God. Just beam me up Scotty, please beam me up.

 

[scourge99]

Christ. I just saw a guy with a page long argument, about how it's not true because gender doesn't apply in the eyes of God. Just beam me up Scotty, please beam me up.

It only gets nuttier and more contrived with the crazier problems. For example, the trinity.

Its been 2000 years and christian theology is still changing.

 

[Arcadius]

It only gets nuttier and more contrived with the crazier problems. For example, the trinity.

Its been 2000 years and christian theology is still changing.

Bill: I don't understand why God can't just be saying what it looks like he's saying.

Joe: Well... if you turn your head at a 30 degree angle, and then stand on one leg, the the real truth becomes apparent.

Bill: Oh, I see it now.

 

[chuck schmidt]

Surely there is a far more intelligent species in the universe for him to make his personal play things than the creatures that inhabit this planet. Of course the bible was written in a time in which no one took this into account, because they didn't know there was anything but the Earth and Heavens.

Agreed. What makes you think that "we" on what we call "Earth" are the only ones?

My view of a godlike being would be a creature that is omniscient, therefore knows about every little action that is done on Earth,

That's quite the magnificent intellect, isn't it?

but finds it irrelevant as it is so significant.

Sorry, but I lost the meaning of the last half of the sentence.

I also don't believe a being like this would be burdened by a linear perception of time, therefore our civilization has already begun and ended an infinite of times.

Neither do I. A great many theologians from all faiths agree. That is one of the great mysteries. Einstein was one of the first to make public the scientific possibility that time is not a constant.

The perception of God we have today is the very essence of bringing divine beings to our level.

"We?" Since when is there one universal theology? Even within Christianity?

We give god human emotions and human priorities, we even assume that he loves us and only us. I think that is the very pinnacle of human arrogance.

I agree that the Christian view of 'only our way' is too narrow. A "loving" God is more forgiving, IMO. Culture forms much more of theology than most people credit. If we study all cultures and all religions we probably start coming closer to reality, but still I doubt that we can ever fully "get it" in this life.

 

[Arcadius]

Agreed. What makes you think that "we" on what we call "Earth" are the only ones?

I don't. That's what the religions in the topic think. I just think that we live on such an insignificant planet, and we're such an insignificant species, that it is illogical to think such a being would hold us in such high regard. We may in fact be extremely lowly creatures for all we know. Out of the infinite of different species that could span all of existence, it's ridiculous to believe there is not one far grander than us. I think the belief that such a being is interested in us is very pompous.

That's quite the magnificent intellect, isn't it?

It's just my personal speculation.

Sorry, but I lost the meaning of the last half of the sentence.

I'm not seeing what's not to get.

Neither do I. A great many theologians from all faiths agree. That is one of the great mysteries. Einstein was one of the first to make public the scientific possibility that time is not a constant.

We obviously apply human perception of time to God.

"We?" Since when is there one universal theology? Even within Christianity?

Perhaps that term was a little too vague and generalized. I'm really just talking about the great beings who are always watching interacting, and caring about humans. I think that's a belief that goes through many different theologies. We give them human feelings. We give them human perceptions.

I agree that the Christian view of 'only our way' is too narrow. A "loving" God is more forgiving, IMO. Culture forms much more of theology than most people credit. If we study all cultures and all religions we probably start coming closer to reality, but still I doubt that we can ever fully "get it" in this life.

That's something that stretches far beyond Christianity. God loving us is a very egotistical assumption. There are some interesting theologies. I disagree. I think we can learn nothing about the supernatural from human beliefs. I also find the concept of a soul and an afterlife ridiculous.

 

[celticwar17]

No, I don't believe that Judaic Monotheism is detrimental to society. I think militant atheism and the repression of religious freedom is, however. We can look at atheistic societies and atheist governments like the USSR, communist China, and others who have killed tens of millions. Failures lie in human nature. Personally, I feel all faiths besides Christianity is detrimental to society in that other faiths lead people to believe a lie, but politically I also believe that Judaic Monotheism isn't detrimental to society. I believe it's beneficial and many charities and followers of Judaic Monotheistic religions are very charitable and promote peace.

Hmmmm wow i think i changed my opinion after reading this, huh that doesn't happen very often.

 

[celticwar17]

I think it's not the best of the world religion's for society to based on because of it's intolerance and activist nature, but i think in the end it does more good then harm. Atheistic societies have proven to be just as detrimental and its debatable that they are even worse. (USSR, China). Not saying that each can't be bad, just that there are examples of both.

But i believe in the end that Buddhism is actually better for society, but i don't think you should tell people what and what not to believe or establish. There is very very rarely a violent Buddhist state, and usually when it is; it's because its not very developed so it's easier to be taken advantage of my sinister human beings. Only society i can think of that could be debatable is the Shogun and Samurai Shinto Buddhism society, but then again that was during a very medieval time. And at it's ideal it is very peaceful, only using violence if it is an absolute need.

 

[scourge99]

I think it's not the best of the world religion's for society to based on because of it's intolerance and activist nature, but i think in the end it does more good then harm. Atheistic societies have proven to be just as detrimental and its debatable that they are even worse. (USSR, China). Not saying that each can't be bad, just that there are examples of both.

Please explain how one gets from:
1) I do not believe there is a god
to
2) Therefore communism/genocide/democracy/etc is best.

There is no link between atheism and anything else. Atheism is NOT a worldview. It has no tenants, dogma, or doctrine. It is a single position on a single issue: do you believe in god(s)?

Christianity, however, DOES have tenants, dogma, and doctrines. You CAN get a worldview from Christianity.

The argument Digsbe puts forth has been refuted over and over again. People like him ignore this inconvenience while proselytizing and repeat their claims because it convinces the ignorant. It convinces people who haven't heard the argument before or haven't heard the refutation. This argument has been abandoned by most educated theologians. Its only the dishonest and liars who continue to present it as though its reasonable.

 

[celticwar17]

Please explain how one gets from:
1) I do not believe there is a god
to
2) Therefore communism/genocide/democracy/etc is best.

There is no link between atheism and anything else. Atheism is NOT a worldview. It has no tenants, dogma, or doctrine. It is a single position on a single issue: do you believe in god(s)?

Christianity, however, DOES have tenants, dogma, and doctrines. You CAN get a worldview from Christianity.

The argument Digsbe puts forth has been refuted over and over again. People like him ignore this inconvenience while proselytizing and repeat their claims because it convinces the ignorant. It convinces people who haven't heard the argument before or haven't heard the refutation. This argument has been abandoned by most educated theologians. Its only the dishonest and liars who continue to present it as though its reasonable.

Wait, What?

Communism IS an atheistic government, and it DOES shape society in very detrimental ways, at least in my opinion. Communism is an atheistic government and society because it has ZERO religious tolerance; practice of any religion you get sent to jail, or worse.

My point is, is that a Atheist society can be just as detrimental as a Christian one. This is why its just a human issue not a religious issue.

And what i was saying before is i dont think Christianity is the best of religions for society, but it has equal possibility of becoming bad as an Atheistic society would.

But i don't think this is the case with a Buddhist society, because of the reasons i mentioned before.

"Please explain how one gets from:
1) I do not believe there is a god
to
2) Therefore communism/genocide/democracy/etc is best."

You fail to realize this can be the same thing for Christianity... duh. Just because someone is a Catholic doesn't mean they want a pope state, or an islam an Islam state, or an Episcopalian a monarchy. There are variances amongst everyone just like an Atheist that claims genetic superiority or forming of an Utopian society free of religion (Communism). Are all atheist doing that? no, but they are definitely a lot out there, and even powerful leaders.

 

[Arcadius]

Wait, What?

Communism IS an atheistic government, and it DOES shape society in very detrimental ways, at least in my opinion. Communism is an atheistic government and society because it has ZERO religious tolerance; practice of any religion you get sent to jail, or worse.

My point is, is that a Atheist society can be just as detrimental as a Christian one. This is why its just a human issue not a religious issue.

And what i was saying before is i dont think Christianity is the best of religions for society, but it has equal possibility of becoming bad as an Atheistic society would.

But i don't think this is the case with a Buddhist society, because of the reasons i mentioned before.

"Please explain how one gets from:
1) I do not believe there is a god
to
2) Therefore communism/genocide/democracy/etc is best."

You fail to realize this can be the same thing for Christianity... duh. Just because someone is a Catholic doesn't mean they want a pope state, or an islam an Islam state, or an Episcopalian a monarchy. There are variances amongst everyone just like an Atheist that claims genetic superiority or forming of an Utopian society free of religion (Communism). Are all atheist doing that? no, but they are definitely a lot out there, and even powerful leaders.

com·mu·nism   
[kom-yuh-niz-uhm] Show IPA
–noun
1.
a theory or system of social organization based on the holding of all property in common, actual ownership being ascribed to the community as a whole or to the state.
2.
( often initial capital letter ) a system of social organization in which all economic and social activity is controlled by a totalitarian state dominated by a single and self-perpetuating political party.
3.
( initial capital letter ) the principles and practices of the Communist party.
4.
communalism.

a·the·ism   
[ey-thee-iz-uhm] Show IPA
–noun
1.
the doctrine or belief that there is no god.
2.
disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings.
Origin:
1580–90; < Greek áthe ( os ) godless + -ism

—Related forms
an·ti·a·the·ism, adjective, noun
pro·a·the·ism, noun

Atheism and Communism are two completely different things. An atheistic society is just a society where the majority does not believe in god. Sending people to jail for practicing religion isn't exactly mandatory. I really don't feel like getting into this exact same argument, and saying the exact same thing again, so if you want to hear my argument on the matter look at my other posts.

 

[scourge99]

an Atheist that claims genetic superiority or forming of an Utopian society free of religion (Communism)

...

Communism IS an atheistic government

No, it isn't.
Communism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Explain how not believing in any gods shapes a society in ANY particular way? Societies are based on what people POSITIVELY believe. Not what they do NOT believe. It requires an ideology or worldview which atheism, by itself, CANNOT provide. There is no "atheist ideology" or "atheist worldview". However, there is a generic Christian worldview.

Communism demands and it DOES shape society in very detrimental ways, at least in my opinion. Communism is an atheistic government and society because it has ZERO religious tolerance; practice of any religion you get sent to jail, or worse.

SOME communists may be ANTI-THEISTIC but communism nor atheism necessitate ANTI-THEISM.

My point is, is that a Atheist society can be just as detrimental as a Christian one. This is why its just a human issue not a religious issue.

And what i was saying before is i dont think Christianity is the best of religions for society, but it has equal possibility of becoming bad as an Atheistic society would.

I agree.

The issue is not religion, per say. It is the type of beliefs and ideologies we see within fundamentalism, whether it be relgiious or not. It just happens that such bad and evil things are often held in high regard within relgions rather than despised:
1) faith and dogma
2) unquestioning obedience
3) credulity to holy-book tales and authority figures
4) a disregard for evidence and reason

Please explain how one gets from:
1) I do not believe there is a god
to
2) Therefore communism/genocide/democracy/etc is best."

You fail to realize this can be the same thing for Christianity... duh. Just because someone is a Catholic doesn't mean they want a pope state, or an islam an Islam state, or an Episcopalian a monarchy. There are variances amongst everyone just like an Atheist that claims genetic superiority or forming of an Utopian society free of religion (Communism). Are all atheist doing that? no, but they are definitely a lot out there, and even powerful leaders.

A strictly Catholic person's worldview is different than a strictly Protestant's. And even then there are differences because most people do not hold exactly identical beliefs. But MANY more of the beliefs are similar or the same. Its what makes Protestants and Catholics both "Christians" rather than Muslim or Jewish.

The main point is that you cant get a worldview from atheism alone. You can't get a worldview from "I don't believe in god(s)". However, you can get one from, "I believe the Bible is the word of God".

 

[Hicup]

No, I don't believe that Judaic Monotheism is detrimental to society. I think militant atheism and the repression of religious freedom is, however. We can look at atheistic societies and atheist governments like the USSR, communist China, and others who have killed tens of millions. Failures lie in human nature. Personally, I feel all faiths besides Christianity is detrimental to society in that other faiths lead people to believe a lie, but politically I also believe that Judaic Monotheism isn't detrimental to society. I believe it's beneficial and many charities and followers of Judaic Monotheistic religions are very charitable and promote peace.

I'm not a religious person, but unlike many other non religious people, I do not fear it.


Tim-

 

[celticwar17]

com·mu·nism   
[kom-yuh-niz-uhm] Show IPA
–noun
1.
a theory or system of social organization based on the holding of all property in common, actual ownership being ascribed to the community as a whole or to the state.
2.
( often initial capital letter ) a system of social organization in which all economic and social activity is controlled by a totalitarian state dominated by a single and self-perpetuating political party.
3.
( initial capital letter ) the principles and practices of the Communist party.
4.
communalism.

a·the·ism   
[ey-thee-iz-uhm] Show IPA
–noun
1.
the doctrine or belief that there is no god.
2.
disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings.
Origin:
1580–90; < Greek áthe ( os ) godless + -ism

—Related forms
an·ti·a·the·ism, adjective, noun
pro·a·the·ism, noun

Atheism and Communism are two completely different things. An atheistic society is just a society where the majority does not believe in god. Sending people to jail for practicing religion isn't exactly mandatory. I really don't feel like getting into this exact same argument, and saying the exact same thing again, so if you want to hear my argument on the matter look at my other posts.

wow... i know that.... don't point out the obvious. what I was saying is that Communism IS an atheistic society. NOT that all atheistic societies are communistic just like how not all Islam societies are an Islam state or Catholic a Pope state.

...im disappointed in your comprehension skills

 

[celticwar17]

No, it isn't.
Communism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Explain how not believing in any gods shapes a society in ANY particular way? Societies are based on what people POSITIVELY believe. Not what they do NOT believe. It requires an ideology or worldview which atheism, by itself, CANNOT provide. There is no "atheist ideology" or "atheist worldview". However, there is a generic Christian worldview.
You can't get a worldview from "I don't believe in god(s)". However, you can get one from, "I believe the Bible is the word of God".

The two largest Communist Societies were Atheistic. They are majority examples, not the what is only possible.

AND YOU CAN get a world-view from "I don't believe in GOD". Just like how the Philosophies of Communism and Nationalism came about. From that belief you can lead to believe in no god-given rights(no-one has rights), you can believe there is no such thing as evil, you can believe in purification of the gene pools in order to better the human race. THESE are examples of how an atheistic society can lead to things JUST as detrimental as Christianity would.

 

[celticwar17]

No, it isn't.
Communism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Quoted From Karl Marx himself
"Religious distress is at the same time the expression of real distress and the protest against
real distress. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world,
just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. It is the opium of the people."