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Is it Time To Leave Iraq?

Squawker

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I guess this question isn’t for the people who didn’t think we shouldn’t have gone there in the first place, but how about the rest of you? I worry about the ability of the Iraqi’s to maintain order, but perhaps they will rise to the level demanded of them if we leave.
Jun 12, 4:39 PM (ET)
RALEIGH, N.C. (AP) - A Republican congressman who voted for the Iraq war said Sunday that "we've done about as much as we can do" in the country and that the reason for invading Iraq has proven false.
Rep. Walter Jones of North Carolina will be among the lawmakers introducing legislation this week calling for a timetable for the withdrawal of American troops in Iraq.
"When I look at the number of men and women who have been killed - it's almost 1,700 now, in addition to close to 12,000 have been severely wounded - and I just feel that the reason of going in for weapons of mass destruction, the ability of the Iraqis to make a nuclear weapon, that's all been proven that it was never there," Jones said on ABC's "This Week."
President Bush has said any timetable for withdrawal would encourage insurgents to wait for the foreign troops to leave, but Jones said he believed Iraqis can defend their own country.
His stance leaves Jones sided with Sen. Ted Kennedy of Massachusetts, the most prominent Democrat calling for a timetable to leave Iraq. Jones said he had not discussed the issue with Kennedy.
Two years ago, Jones helped lead an effort to make sure Capitol Hill cafeterias retooled their menus to advertise "freedom fries" instead of french fries to protest France's opposition to the war.
Jones said he began changing his mind about the war after attending the funeral in April 2003 for Sgt. Michael Bitz, 31, who was killed in the southern city of Nasiriyah. He recalled that Bitz's widow read the last letter she received from her husband.
"And that really has been on my mind and my heart ever since," he said.
Jones, whose district includes Camp Lejeune and Cherry Point, has written condolence letters to the families of more than 1,300 service people killed in Iraq, and posters outside his congressional office show the faces of those killed.
Source
 

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Last week some Iraqi leaders ask to stay on a while more stating their not ready to fight the terrorists alone yet. We will know when the time comes. More than likely after a permanent constitution is ratified. Wow. Constitution, ratified, elections, freedom. Just what sort of path to destruction have us imperialistic capitalists sent these "I'd rather stick to the old ways of beating women with sticks" folks on down? To esoteric you say? Then how about when we start getting some sweet deals on oil.

Free the Arab women. (Rumored to have been heard snickering, "those Saudi's blew it, now we get to be the favorite child tee-hee. Oil, get your cheap oil here".)
 
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Jack

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Ever since the elections in Iraq the violence has gotten worse...What is the US strategy?is there a strategy?either way it's not working.Rumsfled endorsed by Bush invaded Iraq on the cheap, ignoring Powells doctrine of overwhelming force, the US is training Iraqi forces? wtf, whose training the insurgents? I'd take the insurgents coach any day. The answer is not to let things keep going the way they are because this will go on for years.

The US should either pull out now or double the troops and diplomatic efforts.
 

Squawker

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Welcome to DP Jack :2wave:

Ever since the elections in Iraq the violence has gotten worse
If we leave too early it may become total caos. That is a problem, so I have mixed feeling about it. It would be nice to bring our boys home though.
 

GottaHurt

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Jack said:
Ever since the elections in Iraq the violence has gotten worse
Yes indeed, the insurgents are now taking a beating from the Iraqi people.


Jack said:
What is the US strategy?
  1. To topple Saddam using military force.
  2. To help set up free elections.
  3. To hold free elections.
  4. To train Iraqi citizens in civil and military affairs.
  5. To help draft an Iraqi Constitution.
  6. Exit Iraq when #'s 1-5 are met, and/or when the newly elected Iraqi government asks us to.
Jack said:
Either way it's not working.
  1. Check
  2. Check
  3. Check
  4. Check
  5. Check
  6. Exit Iraq when #'s 1-5 are met, and/or when the newly elected Iraqi government asks us to.
Patience is a virtue.A solid gameplan executed to perfection quells all rhetoric.


Jack said:
Rumsfled endorsed by Bush invaded Iraq on the cheap, ignoring Powells doctrine of overwhelming force.
Powells doctrine of overwhelming force? Outdated thinking, as we witnessed a smaller, quicker mobile force capture Baghdad.

Jack said:
The US is training Iraqi forces?
Yes.

Jack said:
WTF, whose training the insurgents?
The same malcontents who think freedom and democracy are evil, and that brutal dictatorships are the way to govern.

Jack said:
I'd take the insurgents coach any day.
Then you'd be on the losing side.

Jack said:
The answer is not to let things keep going the way they are because this will go on for years.
As Bush has said from the very beginning, we will stay until the job is completed.

Jack said:
The US should either pull out now or double the troops and diplomatic efforts.
Pulling out now would accomplish what?
Diplomatic efforts? With who?The insurgents?

Perhaps you'd like to approach them with hat in hand. :cool:
 

GarzaUK

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Well the Iraqi resistance appears in waves, which suggest a wave of recruitment every couple of months. Which suggest if the terrorists are dumb will only last for a year or two.

It's safe to say that the Neo-cons have learnt from this war that things do not go as planned or predicted, that they can not turn the world as they see fit. That is why the US has turned to the EU to help with Iran.

War or threat of war will never tame terrorism. I'm afraid that is the unfortunate truth.
 

GottaHurt

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GarzaUK said:
Well the Iraqi resistance appears in waves, which suggest a wave of recruitment every couple of months.
Iraqi resistance? The Iraqi people have welcomed us with open arms and are happily enjoying their new found freedoms.

The resistance is from insurgents, via Syria and Iran.Very few are of Iraqi nationality.

GarzaUK said:
It's safe to say that the Neo-cons have learnt from this war that things do not go as planned or predicted.
We gleaned that knowledge from the War of Independace.Cornwallace didn't though ;)

GarzaUK said:
That is why the US has turned to the EU to help with Iran.
Another EU fairy tale to make themselves feel important.The EU might want to focus on their unemployment rates before those economies completely collapse, and the American taxpayer has to bail them out, again.
 

GarzaUK

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GottaHurt said:
Iraqi resistance? The Iraqi people have welcomed us with open arms and are happily enjoying their new found freedoms.

The resistance is from insurgents, via Syria and Iran.Very few are of Iraqi nationality.
Prove it from and UNBIASED source


GottaHurt said:
We gleaned that knowledge from the War of Independace.Cornwallace didn't though ;)
Yawn, what's that? A reference to my ancestors over 200 years dead.

GottaHurt said:
Another EU fairy tale to make themselves feel important.The EU might want to focus on their unemployment rates before those economies completely collapse, and the American taxpayer has to bail them out, again.
I believe it was your President knocking on our door trying to make amends.
 

GottaHurt

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GarzaUK said:
Prove it from and UNBIASED source
Perhaps you missed the televised elections, with 50%+ voter turnout.
Not even suicide bombers hitting the polling stations could turn away a very determined Iraqi population.

It's daily news, from any news source showing the nationalities of the captured insurgents.Do your own homework

GarzaUK said:
Yawn, what's that? A reference to my ancestors over 200 years dead.
Need I school you in your history as well?

GarzaUK said:
I believe it was your President knocking on our door trying to make amends.:spin:
The Europeans just can't seem to accept the fact that they are no longer world powers, they're merely pawns in our game of chess.
 

teacher

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Jack said:
Ever since the elections in Iraq the violence has gotten worse...What is the US strategy?is there a strategy?either way it's not working.Rumsfled endorsed by Bush invaded Iraq on the cheap, ignoring Powells doctrine of overwhelming force, the US is training Iraqi forces? wtf, whose training the insurgents? I'd take the insurgents coach any day. The answer is not to let things keep going the way they are because this will go on for years.

The US should either pull out now or double the troops and diplomatic efforts.
You don't know your name. And GottaHurt handed you your ass.
 

GarzaUK

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GottaHurt said:
Perhaps you missed the televised elections, with 50%+ voter turnout.
Not even suicide bombers hitting the polling stations could turn away a very determined Iraqi population.

It's daily news, from any news source showing the nationalities of the captured insurgents.Do your own homework

Give me a link! :roll:
GottaHurt said:
Need I school you in your history as well?

No, but what is the point of making fun of Cornwallis? That was over 200 years ago, get over it. I could start on how Vietnam kicked your ass, but I'm not going to.
GottaHurt said:
The Europeans just can't seem to accept the fact that they are no longer world powers, they're merely pawns in our game of chess.
That's strange, when I was born in 1984 Maggie Thatcher was in power and my country was an absolute mess. I have no delusions of granduer in my country's part.

If we are indeed pawns, you don't seem to control us very well. And the fact you disrespectally mentioned us as pawns I will put down to pure arrogance on your part.
 

GottaHurt

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GarzaUK said:
Give me a link
No! Do your own homework, it's not that hard to do multiple Google searches and then cross reference, really, it's not.

The reason I say this, is because in your earlier post, you demanded that I provide you with an UNBIASED news source....lol....when YOU can find an UNBIASED one, please share your discovery with the rest of us.

GarzaUK said:
No, but what is the point of making fun of Cornwallis?
It was a tongue in cheek response(thus the wink emoticon) to your arrogant assumption that the current US administration, and the current US military leadership are just now learning to understand about the difficulties of planning and executing a battleplan.

A bunch of lowly colonist defeating the mighty and far superior British forces lead by Cornwallace himself.We haven't looked back since.

GarzaUK said:
I could start on how Vietnam kicked your ass, but I'm not going to.
You could if it makes you feel better, but it's irrelevant to this thread.

GarzaUK said:
If we are indeed pawns, you don't seem to control us very well.
Really.Tony Blair putting his career on the line,Parliment in a complete uproar and the people of GB protesting in the streets.Yet we deployed your British troops to cover our flank, and they're still pulling security details, as we speak.

GarzaUK said:
And the fact you disrespectally mentioned us as pawns I will put down to pure arrogance on your part.
You can pull up your knickers now laddy. The beatings will continue until morale improves.
 

GottaHurt

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galenrox said:
Dude, one of the things on this forum is we site our sources.
Normally I do, but the Queen Mum there was tryin' to put a stiff upper lip on me, so I obliged her with me willy instead.
 

GarzaUK

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GottaHurt said:
Normally I do, but the Queen Mum there was tryin' to put a stiff upper lip on me, so I obliged her with me willy instead.
And Americans wonder why they are disliked so much.

What an over reation, just because I would I've like a link to your post. Drama queens.
 

GottaHurt

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GarzaUK said:
And Americans wonder why they are disliked so much.
The thing that strikes me funny, is that the press and internet forums are the only outlets that hammer this home.I've never heard this brought up in day to day conversations, whether at work, home or in a social environment.

What's even funnier, is when it's time for monetary handouts, every country around the globe is johnny on the spot to recieve their US Foreign Aid.

GarzaUK said:
What an over reation, just because I would I've like a link to your post.
Don't play the innocent, you demanded an UNBIASED source.I challenged you to find one, and share it with the rest of us, when you found it.

GarzaUK said:
Drama Queens
Your new sig? ;)
 

teacher

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GarzaUK said:
And Americans wonder why they are disliked so much.
Oh yea, like you guys are the toast of the friggin world. Not long ago you guys were what we are accused of being. Imperialists. Maybe a nice rant would make you feel better. Or a Top ten list. Yes.......


From the home office in Tampa..

Top Ten reasons why Garza UK thinks the world hates the US and not Brittan.

10.They say bumbershoot. We say umbrella.
9. Of our two leaders who defeated communism: The world held door open for Thatcher.(A girl). Reagan kicked the friggin door down.
8.Only they know how to spell the color you get when black and white is mixed.
7.They play fair at the Olympics-we just win.
6.GarzaUK doesn't know when they're being insulted. Island monkey.
5.World loves a queen. Fears a President.
4. They take over countries then lose them. We take over countries then give them back. (Lets the beaten regain pride the Brit way).
3. World not intimidated by men wearing wigs. Scared sh*tless of GySgt in BDUs.
2. They think they're protected by the English channel when we only have the friggin ATLANTIC OCEAN.

and the number one reason why Garza UK thinks the world hate the US and not Brittan

1.Their Queen smokes fags. Our fags smoke queens.
 
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Jack said:
wtf, whose training the insurgents? I'd take the insurgents coach any day.

The US should either pull out now or double the troops and diplomatic efforts.
If we pull out now the infant democracy in Iraq is an easy target for terrorists. The terrorists will topple the new nation and another Sadamm like tyrant will take over and we will have to repeat the whole process over again. If we send double troops over that will be just one more thing for the libs to cry about.
And the insurjents don't need training. All they do is strap a bomb to there chest.
 
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GarzaUK said:
Well the Iraqi resistance appears in waves, which suggest a wave of recruitment every couple of months

War or threat of war will never tame terrorism. I'm afraid that is the unfortunate truth.
The Iraqi resistence is non-existant. The iraqi's want us there. The insurgents are the ones who are resisting.
Well if fighting terrorism doesn't work what will? let me guess diplomatic efforts?
 

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guns_God_glory said:
The Iraqi resistence is non-existant. The iraqi's want us there. The insurgents are the ones who are resisting.
Well if fighting terrorism doesn't work what will? let me guess diplomatic efforts?
Jun. 11, 2005 - "a recent internal poll conducted for the U.S.-led coalition indicated that nearly 45 percent of the Iraqi population supports the insurgent attacks"

http://www.azcentral.com/news/artic...q-assess11.html
 

Simon W. Moon

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GottaHurt said:
Powells doctrine of overwhelming force? Outdated thinking, as we witnessed a smaller, quicker mobile force capture Baghdad.
We are still fighting the Iraq war. It's not over yet. As per Mr. Wolfowitz:
WOLFOWITZ: By the way, it's not insurgency. An insurgency implies something that rose up afterwards. This is the same enemy that butchered Iraqis for 35 years, that fought us up until the fall of Baghdad and continues to fight afterwards. It was led by Saddam Hussein up until his capture in December. It's been led, in part, by his No. 2 or 3, Izzat Ibrahim al Douri, since then. It's been led by Zarqawi, who was a terrorist working for bin Laden in Afghanistan, who fled to Iraq in 2002. It's not an insurgency, in the sense of an uprising. It is a continuation of the war by people who never quit.
Since the war's not over yet, it seems premature to use it as an example of how the doctrine of overwhelming force is outdated.


GottaHurt said:
Diplomatic efforts? With who?The insurgents?
Perhaps you'd like to approach them with hat in hand. :cool:
Rumsfeld: U.S. Met With Iraq Insurgents

When asked on NBC's "Meet the Press" about the report of the two meetings, Rumsfeld said, "Oh, I would doubt it. I think there have probably been many more than that."
"They're not going to try to bring in the people with blood on their hands, for sure, but they're certainly reaching out continuously, and we help to facilitate those from time to time."
"There's no one negotiating with Zarqawi or the people that are out chopping people's heads off," he said
I wonder why we're negiotiating with these peole and calling them Iraqis if what you say is true that they are all from countries other than Iraq.
Perhaps you're mistaken.
 

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Courage is fear holding on a minute longer.
-General George S. Patton
 

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Squawker said:
I guess this question isn’t for the people who didn’t think we shouldn’t have gone there in the first place, but how about the rest of you? I worry about the ability of the Iraqi’s to maintain order, but perhaps they will rise to the level demanded of them if we leave.

Source
I think the new government will just get dragged into the street and shot if the US vacates this early. They are not strong enough to protect themselves yet.
 

akyron

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teacher said:
Oh yea, like you guys are the toast of the friggin world. Not long ago you guys were what we are accused of being. Imperialists. Maybe a nice rant would make you feel better. Or a Top ten list. Yes.......


From the home office in Tampa..

Top Ten reasons why Garza UK thinks the world hates the US and not Brittan.

10.They say bumbershoot. We say umbrella.
9. Of our two leaders who defeated communism: The world held door open for Thatcher.(A girl). Reagan kicked the friggin door down.
8.Only they know how to spell the color you get when black and white is mixed.
7.They play fair at the Olympics-we just win.
6.GarzaUK doesn't know when they're being insulted. Island monkey.
5.World loves a queen. Fears a President.
4. They take over countries then lose them. We take over countries then give them back. (Lets the beaten regain pride the Brit way).
3. World not intimidated by men wearing wigs. Scared *****less of GySgt in BDUs.
2. They think they're protected by the English channel when we only have the friggin ATLANTIC OCEAN.

and the number one reason why Garza UK thinks the world hate the US and not Brittan

1.Their Queen smokes fags. Our fags smoke queens.


How long does it take you to make those?
 
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