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Is it possible that they really don't understand why John Kerry lost?

doctor1

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Sorry for this rant, but when I woke up this morning, my clock/radio was playing ABC News on WBAP. I like WBAP, but I cringe when I hear ABC's so-called news. The news story that really got me to thinking stated that the Democrats couldn't understand why they lost. I find that hard to believe. Is it possible that they really don't understand why John Kerry lost?

Personally, I like to think of voting for President as if I were hiring somebody for a job... a very important job. Because it is an important job, I'd want the best person for that position. Ideally, I'd want somebody to do that job with my full confidence that they would always do what was in the best interest of what I have made them responsible for. I'd have such confidence in them, that they wouldn't need to ask me if I approved of the job that they were doing for about four years.

I think that the Democrats really missed it on all of these points, and more. First of all, did John Kerry best represent what his party believed in? Does John Kerry represent anything? Outside of saying that he'd do everything different than the way the President Bush did, you never really got a sense of what he really would've done. He always professed that he had a plan, but never laid out any details. In fact, he said "I have a plan" so much, that if Martin Luther King were alive, he'd sue John Kerry for plagiarism.

The Democrats spent so much effort to make George W. Bush look bad, but they never really spent any effort to make you like John Kerry. I suspect that if the Democrats had pursued the same strategy, but put up "Stew Pedd" (Thanks Sean Hannity) instead of John Kerry, the results would have been the same. Their candidate and his surrogates were more harmful than good to their campaign. If it weren't for the efforts that they tried to make John Kerry more appealing, and the people that he surrounded himself with telling us what they really think of us, John Kerry might have stood a better chance of winning. In other words, if John Kerry had gone into hiding, refused all interviews, and forbade anyone to speak on his behalf, the Democrats might have one.

Why do I say this? The last few days, it got scary for me. It was a close race, but only because most of the potential Democrat voters couldn't be swayed from what their party was telling them. That is just a scary thought. That many people unable to see things for what they really were. That many people willing to throw away all that we truly hold dear as Americans, just to get some "power"? Apparently so. Now that is a scary thought!

Luckily for us, the liberals by definition are so vasilating in their search for their own core beliefs, that they might not be able to present a good candidate for a long time. A party that thinks they need to re-invent their candidates half-way through each election needs to step back and re-invent themselves.

I honestly don't care whether my President does "guy things" or not. I do care whether my President believes strongly about something that is good, and is willing to take a hit politically while they do the right thing.

The Democrats and their biased partners in the media keep stripping away any credibility they might have had with the general public. They are becoming as irrelevant as the UN, and for the same reasons. They profess to believe in an ideal, until it is no longer convenient for them.

Keep it up guys. It may look like you are making gains, but the folks that are lying to the general public about the general acceptance of your polocies are also lying to you about how well you are doing. Folks like Senator Miller from Geogia know what I am saying is true. I'm hoping you'll catch on too.
 

Schweddy

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I think that the Democrats really missed it on all of these points, and more. First of all, did John Kerry best represent what his party believed in? Does John Kerry represent anything? Outside of saying that he'd do everything different than the way the President Bush did, you never really got a sense of what he really would've done. He always professed that he had a plan, but never laid out any details. In fact, he said "I have a plan" so much, that if Martin Luther King were alive, he'd sue John Kerry for plagiarism.
I agree 100%. I really don't have much to add to this part - you have said it all.

The Democrats and their biased partners in the media keep stripping away any credibility they might have had with the general public. They are becoming as irrelevant as the UN, and for the same reasons.
I think they are learning a valuable lesson. Soon, FOXNEWS will be the ONLY viable source of News Television if they do not start to move to the center again. Some believe this already. CBS has really lost an increadible amount of viewers, yet they are not acknowlegding it. One day very soon it will cost them. Capitolism is what America is all about. If you don't like it turn the channel. That channel is being turned during prime time news.
 

LiberalFINGER

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Hey Vauge,

I just wanted to point out what I have said in many US Politics Debates that you have scoffed at.

Capitolism is what America is all about. If you don't like it turn the channel.
 

heyjoeo

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Wow. Fox News + Credible = Oxymoron.

NEVER look to Fox News for any kind of legitmate, unbiased news. Bleh! I'm glad here in Tampa I have The News Hour with Jim Lehrer. Now's there a REAL news anchor.
 

doctor1

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heyjoeo said:
Wow. Fox News + Credible = Oxymoron.

NEVER look to Fox News for any kind of legitmate, unbiased news. Bleh! I'm glad here in Tampa I have The News Hour with Jim Lehrer. Now's there a REAL news anchor.
Do you have stock in Kool-Aid, or do you just enjoy drinking it? :rofl

I see statements like what you've said all the time, but they never back it up with any examples. Perhaps you could enlighten all of us with something that Fox News has done/said that lacks credibility? Just one would be nice, more would be educational.;)

Oh, keep in mind that I will not just take your word for it, but I will do something that most people wouldn't take the time to do. I will research your examples on a case by case basis to make sure that you have your facts straight. I will even e-mail the individuals that you quote for their responses to your claims. Why would I bother to do all that? It's all in a good cause if I can educate folks like you. :cool:
 

WKL815

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I love FoxNews. (I dislike O'Reilly whom I hope is not who people associate with FoxNews foremost. I often yell at him for being a narcissistic moron.) Even Hannity (I do like him still though) can be a bit of an unreasonable rabid dog.

I stopped watching Olbermann on MSNBC way before the election when he talked about obesity as in no part a fault of the obese. That was my first clue that he was a pansy victim-mentality liberal.

If Chris Matthews would just disclaim any sense of objectivity each program I might be able to watch him sometimes.

As for the election results: I AM SO HAPPY!

The sweetest part is to see them all have to re-evaluate their platform and notice that they are NOT the true party majority. The far left's elitist propaganda will not/does not work. I just get tickled thinking of them looking for their moral stance because it has always been painfully aware that hypocrisy is built into their platform.

Maybe like a small child who's been spanked and sent to his room until she can be more reasonable, they will emerge stronger to the betterment of the country.
 

Schweddy

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First of all, Welcome to Debate Politics. :)

Even Hannity (I do like him still though) can be a bit of an unreasonable rabid dog.
Went and seen him a few weeks with ago with doctor1. He is awesome live!! I hear yah about the rabid thing, he sure can start talking without saying anything to fill the air on talk radio.

The sweetest part is to see them all have to re-evaluate their platform and notice that they are NOT the true party majority. The far left's elitist propaganda will not/does not work. I just get tickled thinking of them looking for their moral stance because it has always been painfully aware that hypocrisy is built into their platform.

Maybe like a small child who's been spanked and sent to his room until she can be more reasonable, they will emerge stronger to the betterment of the country.
Nope, I think the damage has been done and it will be along time and several more Zell Millers before that were to happen. I have been monitoring the political sites they are sprouting up EVERYWHERE. There will be alot of chatter before '08 and mark my words, the internet bloggers and forums will impose alot of substance to do in the agenda's of the next presidental race. I can see two parties virtually running on the same platform (whatever that will be) because of us 'logers and 'baters keeping them in check.
 

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Doctor, because Fox News has a huge conservative bias, it makes them not credible for news. Selective reporting and not covering the other side on any issue is the reason for this.

As for the "elitist" comment, that's absloutly baseless. It's like me making the generalization that all right wings are stupid hicks. I'd like to see your "facts" on that one.
 

doctor1

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heyjoeo said:
Doctor, because Fox News has a huge conservative bias, it makes them not credible for news. Selective reporting and not covering the other side on any issue is the reason for this.
:confused: I smell Kool-Aid! :rofl

Joe,

Examples, examples, examples... Try to be specific, just try. :D

Are all of these people biased in favor of the Conservatives?

Alicia Acuna
Dari Alexander
John Allen
Jim Angle
David Asman
Bret Baier
Fred Barnes
Michael Barone
Lisa Bernhard
Robert Bevelacqua
Jeff Birnbaum
Scott Bleier
Steve Brown
Patti Ann Browne
Greg Burke
Eric Burns
Brenda Buttner
Carl Cameron
Alisyn Camerota
Neil Cavuto
Steve Centanni
Linda Chavez
Kiran Chetry
Eleanor Clift
Jamie Colby
Alan Colmes
Todd Connor
David Corn
Rita Cosby
Claudia Cowan
Bill Cowan
Monica Crowley
Alfonse D'Amato
Janice Dean
Laurie Dhue
Steve Doocy
Tim Eads
Mike Emanuel
Susan Estrich
Geraldine Ferraro
Donna Fiducia
Rick Folbaum
Trace Gallagher
Mike Gallagher
Major Garrett
John Gibson
Newt Gingrich
Jeff Goldblatt
Stan Goldman
Wendell Goler
Rebecca Gomez
Lauren Green
Jennifer Griffin
Jane Hall
Sean Hannity
Steve Harrigan
Ellis Henican
Molly Henneberg
Catherine Herridge
E.D. Hill
Page Hopkins
David Horowitz
Adam Housley
Juliet Huddy
Brit Hume
David Hunt
Mansoor Ijaz
Carol Iovanna
Gregg Jarrett
Mike Jerrick
Peter J. Johnson
John Kasich
Phil Keating
Terry Keenan
Amy Kellogg
Greg Kelly
Megyn Kendall
Douglas Kennedy
Brian Kilmeade
Mort Kondracke
William Kristol
William LaJeunesse
John Leo
Rick Leventhal
Mara Liasson
Robert Lichter
Martha MacCallum
Michelle Malkin
Robert Massi
Bill McCuddy
Dagen McDowell
Angela McGlowan
Thomas McInerney
Carol McKinley
David Lee Miller
Craig Mitnick
John Moody
Burton Moore
Mancow Muller
Andrew A. Napolitano
Chuck Nash
Heather Nauert
Oliver North
Bill O'Reilly
Greg Palkot
Uma Pemmaraju
Julian Phillips
Jim Pinkerton
John Podhoretz
Brigitte Quinn
Ellen Ratner
Geraldo Rivera
James Rosen
Isadore Rosenfeld
Dennis Ross
Orlando Salinas
Bill Sammon
Thomas Sancton
Barry Schweid
Jon Scott
Bob Sellers
Jonathan Serrie
Eric Shawn
Caroline Shively
Jane Skinner
Shepard Smith
Gary Smith
Tobin Smith
Tony Snow
Dan Springer
Steve Stone
Mike Straka
Cal Thomas
David Folk Thomas
Mike Tobin
Liz Trotta
Paul Vallely
Greta Van Susteren
Stuart Varney
Linda Vester
Anita Vogel
Chris Wallace
Lis Wiehl
Juan Williams
Brian Wilson
Georgia Witkin
Kelly Wright
 
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Schweddy

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for reference:

" drink the Kool-Aid v. To become a firm believer in something; to accept an argument or philosophy wholeheartedly or blindly."
 

doctor1

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Joe,

Kool-Aid, it was used by Jim Jones to poison the people that followed him blindly.

Poisoned Kool-Aid was also used by those weirdo cultists that thought that was the next step to get them on the spaceship in California.

Kool-Aid, as in you are a Kool-Aid drinking liberal, incapable of presenting any opinion of your own. The comments you've made are just the rhetoric that the liberal media tells you about Fox News Channel. I am asking for specific examples, but I doubt that you have any. It would be really hard to come up with examples if you haven't really watched Fox News Channel.

Try it, just one day of watching Fox News Channel. Find a case of bias on the actual news, not the commentary shows, but the actual news. There are commentary shows that have a bias, but they state it up front, whether it is a right or left bias. Then of course there is Hannity and Colmes, which has all sorts of folks from both sides.

I'd prefer the show was just Sean Hannity, but I do listen to both sides. Unfortunately, most of the folks from the left are just Kool-Aid drinking liberals like yourself, spouting the talking-points that the DNC faxed/e-mailed them ealier that day... Or if they're just lazy liberals, they just repeat what they saw on some other liberal media program.

In case your mommy and daddy have a tough time helping you with the big words:

rhetoric - Language that is elaborate, pretentious, insincere, or intellectually vacuous :rofl
 
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Schweddy

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To keep the debate alive:

Here is a very liberal site "We watch FOX so you don't have to.".

News Hounds

It is interesting some of the ideas they dream up. Though, I have seen a few times when they were on the money with E.D. Hill. Unfortunatly, they discount way too often opinions of the person speaking rather than facts. Most of the time it is a humerous read...
 
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LiberalFINGER

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The only thing I really have to back my next statement up with is personal experience.

There is no such thing as unbiased media. I am sure that Fox News is biased. I'm sure the same could be said about CNN. CBS and NBC aren't the patron saints of unbiased reporting.

Sticking to one news faction or another only invites trouble.
 

Schweddy

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Doc, looking over your list above...

Susan Estrich

Did you really have to mention her? :eek:

BTW, she worked for Clinton and is a very diehard liberal...

Google Images for reference
 

doctor1

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That list was from the Fox News Channel web-site, where you can read different personalities' bios. Susan Estrich doesn't have a personality, so I am not sure why they would have listed her. She might as well be the DNC's sock-puppet. I think it was her idea to put Dukakis in that tank and helmet for the famous photo-op.

None the less, Fox News Channel actually has her on from time to time, which actually backs up some of the points I was trying to make above.

Mr. Finger, I am fine. I just get tired of the rhetoric, and nobody backs it up. It's as if they think it must be true because they've heard the same thing from other places, but they don't actually know the facts. I'm just trying to get this guy to check out the facts.

I mean looking on this web-site is a good first step for Joe, but I think he needs to do more than spout rhetoric. Tell us what "YOU" think and know to be true Joe, not what you were told to say.
 

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I agree doc. That was a little harsh, but point well taken. It is quite annoying that many people will not look into issues for themselves and take the easy road. But is that not what debating is all about? :)

As for Susan Estrich I ment that in jest, and she is on FOXNEWS alot more than I would like - it's not because of her position on issues, it's her damn voice.

She has even filled in from time to time for Gibson and Colmes, but I think FOX realized that many people cannot stand her - because of that scratchy rough whiney voice. I wouldn't doubt if they were pushing for her own weekend show, she has the skills to do her own show, but her popularity was just not high enough. (My opinion only - no facts for this)
 

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I've had a really low opinion of Susan Estrich since a few weeks ago, when she was on Greta's show, and she called William Kristol a liar. He took offense to it, and I don't blame him. Susan Estrich was obviously the one who was (dis)coloring the truth, and Greta was just eating it up.

Of course, Greta's husband was also working for the Democrats at the time. I think he was working for Kerry's campaign. Greta did the right thing by always informing her audience where she stood, and who her husband's employer was.

The news should be un-biased facts, and the commentary should be there for all sides. This type of programming prevents it from becoming a propaganda channel for any particular movement, and I think Fox News is doing a great job. :D
 

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CNN Headline News used to be incredibly good about delivering facts and their format kept them from being able to make commentary due to time constraints.

I've actually gotten into the habit of watching the news and ignoring allot of the crap that comes with the info. When I get a chance to breath, I'll give my news sources a good once over and see what I come up with.
 

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Joe,

My sincerest apologies. Vauge just told me that you are really a kid. I had no idea. :eek:ops

I had assumed that you were just another unenlightened adult; so the "mommy and daddy" crack was actually meant for an adult. As a kid, you'll get some slack that I won't give an adult. Adults should know better, and kids should learn better.

You're still learning, and that is a good thing. :D
 

Schweddy

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"kids" are not allowed on Debate Politics.

This is a 13+ forum.

heyjoe, as a "young adult", has the integrity to stand up to his values and beliefs. Because of that I am personally impressed. (even though he is wrong *sniker*) ;)
 
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