Is it possible that China released Covid-19 to disrupt the 2020 Election?

SheWolf · Jan 3, 2021

Captain Adverse said:
I seldom participate in "Conspiracy" discussions, as I try to remain as "practical" as I can.

But I just finish watching one of my favorite movies "V for Vendetta," and this segment regarding the origins of the "St. Mary's Virus" peaked my "conspiracy-bug."

[VIDEO]
The viewers learn that the Virus had been released for the sole purpose of creating public fear, which undermined the existing government allowing for a "radical" change.

Now recall that prior to Covid-19, even the most radical opponents of the Trump Administration feared that the strong economy he had led would sweep him into a second term. In point of fact, during the recent election based solely on the pre-mass mail voting tallies, Trump won the election. In other words, had there not been the "emergency efforts" to "protect citizens" from the threat of Covid-19 via pushing mass-mailer voting, Trump would be starting his second term this January.

So my "what if" is this; is it possible that the Chinese government acting either alone, or working with certain "compromised" US Federal/State government officials, intentionally released Covid-19 on the world?

We know they were studying it in that Wuhan "Lab." We know they were aware of it's "release" prior to letting anyone else know, and that they did everything in their power to hide it's release as long as possible. We also know that they continued to lie about it's danger, including the assertion of no evidence of "human to human transmission." Finally, we know that while they eventually isolated Wuhan from the rest of China, they did not stop international travel from either Wuhan or other Chinese "hubs."

We also know that by all "reports" so far they have suffered the least (comparatively based on population) harm of any major nation from this incident, despite being the source of the outbreak.

Finally, we are learning more and more about increasing levels of Chinese "control and/or influence" over many of our career politicians as well as many of our "multinational" business entities:

[VIDEO]
They've hacked US citizen's personal information:

Chinese Hackers Charged In Alleged Cyber-Theft Of 145 Million Americans' Data : NPR

Senator: ‘Chinese’ Hackers Stole Social Security Numbers For Federal Civilian Employees – CBS Los Angeles (cbslocal.com)

They've undermined political figures, most recently Eric Swallwell, and perhaps even President-elect Joe Biden through his son Hunter Biden's "businesses."

IMO our greatest threat to American unity and security is Communist China. I suggest the "conspiracy theory" that China intentionally released the Covid-19 virus in order to cause the economic collapse of the USA, both to undermine our economic power and to esure that Trump did not get re-elected.

Is this possible? Yes, No, other?

What are your thoughts for or against this possibility.

Why would China unleash the virus on themselves and in their own country, and wait for it to spread to America? Also, they hurt the global economy... but this was all intended to get Biden elected? For real? If Trump handled the virus better, it would have shown in his polling favorability and trust. GWB did not lose his re-election because of 9 11. It doesn’t work that way. Lastly, if China wanted to interfere with election, there are million other options that would make more sense and cause less global damage.

eohrnberger · Jan 3, 2021

Keridan said:
That's a fair point and thank you for returning the respect you deserve and have always shown.

I honestly still feel the same though. This was a bad mistake and certain people just took advantage.

I just shy away from believing conspiracies on this level. Maybe I'm naive, but it seems impossible in this age to get away with it without a whole lot more evidence.

"This was a bad mistake and certain people just took advantage."
This has a certain 'ring of truth' to it, opportunists doing what they do.

eohrnberger · Jan 3, 2021

Captain Adverse said:
Thank you.

Well I am proposing this as a possibility. If I thought it was absolutely true, I would post it in a different section of the Forum, along with supporting evidence/information.

However, I posted it in the Conspiracy Theory section because I think it is "possible," and am seeking discussion on both the possibility and it's likelihood.

The biggest issue I have is with the timing, coupled with the facts that there was really no reason for China to seek to "hide it" for so long or to allow international travel instead of instituting a complete quarantine.

They KNEW about the existence of this virus in their own laboratory, they KNEW that it was "out." Yet they practically did nothing except pretend nothing was happening when they had the chance to control it at the start.

But isn't that the first reaction of any bureaucracy to a problem?

eohrnberger · Jan 3, 2021

Captain Adverse said:
IMO no, because viruses have a genetic "signature," and eventually (as with other such outbreaks) would be traced back to a source of origin.

Moreover, IMO it is politically "advantageous" (at least as far as the Chi-Com leadership would think) to have the outbreak occur "at home." Then do exactly what they did, claim it was a natural occurrence in a "wet market," and "so sorry, not our fault." When that failed thanks to Chinese whistleblowers, what did they do next? Blame it on the US Military. And so on.

I would not deny the plausibility of the scenario that you've just described, and would complement it with that the Chinese have billions of people and a loss of some doesn't appear to be a significant consideration to them as long as the longer term, large goal is moved forward.

Jean-s · Jan 3, 2021

Captain Adverse said:
Just once I wish you could provide a real answer for debate. An appeal to the absurd (it is NOT "possible that pigs...") is not an argument.

I listed the points that suggest is it possible. Couple that with the fact that the incoming Administration is promising to be "China-friendly" by pretty much going back to "business as usual pre-2017." That provided a good motivation for such an action.

There is more to our world than American elections.

JasperL · Jan 3, 2021

eohrnberger said:
"This was a bad mistake and certain people just took advantage."
This has a certain 'ring of truth' to it, opportunists doing what they do.

The same crisis was there for Trump to "take advantage" of and he blew it. Blame Trump for that. He really had an easy job as far as showing leadership goes and he just failed, because he's incompetent. Take any of the last few Presidents - Reagan, Bush I, Clinton, Bush II, Obama - they all cruise to reelection. Just have a few national addresses, say it's serious, trust the experts, stay safe, wear your facemasks, we're all in this together, etc. Instead he held super spreader events.... because he's an idiot.

eohrnberger · Jan 3, 2021

Captain Adverse said:
IMO no, because viruses have a genetic "signature," and eventually (as with other such outbreaks) would be traced back to a source of origin.

Moreover, IMO it is politically "advantageous" (at least as far as the Chi-Com leadership would think) to have the outbreak occur "at home." Then do exactly what they did, claim it was a natural occurrence in a "wet market," and "so sorry, not our fault." When that failed thanks to Chinese whistleblowers, what did they do next? Blame it on the US Military. And so on.

Hmm. I can see that you are coming at this from this with different thoughts that I am. But that's OK, such is life, you know?

eohrnberger · Jan 3, 2021

JasperL said:
The same crisis was there for Trump to "take advantage" of and he blew it. Blame Trump for that. He really had an easy job as far as showing leadership goes and he just failed, because he's incompetent. Take any of the last few Presidents - Reagan, Bush I, Clinton, Bush II, Obama - they all cruise to reelection. Just have a few national addresses, say it's serious, trust the experts, stay safe, wear your facemasks, we're all in this together, etc. Instead he held super spreader events.... because he's an idiot.

Your TDS acknowledged. You really think that Fauchi's advice to the president and the public has had consistency during those times?
Make no mistake though, Trump is often his own worst enemy with his big brash NY mouth, but when fed inconsistent information as dressed up as highly valued expertise information, kinda plays out as it has, doesn't it?

JasperL · Jan 3, 2021

eohrnberger said:
Your TDS acknowledged. You really think that Fauchi's advice to the president and the public has had consistency during those times?
Make no mistake though, Trump is often his own worst enemy with his big brash NY mouth, but when fed inconsistent information as dressed up as highly valued expertise information, kinda plays out as it has, doesn't it?

It's not TDS - he failed as a leader during COVID. That's on him, not on Fauci, whose approval was FAR higher than Trump's on that issue, and it's because all Fauci did was say what the science was at that time. Yes, that changed, and so his advice changes as the science changed. It's not hard.

Anyway, the buck stops with Trump, or at least that's how it used to work. Now nothing is the President's fault - he's just the guy in charge. It's all the other people who failed HIM! Etc. It's pathetic really.

dncc · Jan 3, 2021

Captain Adverse said:
I seldom participate in "Conspiracy" discussions, as I try to remain as "practical" as I can.

But I just finish watching one of my favorite movies "V for Vendetta," and this segment regarding the origins of the "St. Mary's Virus" peaked my "conspiracy-bug."

[VIDEO]
The viewers learn that the Virus had been released for the sole purpose of creating public fear, which undermined the existing government allowing for a "radical" change.

Now recall that prior to Covid-19, even the most radical opponents of the Trump Administration feared that the strong economy he had led would sweep him into a second term. In point of fact, during the recent election based solely on the pre-mass mail voting tallies, Trump won the election. In other words, had there not been the "emergency efforts" to "protect citizens" from the threat of Covid-19 via pushing mass-mailer voting, Trump would be starting his second term this January.

So my "what if" is this; is it possible that the Chinese government acting either alone, or working with certain "compromised" US Federal/State government officials, intentionally released Covid-19 on the world?

We know they were studying it in that Wuhan "Lab." We know they were aware of it's "release" prior to letting anyone else know, and that they did everything in their power to hide it's release as long as possible. We also know that they continued to lie about it's danger, including the assertion of no evidence of "human to human transmission." Finally, we know that while they eventually isolated Wuhan from the rest of China, they did not stop international travel from either Wuhan or other Chinese "hubs."

We also know that by all "reports" so far they have suffered the least (comparatively based on population) harm of any major nation from this incident, despite being the source of the outbreak.

Finally, we are learning more and more about increasing levels of Chinese "control and/or influence" over many of our career politicians as well as many of our "multinational" business entities:

[VIDEO]
They've hacked US citizen's personal information:

Chinese Hackers Charged In Alleged Cyber-Theft Of 145 Million Americans' Data : NPR

Senator: ‘Chinese’ Hackers Stole Social Security Numbers For Federal Civilian Employees – CBS Los Angeles (cbslocal.com)

They've undermined political figures, most recently Eric Swallwell, and perhaps even President-elect Joe Biden through his son Hunter Biden's "businesses."

IMO our greatest threat to American unity and security is Communist China. I suggest the "conspiracy theory" that China intentionally released the Covid-19 virus in order to cause the economic collapse of the USA, both to undermine our economic power and to esure that Trump did not get re-elected.

Is this possible? Yes, No, other?

What are your thoughts for or against this possibility.

Trump got more votes this time than last time. If the plan was to drive down the votes for Trump....it failed.
More voters voted this time than in any previous election. If the plan was to drive down turn out....it failed.

Captain Adverse · Jan 3, 2021

dncc said:
Trump got more votes this time than last time. If the plan was to drive down the votes for Trump....it failed.
More voters voted this time than in any previous election. If the plan was to drive down turn out....it failed.

If there was a plan (remember, this is a "conspiracy theory" thread), then I suggest it was to damage the US economy, create fear of catching and dying from the disease, and help the Democrats use that fear to get mass-mail (not to be confused with pre-existing absentee) balloting. Mass-mail balloting which is subject to all sorts of "fraud" and harvesting which ended up turning the election off it's expected course.

dncc · Jan 3, 2021

Captain Adverse said:
If there was a plan (remember, this is a "conspiracy theory" thread), then I suggest it was to damage the US economy, create fear of catching and dying from the disease, and help the Democrats use that fear to get mass-mail (not to be confused with pre-existing absentee) balloting. Mass-mail balloting which is subject to all sorts of "fraud" and harvesting which ended up turning the election off it's expected course.

Thats a lot of English to put on that particular cue ball. They make a virus....to damage the economy....to keep people indoors...to help a certain political party....to get mass-mail in voting....so votes can be harvested.

Ten percent of the states already do mass-mail voting. So that is rather silly.
The whole "evil plot" relies on Trump decrying mail in voting. Had Trump endorsed it...the silly scheme would not have gotten off the ground.
Mail in voting has been going on for years and years in multiple states. Hardly any fraud has come up.

I love a good conspiracy theory. This isn't one of them.

Also, the virus has a 99%+ survivability rate. I'd expect something more deadly if it were intentionally created and spread.

Captain Adverse · Jan 3, 2021

dncc said:
Thats a lot of English to put on that particular cue ball. They make a virus....to damage the economy....to keep people indoors...to help a certain political party....to get mass-mail in voting....so votes can be harvested.

Ten percent of the states already do mass-mail voting. So that is rather silly.
The whole "evil plot" relies on Trump decrying mail in voting. Had Trump endorsed it...the silly scheme would not have gotten off the ground.
Mail in voting has been going on for years and years in multiple states. Hardly any fraud has come up.

I love a good conspiracy theory. This isn't one of them.

Also, the virus has a 99%+ survivability rate. I'd expect something more deadly if it were intentionally created and spread.

(Sigh) In the alleged conspiracy scenario those three goals are neither mutually exclusive, nor necessarily follow upon one another.

IMO the primary goal was to damage the US economy. This done with the (knowing/unknowing?) complicity of the MSM, Social Media, and the Democrat national leadership via scaremongering. Recall the claims of over 2 million deaths at a minimum if "drastic action" to prevent the spread is not taken? The calls for national shutdowns for longer and longer periods? When you close businesses and strive to keep contact to a minimum, what has been the result to date? A highly frightened population who can be "stampeded" one way and another.

The use of this stampeding allowed for the rush to NATIONAL mass-mail voting, not "ten percent" which is "one in ten." Yet even among those "five" States which have ironed out many problems over time, there have been some issues. Meanwhile the other States which enacted mass-mail voting are where the alleged problems (which have been ignored and NOT ruled on in most of the cases dismissed by Courts) occurred. That is either "icing on the cake," or as suggested in my OP by the Chinese themselves, planned with bought and paid for members of our government.

dncc · Jan 3, 2021

Captain Adverse said:
(Sigh) In the alleged conspiracy scenario those three goals are neither mutually exclusive, nor necessarily follow upon one another.

IMO the primary goal was to damage the US economy. This done with the (knowing/unknowing?) complicity of the MSM, Social Media, and the Democrat national leadership via scaremongering. Recall the claims of over 2 million deaths at a minimum if "drastic action" to prevent the spread is not taken? The calls for national shutdowns for longer and longer periods? When you close businesses and strive to keep contact to a minimum, what has been the result to date? A highly frightened population who can be "stampeded" one way and another.

The use of this stampeding allowed for the rush to NATIONAL mass-mail voting, not "ten percent" which is "one in ten." Yet even among those "five" States which have ironed out many problems over time, there have been some issues. Meanwhile the other States which enacted mass-mail voting are where the alleged problems (which have been ignored and NOT ruled on in most of the cases dismissed by Courts) occurred. That is either "icing on the cake," or as suggested in my OP by the Chinese themselves, planned with bought and paid for members of our government.

Their goal was to damage the US Economy--their best customer? It would be like Budweiser taking out the NFL. Again, I love a good conspiracy theory. The more reasons you come up with for the "why"...the worse it gets.

Five is ten percent of fifty.

Now you're alleging that China has bought members of our government--the classic use of one conspiracy theory to prop up another conspiracy theory.

Captain Adverse · Jan 3, 2021

dncc said:
Their goal was to damage the US Economy--their best customer? It would be like Budweiser taking out the NFL.

The problem with your response is that you've bought into the idea that the Chinese government is not really Communist, it is some form of "capitalist light."

The reality is that China is playing "the long game," pretending to be more "market oriented" than it actually is. Yet it remains a controlled socialist society in every sense of the term, and it plays at capitalism with the goal of using it to undermine western society.

dncc said:
Again, I love a good conspiracy theory. The more reasons you come up with for the "why"...the worse it gets.

This is not an argument. It is just asserting a causal fallacy.

dncc said:
Five is ten percent of fifty.

Correct, which is why I referenced ""even among those FIVE States" in my response.

dncc said:
Now you're alleging that China has bought members of our government--the classic use of one conspiracy theory to prop up another conspiracy theory.

Did you bother to READ the OP, or are you just going your own way? I not only provided a video of a Chinese "official" bragging about it, but mentioned both Congressman Swallwell, and the Bidens as examples of likely suspects.

I don't think you are taking this "debate topic" seriously.

Tagline (see below) time.

Quag · Jan 3, 2021

Is it possible that China released covid-19 to ensure bad Boys for life was the highest grossing film of 2020?
Im just asking questions here

Airyaman · Jan 3, 2021

To the OP: nope. Trump has been good for China.

Why China Wants Trump to Win

Four more years might present tantalizing opportunities for Beijing to expand its influence around East Asia and the world.

www.theatlantic.com

Jetboogieman · Jan 3, 2021

Captain Adverse said:
I seldom participate in "Conspiracy" discussions, as I try to remain as "practical" as I can.

If this was true, you wouldn't be a Trump supporter.

eohrnberger · Jan 3, 2021

JasperL said:
It's not TDS - he failed as a leader during COVID. That's on him, not on Fauci, whose approval was FAR higher than Trump's on that issue, and it's because all Fauci did was say what the science was at that time. Yes, that changed, and so his advice changes as the science changed. It's not hard.

That's exactly what happened.

Fauci: The Response Of Trump Admin Has Been Impressive, I Can't Imagine Anybody Could Be Doing More

Dr. Anthony Fauci says the White House Coronavirus Task Force is working around the clock to fight the coronavirus outbreak in an interview with Mark Levin on FNC's 'Life, Liberty & Levin.' Fauci said Trump has never challenged him on the science of coronavirus on 'Life, Liberty & Levin.' MARK...

www.realclearpolitics.com

And yet you see seem to think that it's a failure. Dr. Fauci seems to disagree with you.

Anyway, the buck stops with Trump, or at least that's how it used to work. Now nothing is the President's fault - he's just the guy in charge. It's all the other people who failed HIM! Etc. It's pathetic really.

That's fair. Trump does that alot. This is true.

Lord Tammerlain · Jan 3, 2021

Short answer no

Long answer no

A few points.
1. It would be idiotic to release it in China first. With the amount of travel and exports from China to the rest of the world it would be better to release it in the US or Europe first. Without a vaccine it would be idiotic to release it from them to release in China first.

2. To release it in China, then give advance notice that there is a virus to give the US tI'm to react and prepare for the virus would be stupid. China would have to expect the US and Europe would do a worse job containing the virus than they would. The US and UK were rated as the most prepared for a pandemic countries in 2019. So not a great bet.

Overall it would be a horrible risk to take, China would have to count on them being able to contain a virus without killing millions of people in China and that the US would do worse than they did.

Counter argument

The US released the virus in China to disrupt their economy and hopefully cause the downfall of their government.

Lord Tammerlain · Jan 3, 2021

SheWolf said:
Why would China unleash the virus on themselves and in their own country, and wait for it to spread to America? Also, they hurt the global economy... but this was all intended to get Biden elected? For real? If Trump handled the virus better, it would have shown in his polling favorability and trust. GWB did not lose his re-election because of 9 11. It doesn’t work that way. Lastly, if China wanted to interfere with election, there are million other options that would make more sense and cause less global damage.

For it to make sense China would have to believe that the Trump admin woyld handle Covid 19 so badly it would cause the American people to turn on him. When in 2019 or so the US was rated the most prepared to handle a pandemic

Lord Tammerlain · Jan 3, 2021

Captain Adverse said:
IMO no, because viruses have a genetic "signature," and eventually (as with other such outbreaks) would be traced back to a source of origin.

Moreover, IMO it is politically "advantageous" (at least as far as the Chi-Com leadership would think) to have the outbreak occur "at home." Then do exactly what they did, claim it was a natural occurrence in a "wet market," and "so sorry, not our fault." When that failed thanks to Chinese whistleblowers, what did they do next? Blame it on the US Military. And so on.

The virus has been now known to be in Italy and France at testable levels in Dec. Blood samples in the US date it to Dec 2019, it has been identified in Brazil in Nov 2019

JasperL · Jan 3, 2021

eohrnberger said:
That's exactly what happened.

Fauci: The Response Of Trump Admin Has Been Impressive, I Can't Imagine Anybody Could Be Doing More

Dr. Anthony Fauci says the White House Coronavirus Task Force is working around the clock to fight the coronavirus outbreak in an interview with Mark Levin on FNC's 'Life, Liberty & Levin.' Fauci said Trump has never challenged him on the science of coronavirus on 'Life, Liberty & Levin.' MARK...

www.realclearpolitics.com

And yet you see seem to think that it's a failure. Dr. Fauci seems to disagree with you.

A lot happened between March 23, 2020 and today. For example, this was before the POTUS took a public crap on his own CDC guidelines by holding political super spreader rallies all over the country, tore down signs encouraging social distancing, discouraged mask usage, promoted unproven treatments, and more.

eohrnberger · Jan 3, 2021

JasperL said:
A lot happened between March 23, 2020 and today. For example, this was before the POTUS took a public crap on his own CDC guidelines by holding political super spreader rallies all over the country, tore down signs encouraging social distancing, discouraged mask usage, promoted unproven treatments, and more.

Fauci's advise to the nation has been all over the place. Remember when he told the public that masks are not needed?
Then they were.
The guy's positions and advice seem to be made of jello.

And the riots which Democrats support weren't 'super spreader events'? I find that rather hard to believe.

Deuce · Jan 3, 2021

Captain Adverse said:
...Followed by a Red Herring?

Still not an argument. Neither of your responses address the "conspiracy theory" presented. It is just "snark."

What is there to respond to? Wild ass speculation? That you came up with as a result of a work of fiction?

If there's evidence to support your conspiracy theory, please show it to me.

Is it possible that China released Covid-19 to disrupt the 2020 Election?

SheWolf

eohrnberger

eohrnberger

eohrnberger

Jean-s

Gone

JasperL

eohrnberger

eohrnberger

JasperL

dncc

Captain Adverse

Classical Liberal Sage

dncc

Captain Adverse

Classical Liberal Sage

dncc

Captain Adverse

Classical Liberal Sage

Quag

Airyaman

New Druid

Why China Wants Trump to Win

Jetboogieman

Somewhere in Babylon

eohrnberger

Fauci: The Response Of Trump Admin Has Been Impressive, I Can't Imagine Anybody Could Be Doing More

Lord Tammerlain

Lord Tammerlain

Lord Tammerlain

JasperL

Fauci: The Response Of Trump Admin Has Been Impressive, I Can't Imagine Anybody Could Be Doing More

eohrnberger

Deuce

Outer space potato man

Is it possible that China released Covid-19 to disrupt the 2020 Election?

Gone

Classical Liberal Sage

Classical Liberal Sage

Classical Liberal Sage

New Druid

Somewhere in Babylon

Outer space potato man

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