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Is it okay for the POTUS to skip honoring the follen in battle?

bearpoker

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Trump did it in France and then again on Veteran's Day here in the US. What do you say trumpsters? Do you support a president who doesn't honor those who fell in war?
 

Keridan

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Think you should have made this a poll. I also can't imagine you will find a lot of people who honestly excuse that choice. He himself called it a mistake.
 

Oborosen

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Think you should have made this a poll. I also can't imagine you will find a lot of people who honestly excuse that choice. He himself called it a mistake.

They're just looking for something to dig their heels in on at this point.
The president has never really been obligated to do any of these public events and even so, he himself feels adversely about what he chose to do. So I'm fine with it.
 

yankintx

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Trump did it in France and then again on Veteran's Day here in the US. What do you say trumpsters? Do you support a president who doesn't honor those who fell in war?

Hey give Trump a break, it was a bad hair day .
 

Hawkeye10

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Trump did it in France and then again on Veteran's Day here in the US. What do you say trumpsters? Do you support a president who doesn't honor those who fell in war?

It is not fine, but this is Trump, this is what we get.

In his mind he is modernizing the Presidency..... traditional ceremonies carry almost no value with him, it is time to think about now...all the problems we have now, and tomorrow.







These are desperate times.

Act Accordingly.
 

bearpoker

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Think you should have made this a poll. I also can't imagine you will find a lot of people who honestly excuse that choice. He himself called it a mistake.

Honestly, my problem is that I don't want a president that would make that particular mistake. I always took for granted that presidents would honor our fallen heroes. Like I take for granted that my heart beats. People who have heart attacks don't take their heart for granted any more and I don't take a competent president for granted any more either.
 

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In his mind he is modernizing the Presidency..... traditional ceremonies carry almost no value with him, it is time to think about now...all the problems we have now, and tomorrow.


OMG. You're saying that about someone who went to France and saw a parade and wanted one of his very own back home.


I know it's hard on you to have to keep trying to find some way to polish the turd, but it's the job you chose. Try harder.
 

Amelia

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Honestly, my problem is that I don't want a president that would make that particular mistake. I always took for granted that presidents would honor our fallen heroes. Like I take for granted that my heart beats. People who have heart attacks don't take their heart for granted any more and I don't take a competent president for granted any more either.

I'm with you there.
 

Keridan

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Honestly, my problem is that I don't want a president that would make that particular mistake. I always took for granted that presidents would honor our fallen heroes. Like I take for granted that my heart beats. People who have heart attacks don't take their heart for granted any more and I don't take a competent president for granted any more either.

Interesting analogy since you couldn't possibly know that I've suffered 4 heart attacks. Not that it affects the point.

I don't particularly want Trump as president either. I certainly have no respect for missing 2 important ceremonies, especially as commander-in-chief missing memorials. Unfortunately we are stuck for a while. We weren't given a choice 2 years ago and we have to pray we are given one in 2020.
 

Hawkeye10

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OMG. You're saying that about someone who went to France and saw a parade and wanted one of his very own back home.


I know it's hard on you to have to keep trying to find some way to polish the turd, but it's the job you chose. Try harder.

I am trying to explain Trump to you.

Your lack of interest is noted.
 

Xelor

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Is it okay for the POTUS to skip honoring the follen in battle?
In the abstract, no it's not okay. As a practical matter, were Trump not to have made such a big deal of his alleged support and respect for veterans, his tepid honorific showings wouldn't be something about which he'd deserve to be chided.

But Trump has been making a big deal about his regard for veterans since at least that, what, that 2016 (?) debate he skipped to host a veterans benefit. So when he (or someone who's made similar attestations about themselves) doesn't turn out, especially lamely claiming inability to do so on account of mere rain, on designated national/international holidays that honor veterans, fallen or not, no, it's not okay.
 

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I am trying to explain Trump to you.

Your lack of interest is noted.


Pick an explanation which isn't so easily shot down by Trump's blatant craving for pomp and fanfare. Try harder.
 

Hawkeye10

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Pick an explanation which isn't so easily shot down by Trump's blatant craving for pomp and fanfare. Try harder.

You do understand that we are talking about Trump turning down chances for pomp and fanfare...why he does that....

Consistency is important if you want me to take you seriously.

You need to think things through.
 

Amelia

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You do understand that we are talking about Trump turning down chances for pomp and fanfare...why he does that....

Consistency is important if you want me to take you seriously.


Yes, I understand we're talking about why the fanfare-craving Trump turned down two recent opportunities to bask in reflected military glory.

Given Trump's past behavior, your claim was pure poppycock.

In his mind he is modernizing the Presidency..... traditional ceremonies carry almost no value with him, it is time to think about now...all the problems we have now, and tomorrow.

That was sheer, unadulterated b.s.

Try harder.
 

Hawkeye10

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Yes, I understand we're talking about why the fanfare-craving Trump turned down two recent opportunities to bask in reflected military glory.

Given Trump's past behavior, your claim was pure poppycock.



That was sheer, unadulterated b.s.

Try harder.

Why?

You are not participating, there is nothing here for me.
 

Xelor

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It is not fine, but this is Trump, this is what we get.

In his mind he is modernizing the Presidency..... traditional ceremonies carry almost no value with him, it is time to think about now...all the problems we have now, and tomorrow.

These are desperate times.

Act Accordingly.
Red:
  • I suppose in one respect one can say that of Trump for he's unempathetic, selfish and self-aggrandizing enough that ceremony that he can't tilt to fete of himself is indeed of no value to him.
  • On the other hand, the man adores being the center of attention, "sucking all the air from a room," and having others "put on the dog" and lay red carpets to honor him, so in that sense, ceremony is of great value to him.
 

Amelia

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You do understand that we are talking about Trump turning down chances for pomp and fanfare...why he does that....

Consistency is important if you want me to take you seriously.

You need to think things through.


Oh, and I don't want you to take me seriously. I don't know if you take anything seriously. You surely don't take yourself seriously when you're spinning your silliness about Trump. It was just so very ... silly ... I couldn't help pointing and laughing.
 

Hawkeye10

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Red:
  • I suppose in one respect one can say that of Trump for he's unempathetic, selfish and self-aggrandizing enough that ceremony that he can't tilt to fete of himself is indeed of no value to him.
  • On the other hand, the man adores being the center of attention, "sucking all the air from a room," and having others "put on the dog" and lay red carpets to honor him, so in that sense, ceremony is of great value to him.

Trump has never given a damn about ceremony, being the center of attention is not about ceremony, it is about power.

I am a little surprised that you dont know this.
 

Xelor

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Trump has never given a damn about ceremony, being the center of attention is not about ceremony, it is about power.

I am a little surprised that you dont know this.
rotflmao.gif
 

Felis Leo

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Trump did it in France and then again on Veteran's Day here in the US. What do you say trumpsters? Do you support a president who doesn't honor those who fell in war?

That is a good question, bearpoker. If you believe that a President is a figure inhabiting an office that is to be idolized, certainly, it is a disgrace. If you believe the president is merely the chief magistrate of the Federal Executive Branch, it is an irrelevancy and has little to nothing to do with his governance whether he went or not; it is of no greater concern than if the head of your local DMV went to a Memorial observance of the fallen. A nice gesture, but certainly nothing that affects his or her governance of the Department. From my perspective, I did not personally care when President Obama engaged in acts of outrage and disrespect towards our country that were overblown by right-wing pundits. Certainly not when he was actually pursuing policies that I believed harmed our country's interests. I am not going to get bent out of shape when Donald Trump personally behaves in a flippant or disrespectful manner. I am more concerned with how he governs, just as I was with President Obama.

As a personal aside, when I became an atheist, I found myself becoming far more worshipful of civic institutions and fonts of Earthly power. Perhaps I was unconsciously filling the void left where God and faith inhabited. Now, as I see it, I am becoming more and more ambivalent towards power and institutions, and I understand the distrust that early philosophical Christians and other ascetic sects have towards them. The idolatry of power is dangerous, and I think Donald Trump serves as a valuable object lesson of this. If he wakes us up to the fact that it is virtue rather than power that is worthy of admiration, all the better.

That aside, I would ask you: What do you think the office of the Presidency is for? Is it merely administrative? Or do you believe the office is more numinous?
 
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Xelor

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That is a good question, bearpoker. If you believe that a President is a figure inhabiting an office that is to be idolized, certainly, it is a disgrace. If you believe the president is merely the chief magistrate of the Federal Executive Branch, it is an irrelevancy and has little to nothing to do with his governance whether he went or not; it is of no greater concern than if the head of your local DMV went to a Memorial observance of the fallen. A nice gesture, but certainly nothing that affects his or her governance of the Department. From my perspective, I did not personally care when President Obama engaged in acts of outrage and disrespect towards our country that were overblown by right-wing pundits. Certainly not when he was actually pursuing policies that I believed harmed our country's interests. I am not going to get bent out of shape when Donald Trump personally behaves in a flippant or disrespectful manner. I am more concerned with how he governs, just as I was with President Obama.

As a personal aside, when I became an atheist, I found myself becoming far more worshipful of civic institutions and fonts of Earthly power. Perhaps I was unconsciously filling the void left where God and faith inhabited. Now, as I see it, I am becoming more and more ambivalent towards power and institutions, and I understand the distrust that early philosophical Christians and other ascetic sects have towards them. The idolatry of power is dangerous, and I think Donald Trump serves as a valuable object lesson of this. If he wakes us up to the fact that it is virtue rather than power that is worthy of admiration, all the better.

That aside, I would ask you: What do you think the office of the Presidency is for? Is it merely administrative? Or do you believe the office is more numinous?
Red:
Your diction doesn't at all comport expressly with my own conception of the US presidency, but I suspect the general sentiments you had in mind when choosing it do. Without belaboring the dictional differences I have in mind, the short is I think a POTUS and the presidency must be both and more and be damn good at all of them, excellent at a few and mediocre to poor at none. Some examples include:
  • Role model
  • Chief administrator
  • "Consoler in Chief"
  • Commander in Chief
  • Defender of the highest standards of decorum and character
  • Defender of the Constitution, from both strict and loose constructionist standpoints
  • Representative, on the world stage, of all Americans
  • Leader, parent and teacher
  • Manager of people and processes
  • Innovator
 

Nickyjo

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I am trying to explain Trump to you.

Your lack of interest is noted.

Best explanation of Trump was in a clip I saw of him in a Medal of Freedom awards ceremony. Elvis was one of the recipients, and they played a few bars of the King singing “How great Thou art.” Trump’s expression and action suggested he thought the song was about him. Of course, he could have been spoofing himself.
 

Irwin Corey

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Is it okay for the POTUS to skip honoring the follen in battle?


Perfect, I don't want General Bone Spurs near my fathers grave.
 
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