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Is it ok for Dr's to lie to patients to prevent an abortion?

Is it ok for Dr's to lie to patients to prevent an abortion?

  • Yes...

    Votes: 4 8.2%
  • No...

    Votes: 45 91.8%

  • Total voters
    49
Calling something by a different name does not change what it is.

Murder - The unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another

You can think it's wrong.

But calling it murder is incorrect because it is not unlawful.
 
Unjust killing of an innocent human being. Call it “murder”, or call it “abortion”, or call it by any other name; it's still the same thing.

No, you call it what it is. It is abortion. Calling it something else is equivocating definitions, and presenting an appeal to emotion logical fallacy. Your choice to call it something else is inaccurate and irrelevant to fact.
 
OB's should not withold info.

Prenatal testing and informing the patient of the results is "Standard of Care" for OBs - Period
 
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It is not okay for a doctor to lie to a patient under nearly any circumstances. The only permissible time is when lying is absolutely necessary to save the patient's life. And only the patient, not the patient's unborn child.

Not even in those cases. The doctor is not entitled to replace his judgement for the patient's even when the patient's life is at stake so long as the patient is mentally capable of making decisions. If a Jehovah Witness doesn't want a blood transplant, or anyone of any religion, no doctor should get away with lying to them in order to give that treatment.
 
The unborn child is a patient, just as that child's mother is. A doctor treating a pregnant woman has two patients, and any ethical doctor will be concerned for the well-being of both.

But even if that were not so, it's always ethical to lie, or commit any other minor wrong, in order to prevent a much greater evil. It is certainly ethical to lie in order to protect an innocent person from someone who seeks to unjustly take that person's life.

If I knew that there was someone who wanted to murder my neighbor, and that would-be killer asked me if I knew where that neighbor was, I would lie, if necessary, in order to obstruct the would-killer from finding his intended victim. It has nothing to do with whether or not any kind of professional relationship exists between me and the neighbor. If I were to tell someone where my neighbor was, knowing that the person to whom I was telling that intended to murder my neighbor, this would make me a willing accessory to that murder.

A doctor, telling a pregnant woman that her child has a condition such as Down's syndrome, knowing that that woman intends to murder the child if the child has such a condition, would similarly be a willing accessory to that murder.


When did fetuses make payments to doctors for services rendered? And how did they give consent for the treatments they get?

Differentiate between your fantasy and reality.
 
I do not understand how there can even be any question here. Just because there MAY be something wrong with fetus that does not mean the mother will want an abortion. This whole idea is premised on the notion that all women will want an abortion if something is wrong with the fetus. I have not read much of this thread, but is there a provision about the possibility that the sickness of the fetus may affect the health of the mother? That would be like a doctor not revealing that you have cancer.

Does the United States Consumer Bill of Rights and Responsibilities have no bearing here?

Consumer Bill of Rights & Responsibilities: Chapter 4: Participation in Treatment Decisions

Consumers have the right and responsibility to fully participate in all decisions related to their health care. Consumers who are unable to fully participate in treatment decisions have the right to be represented by parents, guardians, family members, or other conservators

If we are going to claim that the fetus is a child then the parents can represent them as they cannot take part in their medical decisions.
 
The unborn child is a patient, just as that child's mother is. A doctor treating a pregnant woman has two patients, and any ethical doctor will be concerned for the well-being of both.

You keep saying this, but I don't necessarily agree that to be the law...do you or this just your opinion?
 
When did the patients of any pediatrician make payments or give consent?

The parent or legal guardian gives conset for a child.
The parent or guardian would also need to be informed of any medcal treatment the child may need.
 
The civil trial jury. Or....even a criminal one in certain circumstances.

I disagree totally, ALL INFORMATION IS RELEVANT.
why? because its MINE

and why I disagree is because if your taking him to trial im guessing its TOO LATE and the damage is done. No thanks, the doctor is to tell me any and all info NOW he doesnt get to keep anything from me.
 
The unborn child is a patient, just as that child's mother is. A doctor treating a pregnant woman has two patients, and any ethical doctor will be concerned for the well-being of both.

But even if that were not so, it's always ethical to lie, or commit any other minor wrong, in order to prevent a much greater evil. It is certainly ethical to lie in order to protect an innocent person from someone who seeks to unjustly take that person's life.

If I knew that there was someone who wanted to murder my neighbor, and that would-be killer asked me if I knew where that neighbor was, I would lie, if necessary, in order to obstruct the would-killer from finding his intended victim. It has nothing to do with whether or not any kind of professional relationship exists between me and the neighbor. If I were to tell someone where my neighbor was, knowing that the person to whom I was telling that intended to murder my neighbor, this would make me a willing accessory to that murder.

A doctor, telling a pregnant woman that her child has a condition such as Down's syndrome, knowing that that woman intends to murder the child if the child has such a condition, would similarly be a willing accessory to that murder.

no in this country on planet earth only in your fantasy land LMAO
 
Again, it's sad that you are so extreme in your position that you can't see what harm you would be doing to our healthcare system. Shame on you.

i think he sees it, he simply just doesnt care about anybody else but his own bias opinions, who cares about the rest of his fellow american's rights and freedoms only his opinions matter thats why its so shameful and hugely hypocritical
 
Words have meanings. It's not murder. It's abortion.

Some people simply are logical, objective, rational and perceptive enough to realize this fact, they would much rather make things up no matter how true and no matter how many facts prove them wrong :shrug: Words and their definition are meaningless to somebody blindly bias.
 
Here are a few thoughts from a lady in Kansas:
Having worked for years with women making the painful and difficult decision to end a wanted pregnancy due to a life-threatening condition for mother or baby, I am personally upset by that aspect of the bill. However, I understand that some people are morally opposed to that decision, and that is not what bothers me most.

I am disturbed and saddened by the thought of children with serious and complicated medical issues being born without their families knowing about the condition in advance. They will get no advance education, meet with no doctors to discuss a plan of care, never see the inside of a NICU until their baby is already born. Not only that, but the babies themselves will suffer. Some of these children require immediate, high-level medical care that can only be offered at properly equipped hospitals. If a family is unaware of a baby's serious medical condition, the child could be born at a small community hospital totally unprepared to care for a special needs infant. The time it takes to diagnose and transfer a baby to a proper, tertiary care center could be too long.

To me, it is criminal that an infant's life could be knowingly put at risk by a physician. It is unethical, and certainly violates the Hippocratic oath. I can only hope the doctors of Kansas have higher ethical standards and moral compasses than the politicians obviously do.

Kansas Law May Allow Doctors to Lie to Pregnant Women
 
Here are a few thoughts from a lady in Kansas:


Kansas Law May Allow Doctors to Lie to Pregnant Women

well its pretty simple actually. Anybody with an understanding of how this country works, how health care works and aware of peoples current rights, freedoms and liberties clearly understands how dangerous, destructive and criminal it would be to allow doctors to lie or "withhold" information. Nobody rational on this subject wants this and they are simply being dishonesty in an attempt to support their alternative motives and agendas. Funny when I ask the question about where does it end and provide examples I got no answers or they say "thats different" LMAO could a person be more dishonest. Its a shame some people value their own bias opinion so much they would gladly infringe on the rights and freedoms of others :shrug: oh well
 
If we are going to claim that the fetus is a child then the parents can represent them as they cannot take part in their medical decisions.

I take pretty grave issue with parents being the representatives of their offspring when it becomes apparent they intend to kill their offspring.



Also, again, I don't think this article title jives with the text, and I flatly suggest that we wait for the text of the bill to become available instead of speculating blindly.

Really, a poll wasn't needed either, and even the poll itself is misleading / not representative of the issue at hand.




Regardless of what the bill in question says, I still believe physicians should be both ethical, and upfront about it.
 
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Great post! Thanks for finding that...

Thanks-
Some people are so blinded by thought of a possible abortion that they forget that parents need all the info available to prepare in advance for a baby with serious and complicated medical issues.

Very sad indeed.
 
I take pretty grave issue with parents being the representatives of their offspring when it becomes apparent they intend to kill their offspring.



Also, again, I don't think this article title jives with the text, and I flatly suggest that we wait for the text of the bill to become available instead of speculating blindly.

Really, a poll wasn't needed either, and even the poll itself is misleading / not representative of the issue at hand.




Regardless of what the bill in question says, I still believe physicians should be both ethical, and upfront about it.

The poll isn't misleading and is a direct representation of the law...just because you want to impose YOUR beliefs on others, doesn't mean we should allow you to or not even discuss it...

how would the dr know the parents intend to abort the fetus? Assume?
 
Here are a few thoughts from a lady in Kansas:

Kansas Law May Allow Doctors to Lie to Pregnant Women

This media outlet's interpretation of the Kansas law is so egregious that I refuse to believe it until I see the actual text in the bill. Ya'll shouldn't believe it either. Doctors cannot lie. Doctors cannot impose their moral/ethical values on their patients. Where's the text from the law?

Know what this reminds me of? Remember when Obamacare was being considered? Remember all the crap emails going around that completely slanted it? This crap is no different. Where's the text of the bill??? Do not let yourselves be led around by the nose at the whims of questionable news sources who opine while, at the same time, not providing actual quotes from the legislation!
 
The poll isn't misleading and is a direct representation of the law...just because you want to impose YOUR beliefs on others, doesn't mean we should allow you to or not even discuss it...

how would the dr know the parents intend to abort the fetus? Assume?

Again... have you read the article? We can't quote the entire article here it's against the TOS.

The article directly contradicts the title.

Furthermore, virtually no one wants physicians to LIE, and the author of the bill's comments don't jive at all with this interpretation. This bill is probably more about what (presumably) happened in Oregon with the nearly $3M lawsuit for wrongful birth. As far as I know, no one in that case deliberately lied or withheld information. I think you'll find people more receptive to that sort of thing. And based on the text of the article and other sources, that is what the bill appears to be about.

And I think you know that some dishonorable people like to employ deception in politics, as well...


The poll / thread title is misleading in terms of how it represents the bill in question. The website has a misleading title. I just want you to step back for a minute, be objective, read the article, and come to this realization...
 
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Again... have you read the article? We can't quote the entire article here it's against the TOS.

The article directly contradicts the title.

Furthermore, virtually no one wants physicians to LIE, and the author of the bill's comments don't jive at all with this interpretation. This bill is probably more about what (presumably) happened in Oregon with the nearly $3M lawsuit for wrongful birth. As far as I know, no one in that case deliberately lied or withheld information. I think you'll find people more receptive to that sort of thing. And based on the text of the article and other sources, that is what the bill appears to be about.

And I think you know that some dishonorable people like to employ deception in politics, as well...


The poll / thread title is misleading in terms of how it represents the bill in question. The website has a misleading title. I just want you to step back for a minute, be objective, read the article, and come to this realization...

I have read this article as well as several others...have you done any other research?...

This is from the AP...sheesh..(is the AP not a reliable source? I posted this in #50)


"The Arizona Senate has approved a bill that would shield doctors and others from so-called “wrongful birth” lawsuits.

Those are lawsuits that can arise if physicians don’t inform pregnant women of prenatal problems that could lead to the decision to have an abortion."

What is so hard to understand about this? If the dr sees that the unborn fetus has down's syndrome and doesn't tell the parents, this law says the dr can't be sued for withholding that info...THAT IS LYING!!!..and the state is condoning it...
 
I have read this article as well as several others...have you done any other research?...

This is from the AP...sheesh..(is the AP not a reliable source? I posted this in #50)


"The Arizona Senate has approved a bill that would shield doctors and others from so-called “wrongful birth” lawsuits.

Those are lawsuits that can arise if physicians don’t inform pregnant women of prenatal problems that could lead to the decision to have an abortion."

What is so hard to understand about this? If the dr sees that the unborn fetus has down's syndrome and doesn't tell the parents, this law says the dr can't be sued for withholding that info...THAT IS LYING!!!..and the state is condoning it...

while I agree we should hold complete judgment until the actual bill is out the title does NOT misrepresent what the article says.
 
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