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Is it Fair Play to Hold the Debt Ceiling Hostage?

Is it Fair Play to Hold the Debt Ceiling Hostage?


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aberrant85

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Here's a rather frightening article about the repercussions of a credit default:

Wall Street to GOP: Are you nuts? - Ben White - POLITICO.com

"A brief shutdown would have some negative economic effects and could create political blowback on the GOP. But it would cause far less long-term damage than a default, which would likely send interest rates sky-rocketing, crush the stock market, devastate business and consumer confidence, and probably send the nation’s economy hurtling back into recession if not depression."

Let's say you and your brother go out for dinner. Your brother's behind the wheel. He wants Mexican, and you want Italian. You can't convince him and he can't convince you along the way. As you near a sharp curve, he keeps his foot on the gas and demands you give in to Mexican or he'll drive you both off the road.

All bias aside, is this not what House Republicans are doing? They had two years in the last Congress to push their ideas. They failed to pass their agenda through the Senate and signed into law by the President. They lost seats in the election. They've had another 9 months to argue their ideas, with even less to show for it. Now that there is no time for debate, they are demanding their ideas be enacted or they will allow a catastrophic default on the US Government's debt.

Is it out of bounds to demand this when you have not been able to convince your fellow Congressmen to support your ideas when there was time to debate them? Or is using the threat of disaster a legitimate political tool?
 
Yeah that is pretty much what is happening. Hard to believe more are not upset with this. If they get their way this time you can bet they will try it again. The Tea Party is the American Taliban.
 
The GOP has already stated that Social Security is next, then Medicare, then Medicaid. This is just the beginning of their hostage taking.
 
The GOP has already stated that Social Security is next, then Medicare, then Medicaid. This is just the beginning of their hostage taking.

time to make the tenth amendment mean something
 
All negotiations have some basic components. One component is leverage. No good negotiator removes the leverage he holds from the debate until a satisfactory compromise has been met.
 
Why do we have a debt ceiling? If congress is just supposed to automatically raise the limit every time we hit the ceiling no questions asked it seems a silly thing to have. Yet, we have it. Using it as a negotiation tool may very well be the reason we have it?
 
Here's a rather frightening article about the repercussions of a credit default:

Wall Street to GOP: Are you nuts? - Ben White - POLITICO.com

"A brief shutdown would have some negative economic effects and could create political blowback on the GOP. But it would cause far less long-term damage than a default, which would likely send interest rates sky-rocketing, crush the stock market, devastate business and consumer confidence, and probably send the nation’s economy hurtling back into recession if not depression."

Let's say you and your brother go out for dinner. Your brother's behind the wheel. He wants Mexican, and you want Italian. You can't convince him and he can't convince you along the way. As you near a sharp curve, he keeps his foot on the gas and demands you give in to Mexican or he'll drive you both off the road.

All bias aside, is this not what House Republicans are doing? They had two years in the last Congress to push their ideas. They failed to pass their agenda through the Senate and signed into law by the President. They lost seats in the election. They've had another 9 months to argue their ideas, with even less to show for it. Now that there is no time for debate, they are demanding their ideas be enacted or they will allow a catastrophic default on the US Government's debt.

Is it out of bounds to demand this when you have not been able to convince your fellow Congressmen to support your ideas when there was time to debate them? Or is using the threat of disaster a legitimate political tool?

The electorate will hold the Republicans responsible and they are. They can do this and it will cost us billions of dollars. The best part of the last time the Repubs did this is that sequestration was initiated. Wowser, a 10% cut in Military Offense and a backfire to the Repub war hawks. A backhand upside the old cerebellum. I hope it happens again. More budget cuts to the military. Sounds good to me.
 
The tenth has already caused one civil war and is pushing us toward another.

Kick over the wall
cause governments to fall
how can you refuse it
Let fury have the hour
anger can be power
you know you can use it!
 
Kick over the wall
cause governments to fall
how can you refuse it
Let fury have the hour
anger can be power
you know you can use it!

The real question is who is holding the debt ceiling hostage? There is a bill in the Senate which will fund government till the next crisis. Mostly what the Pres and the dems wanted, except for the about half of Obamacare which he has already put on hold or granted an exemption.
 
The real question is who is holding the debt ceiling hostage? There is a bill in the Senate which will fund government till the next crisis. Mostly what the Pres and the dems wanted, except for the about half of Obamacare which he has already put on hold or granted an exemption.

The bill to fund the government and raising the debt ceiling are two different things.
 
The real question is who is holding the debt ceiling hostage? There is a bill in the Senate which will fund government till the next crisis. Mostly what the Pres and the dems wanted, except for the about half of Obamacare which he has already put on hold or granted an exemption.

The obamatardation over this abomination is a real joke. The clown in chief doesn't have the authority to delay or change the law that was duly passed and sustained by four lapdogs and one "creative thinker" on the supreme court.
 
The electorate will hold the Republicans responsible and they are. They can do this and it will cost us billions of dollars. The best part of the last time the Repubs did this is that sequestration was initiated. Wowser, a 10% cut in Military Offense and a backfire to the Repub war hawks. A backhand upside the old cerebellum. I hope it happens again. More budget cuts to the military. Sounds good to me.

If the electorate holds the only party that has actually passed a budget and put forward compromise legislation, only to have one man, namely Harry Reid, refuse to allow senate deliberation on the compromise position. I'd say the electorate is either deceived, ignorant or stupid.
 
The bill to fund the government and raising the debt ceiling are two different things.

No its not.Raising the debt ceiling is asking to borrow more money to fund the government.
 
We are witnessing the death of the GOP. Before all this is said and done, they will be split and down to about 20% support.

Remember, not only are htey against sanity, they are still at war against women.

..and contraception
House Republicans have added a measure aimed at limiting contraceptive coverage to the spending bill coming up for a vote Saturday night, a spokesman for Rep. Tim Huelskamp, R-Kansas, told CNN.

A senior House leadership aide confirmed that development.

The so-called “conscience clause” would allow employers and insurers to opt out of preventative care for women which they find objectionable on moral or religious grounds. That prominently includes birth control...

GOP adds ‘conscience clause’ to spending bill – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs


Sit back and enjoy the carnage. If a party ever deserved to die, it's this gang of idiots.
 
We are witnessing the death of the GOP. Before all this is said and done, they will be split and down to about 20% support.

Remember, not only are htey against sanity, they are still at war against women.

..and contraception



Sit back and enjoy the carnage. If a party ever deserved to die, it's this gang of idiots.

There's no law against stupid. HEHEHE. Ain't no rocket scientists in our gov't. Of any party.
 
If the electorate holds the only party that has actually passed a budget and put forward compromise legislation, only to have one man, namely Harry Reid, refuse to allow senate deliberation on the compromise position. I'd say the electorate is either deceived, ignorant or stupid.
The election of Obama pretty much confirmed you are correct
 
The bill to fund the government and raising the debt ceiling are two different things.

Poll: Is it Fair Play to Hold the Debt Ceiling Hostage?

No it's not. The problem is the government cannot fund itself without borrowing funds. It cannot borrow without raising the debt ceiling. House has authorized borrowing for all government expenditures except Obamacare, which would be taking on new debt.

If you can't pay what you already owe, it makes no sense to take on new debt.
 
The election of Obama pretty much confirmed you are correct

Right because McPalin and the Mormon were such wonderful options :roll:
 
Right because McPalin and the Mormon were such wonderful options :roll:


Romney was far better in most areas. I realize to the gay rights are the most important issue crowd, Obama was a better choice. On stuff that concerns most intelligent Americans, Romney was better. he sure is smarter and has actually accomplished things other than winning elections
 
No its not.Raising the debt ceiling is asking to borrow more money to fund the government.

Yes, it is two separate things. They are two different pieces of legislation.

The "funding the government" bill authorizes future expenditures. Raises the debt ceiling authorizes borrowing to pay current expenditures.
 
We are witnessing the death of the GOP. Before all this is said and done, they will be split and down to about 20% support.

Remember, not only are htey against sanity, they are still at war against women.

..and contraception



Sit back and enjoy the carnage. If a party ever deserved to die, it's this gang of idiots.

If that is true, why are all the Liberals so angry? Shouldn't they all be out drinking Shirley Temples or something? In actuality, what we are witnessing is exponentially increasing hysteria and desperation from the endlessly braying Liberals as their beloved messiah accumulates a record of embarrassing worldwide failures unparalleled in American history.
 
If that is true, why are all the Liberals so angry?

Because, quite frankly, most "liberals" don't like the fact that the supposed conservative wing of our legislature has been taken over by political nihilists and utter fruitcakes. I'd prefer a functioning Congress, thanks.

Shouldn't they all be out drinking Shirley Temples or something?

Beer for me, thanks.

In actuality, what we are witnessing is exponentially increasing hysteria and desperation from the endlessly braying Liberals as their beloved messiah accumulates a record of embarrassing worldwide failures unparalleled in American history.

What a crock.
 
Because, quite frankly, most "liberals" don't like the fact that the supposed conservative wing of our legislature has been taken over by political nihilists and utter fruitcakes. I'd prefer a functioning Congress, thanks.



Beer for me, thanks.



What a crock.

so were you saying the same thing when petulant whining liberals say derailed Miguel Estrada's appointment to the DC circuit bench because of racist reasons?
 
so were you saying the same thing when petulant whining liberals say derailed Miguel Estrada's appointment to the DC circuit bench because of racist reasons?

Yes, clearly keeping Estrada off the D.C. Circuit bench* and holding a gun to the head of the economy are comparable.

* -- which no, I did not agree with their reasoning, the fact that he was a raving wingnut was good enough for me to keep him off without them playing political football with his ethnicity, although to call the reasoning "racist" is a stretch. His race was politically inconvenient; it's not like Democrats are anti-Latino judges.
 
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