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Is it a males place?

mikhail

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You hear people banging on about abortion but i ask this simple question.

Why should a man be able to complain at a women having an abortion who they had nothing to do with.

Its easy for us to say your evil your a murderer blah blah blah but its easy to tell someone off for a pain and a deed you will never ever have to commit yourself.

Although i think if you are the father you should have input how is it anyone Else's decision.
 

blogger31

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So would you say the same thing about child abuse. It is not your child so what place do you have getting involved. Basically a wrong is being done. Why did whites get involved in the abolitionist movement? They were never going to be slaves and if they didn't like it they didn't have to own slaves. BTW I am pro-life and have never told anyone they are a murderer or evil for having an abortion.
 

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going by your logic, no American should be able to complain about the war in Iraq because they arent Iraqi. in fact, i dont think men get enough say in this.
 

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FiremanRyan said:
going by your logic, no American should be able to complain about the war in Iraq because they arent Iraqi. in fact, i dont think men get enough say in this.
You got it right on the nose there. I wonder why a man does not have the right to choice when it comes to fatherhood. Shouldn't he be allowed within a certain time frame to abort his paternal responsibility? As it stands now the woman can decide and the man is basically at the mercy of her decision.

Reminds me of that case where the woman had her boyfriend step on her stomach, he was charged with a crime, but she got off because they said a woman has a right to choose. Didn't make a lick of sense to me.
 

26 X World Champs

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blogger31 said:
You got it right on the nose there. I wonder why a man does not have the right to choice when it comes to fatherhood. Shouldn't he be allowed within a certain time frame to abort his paternal responsibility? As it stands now the woman can decide and the man is basically at the mercy of her decision.
Surely you can see that it is absurd for anyone to tell a woman what to do? For example, using your "logic" let's flip it, meaning that if the woman wants to keep the baby but the man wants to abort it, does that mean she has to have an abortion?

I am 100% sure that a man will NEVER have any legal say in what will always be a woman's choice....
 

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26 X World Champs said:
Surely you can see that it is absurd for anyone to tell a woman what to do? For example, using your "logic" let's flip it, meaning that if the woman wants to keep the baby but the man wants to abort it, does that mean she has to have an abortion?

I am 100% sure that a man will NEVER have any legal say in what will always be a woman's choice....
youve flipped the analogy into something completely different. she doesnt have to have the abortion if he says so, just as she doesnt have to keep it if he wants her to. although im pro-life, if its going to happen it should be a decision between both parents, men and women. until girls can start poppin em out on their own, its not a 'womans choice'.

are you saying that if you and your wife were getting a divorce and she wanted to take full custody of the kids that you would just say ok, its a womans choice. i mean afterall, she birthed them right?
 
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mikhail

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FiremanRyan said:
going by your logic, no American should be able to complain about the war in Iraq because they arent Iraqi. in fact, i dont think men get enough say in this.
Thats not the point at all its easy to talk about abortoin when your a man because you will never ever actually have to make that decision yourself.

You cant compare that to iraq at all because its not a personnel issue
 

FiremanRyan

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well its easy to talk about the need in Iraq for a US invasion when you've never lived there, it isnt personal.

its a loose example but what i meant to say is that if abortion is a women-only issue, then why arent many other things isolated only to those who they effect as well?
 

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26 X World Champs said:
Surely you can see that it is absurd for anyone to tell a woman what to do? For example, using your "logic" let's flip it, meaning that if the woman wants to keep the baby but the man wants to abort it, does that mean she has to have an abortion?
OK let's do flip it. My answer is no, the woman is willing to have the child so the father can just abort his rights and take a hike, and the woman can have the child. I am not quite sure what is so hard to understand here.
 

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mikhail said:
Thats not the point at all its easy to talk about abortoin when your a man because you will never ever actually have to make that decision yourself.

You cant compare that to iraq at all because its not a personnel issue
Nonsense, men make that decision with a woman everyday. Just because they are not the one carrying the child does not mean they are not affected by it and should have no say. If that child was born they would have equal responsibility.
 

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mikhail said:
You hear people banging on about abortion but i ask this simple question.

Why should a man be able to complain at a women having an abortion who they had nothing to do with.

Its easy for us to say your evil your a murderer blah blah blah but its easy to tell someone off for a pain and a deed you will never ever have to commit yourself.

Although i think if you are the father you should have input how is it anyone Else's decision.
Why should a man be able to complain at a women having an abortion who they had nothing to do with.[/QUOTE
]

It has nothing to do with whether its a man or a woman..........Its all about the murdering of and innocent defenseless baby in the womb........If not for that i could care less what a woman does with her body........
 

Busta

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mikhail said:
You hear people banging on about abortion but i ask this simple question.

Why should a man be able to complain at a women having an abortion who they had nothing to do with.

Its easy for us to say your evil your a murderer blah blah blah but its easy to tell someone off for a pain and a deed you will never ever have to commit yourself.

Although i think if you are the father you should have input how is it anyone Else's decision.
*Because Christian Men with their Evil Penises of Death want to suppress Women by violating their bodies and grinding a Woman's spirit into a fine white powder to be snorted at the next N.R.A. meeting .*

Ultimate right and wrong is not relative, it is universal; So everyone gets a say.
Legally, women have all the authority and no responsibility while men have no authority and all responsibility.
When you choose to have sex with someone you are choosing to accept the possibility of starting a family.
Abortion is nothing more than a grizzly cop-out of your responcability to your children.
If you do not want children and lack the self control to keep it in your pants then get yourself fixed.

p.s. Why can a wife get her tubes tied independent of her Husbands opinion, yet a Husband must acquire written permission from his wife in order to get a Vasectomy?
 
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Busta

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I tried to get one in Colorado in 2000. They slipped the permission slip in with all the other usual wavers & paperwork. When I told the clinic that I wasn't going to have my wife sign it because "It's my body, my choice", they told me that my wife had a right to have as many children as she wanted. So to avoid the possibility of a man's wife suing a clinic for performing a vasectomy and denying her reproductive rights, he has to have his wife sign a waver.
I told them to go **** them selfs.
I hit the same wall in Ca. and N.Y.
I don't have a link or anything for you but I know some Dude made headlines a couple years ago in Co. when he placed an add in the paper for a Doc. to perform a Vasectomy on him w/o his Wifes permission.
His wife supported his position, by the way.
 

Busta

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Come to think of it, I asked the delivery Doc. when my youngest was about to be born @ 2 years ago in S.D. She came into the room with the papers for my wife to give permission to the hospital to tie her tubes after the birth. I asked the Doc. if a Man needed his wife's permission for a Vasectomy and she said yes. I asked her why and she told me that she wasn't sure but that it was hospital policy.
 
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26 X World Champs

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FiremanRyan said:
are you saying that if you and your wife were getting a divorce and she wanted to take full custody of the kids that you would just say ok, its a womans choice. i mean afterall, she birthed them right?
I do not think it's the same thing. When a woman is pregnant the fetus is inside her body. When a couple gets divorced the children are born, not inside the woman.

Here's a great example for you. Let's say a married couple are expecting, and they get divorced BEFORE the baby is born. Do you think the Dad has any chance of getting custody of the unborn child? That would make an interesting piece of science, you know?
 

ShamMol

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Busta said:
I don't have a link or anything for you but I know some Dude made headlines a couple years ago in Co. when he placed an add in the paper for a Doc. to perform a Vasectomy on him w/o his Wifes permission.
His wife supported his position, by the way.
Basically, it is to prevent liability, which I am sure you got by now, but I doubt you realize the extent of this in all of society. It isn't in just this country either-it is in a lot of civilized country. Basically, the doctor doesn't want to take responsibility for a procedure when you have a wife. The wife could then sue saying the doc had taken away her liberty of having children and reap in the Doctor's personal money as it is not malpractice, which means huge losses.

I mean, it is now standard in some offices to require people who are going out or even thinking of going out to sign contracts saying that they will not sue the office. That is how concious a lot of people have gotten about it.

Another solution is for the wife to make a verbal contract with the doctor saying she won't sue with at least two witnesses present. That would theoretically be enough to satisfy the doctor without having to sign a contract or waiver form.
 

Kelzie

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I think it's all a load of crap! It's just as bad as a man telling a woman what to do with her body.
 

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i agree that its none of our business what a woman does to her own body , but when it invovles another life it becomes everyone's business. a woman who chooses to get an abortion doesnt effect her body only, she also ends the life of an entirely seperate person. obviously thats a completely different debate, whether a fetus should be considered a 'life'.
 

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Navy Pride said:
It has nothing to do with whether its a man or a woman..........Its all about the murdering
Please look up the definition of murder.


Navy Pride said:
of and innocent defenseless baby in the womb........
Do you mean a foetus?


Navy Pride said:
If not for that i could care less what a woman does with her body........
That means that you don't care about abortion now. Perhaps you meant to say couldn't care less?

I knew my TEFL experience would still come in handy.
 

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galenrox said:
since when did a man need written permission to get a vasectomy? I need a source on that, cause I find that hard to believe.
I know Busta has posted some experiences of hitting a wall, but where I live after our third child I was able to get one without my wife ever signing anything. I went to see the doc without her for the consultation and all she did was drop me off for the appt and pick me up. She never had to sign anything. The only time the subject of my wife came up is when the doc asked if we had talked it over, but he never said I needed her permission, or that she needed to sign a waiver.
 

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FiremanRyan said:
well its easy to talk about the need in Iraq for a US invasion when you've never lived there, it isnt personal.

its a loose example but what i meant to say is that if abortion is a women-only issue, then why arent many other things isolated only to those who they effect as well?

It wasnt so easy for the administration to talk about it since they had to really lie it up to get the american public and the congress to permit it.
 

Busta

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blogger31 said:
I know Busta has posted some experiences of hitting a wall, but where I live after our third child I was able to get one without my wife ever signing anything. I went to see the doc without her for the consultation and all she did was drop me off for the appt and pick me up. She never had to sign anything. The only time the subject of my wife came up is when the doc asked if we had talked it over, but he never said I needed her permission, or that she needed to sign a waiver.
Maybe thats it. I only have 2 kids. They might do it w/o a wife's permission if I had 3 kids.
 

blogger31

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Busta said:
Maybe thats it. I only have 2 kids. They might do it w/o a wife's permission if I had 3 kids.
Could be, I don't know. I have known some friends who only had two and didn't have an issue with wife permission. It could just be a state thing, or doctor's preference.
 

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mikhail said:
Thats not the point at all its easy to talk about abortoin when your a man because you will never ever actually have to make that decision yourself.

You cant compare that to iraq at all because its not a personnel issue

Not to be insensitive to women, becuase its horrible to have to go through a decision with such stigma as abortion, however theres realy no way you can make an arguement purely out of someones veiwpoint. If the justice system in America worked that way it would only be a matter of telling the judge at your murder hearing that he cant say your guilty becuase he isn't a women or she isn't a man. The whole point of the legal sytem is to be blind to peoples differances so that a fair and impartial decision can be made. I guess i haven't realy made mush headway in this disscusion but i just wanted to say this so that people would stop useing the point of veiw argument.
 

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TJS0110 said:
Not to be insensitive to women, becuase its horrible to have to go through a decision with such stigma as abortion, however theres realy no way you can make an arguement purely out of someones veiwpoint. If the justice system in America worked that way it would only be a matter of telling the judge at your murder hearing that he cant say your guilty becuase he isn't a women or she isn't a man. The whole point of the legal sytem is to be blind to peoples differances so that a fair and impartial decision can be made. I guess i haven't realy made mush headway in this disscusion but i just wanted to say this so that people would stop useing the point of veiw argument.
I concur. Well said.
 
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