Is Homosexuality Considered Abnormal?

[Kandahar]

My catholic beliefs have very little to do with any of my views on homosexuality......

Actually that comment was specifically directed at pstdkid, who claims to know God's opinion (which coincidentally is the same as his).

But this brings up an interesting point. What possible reason is there to consider homosexuality immoral, other than religion? Even if it's "unnatural" or "abnormal" (which I would strongly argue it's not), there are lots of things we do that are unnatural. Wearing clothes isn't natural either, yet I don't see many people claiming that doing so is wrong.

 

[jallman]

Tsk tsk tsk.
I wasnt trying to place soime sort of moral value on it, I was merely defined normal in an objective way and compared homosexuality to it.

No reason for you to get your petticoat all bunched up.

Your bigoted slur is duly noted. I merely made the observation that your reference point for abnormality is flawed when you consider the normal sexual practices of most westerners. I would venture that the necessity on your part to make such a distasteful reply stems from having the magnifying lense held up to you for a change.

 

[Navy Pride]

Well, when I hear the absurd claims of homosexuality is based on "exposure" to whatever - that's my counter argument. What were these animals exposed to ?

What does "knowledge" have to do with sexuality?

That is your opinion and I respect it but there are a lot of people who disagree with you and say that environment does pay a part in some people in regards to their sexual preference........

Knowledge has a lot to do with sexuality.........Humans can reason in making a decision...Animals can not........

 

[Navy Pride]

Actually that comment was specifically directed at pstdkid, who claims to know God's opinion (which coincidentally is the same as his).

But this brings up an interesting point. What possible reason is there to consider homosexuality immoral, other than religion? Even if it's "unnatural" or "abnormal" (which I would strongly argue it's not), there are lots of things we do that are unnatural. Wearing clothes isn't natural either, yet I don't see many people claiming that doing so is wrong.

That is his opinion and your argument is with him, not me...........

As I have said whether you be straight or gay the sexual acts that gays partake in are abnormal in my mind for the obvious reasons.............

 

[M14 Shooter]

Your bigoted slur is duly noted.

Awww... did I huwt you feewings?
Too bad.

I merely made the observation that your reference point for abnormality is flawed

It is?
Are men and women not designed to "interface" in a certain way?
This is a yes/no question.

 

[jallman]

Awww... did I huwt you feewings?
Too bad.

Oh no not at all, little man. I rarely find my feelings hurt by the flaws in other's characters.

It is?
Are men and women not designed to "interface" in a certain way?
This is a yes/no question.

This is completely irrelevant to the question at hand...abnormality of sexual practices needs to have a frame of reference before you start touting your drivel about what is normal or abnormal. The interface of men and women is hardly the sum of the interfacing of human sexuality as a whole. I merely pointed out the flaw in your yes/no question and how it doesnt pertain to the topic at all. Perhaps you should stick to conversations more your speed...like Guns God and Glory...Hallelujah!!!!

 

[M14 Shooter]

This is completely irrelevant to the question at hand

Yeah, thats what I thought. No balls.

 

[Crispy]

That is because you are trying to be politically correct...........The sex acts gays engage in, as wells straights is abnormal..........

Well I wasn't "attempting" to be PC. I was rather distinguishing between abnormal and different. I think you're right, many "acts" are "abnormal" but homosexuality or homosexual tendencies have been a part of the human race since antiquity so its hard for me to consider homosexuality "abnormal."

Personally I think its a bizarre phenomena that I just don't understand and I sit on the side of the fence that considers it an aberration of the traditional family, which I'm a firm believer in, but, I can't deny historical human tendencies and I prefer not to use language that leads one to believe homosexuality is a physical or psychological defect.

 

[saffron]

What standard are you judging "normal"? If you are judging it by heterosexuality and then calling homosexuality "abnormal", then you are saying that heterosexuality is above homosexuality and deserves greater respect. This is the issue I have with most people, they cannot think outside their own little-narrow minds. That is what saying one group of people is more normal than the other shows. It show that the person stating it is nothing but egotistical and therefore their opinions are irrelevent because they state everything soley for their own ego. No one is above any other person, regardless of their sexuality so the terms "normal" and "abnormal" do not apply.

And how could you possibly know what a "god" is judging as normal? That is more of you only feeding your own ego.

ARe you also a member of that UnitedPAckageSmasher's Forum?

 

[Stinger]

**Won't it be interesting to see if these people that believe people are born gay at birth through no fault of their own--that they might indeed consider their sex acts and life to be normal? We consider these people to have been targeted for gayness via their environment--which was no fault of their own as well, yet we believe that homosexuality is abnormal behavior.

KidTim

Interesting to postulate but since there is no evidence that someone is born homosexual and since that would not make it normal in and of itself, it's a moot arguement.

Homosexual behavior is abnormal behavior for the human species. If someone wants to engage in it that's up to them.

 

[saffron]

Homosexual behavior is abnormal behavior for the human species. If someone wants to engage in it that's up to them.

Seems to be a choice then. I have known men who are not homos but have engaged in homosexual sex.

 

[Stinger]

What standard are you judging "normal"? If you are judging it by heterosexuality and then calling homosexuality "abnormal", then you are saying that heterosexuality is above homosexuality and deserves greater respect.

No it says one is normal behavior for humans and the other is not, abnormal. Your the one trying to say it says otherwise.

This is the issue I have with most people, they cannot think outside their own little-narrow minds. That is what saying one group of people is more normal than the other shows.

No I think it shows you emotionalize it too much. Humans are a heterosexual species by definition, it is our normal behavior. To behave differently is abnormal...........what's the big deal?

It show that the person stating it is nothing but egotistical and therefore their opinions are irrelevent because they state everything soley for their own ego. No one is above any other person, regardless of their sexuality so the terms "normal" and "abnormal" do not apply.

I think what that statement shows is an inablility to defend your side of the arguement on it's merits.

And how could you possibly know what a "god" is judging as normal? That is more of you only feeding your own ego.

Well as far as my arguement goes it has nothing to do with a god. It's called nature and the developement of the species, in other words biology.

 

[Stinger]

Seems to be a choice then. I have known men who are not homos but have engaged in homosexual sex.

Sure. And it was just as abnormal behavior for them.

 

[floridaguy]

Interesting to postulate but since there is no evidence that someone is born homosexual and since that would not make it normal in and of itself, it's a moot arguement.

Homosexual behavior is abnormal behavior for the human species. If someone wants to engage in it that's up to them.

There is also no evidence that someone isn't born homosexual. I take it you think its a choice?

 

[Stinger]

There is also no evidence that someone isn't born homosexual.

Well the burden of proof is that there is, and there isn't any.

I take it you think its a choice?

"It's"? I don't believe there is a genetic homosexual, homosexuality is a behavior. Why people engage in certain behaviors can have many different "causes" but there is choice involved.

 

[Kelzie]

Well the burden of proof is that there is, and there isn't any.



"It's"? I don't believe there is a genetic homosexual, homosexuality is a behavior. Why people engage in certain behaviors can have many different "causes" but there is choice involved.

There is proof. Quite an abundance in fact. It's discussed on this thread, although I have a feeling you're going to think it a choice no matter how many studies prove you wrong. How long before people realized the world was round again?

http://www.debatepolitics.com/showthread.php?t=7430

 

[Navy Pride]

Seems to be a choice then. I have known men who are not homos but have engaged in homosexual sex.

And its just as abnormal for them...........

 

[floridaguy]

Well the burden of proof is that there is, and there isn't any.



"It's"? I don't believe there is a genetic homosexual, homosexuality is a behavior. Why people engage in certain behaviors can have many different "causes" but there is choice involved.

If its a choice and not genetic you must believe that you have the ability to make that choice also.

 

[Navy Pride]

If its a choice and not genetic you must believe that you have the ability to make that choice also.

Men do it all the time......

 

[The Real McCoy]

What standard are you judging "normal"? If you are judging it by heterosexuality and then calling homosexuality "abnormal", then you are saying that heterosexuality is above homosexuality and deserves greater respect.

No, "abnormal" does not mean "below normal." George Washington, Albert Einstein and Martin Luther King Jr. were all abnormal because they deviated from normal. It has nothing to do with superiority/inferiority

This is the issue I have with most people, they cannot think outside their own little-narrow minds. That is what saying one group of people is more normal than the other shows.

I also have an issue... an issue with people who try to water down the meaning of words.

It show that the person stating it is nothing but egotistical and therefore their opinions are irrelevent because they state everything soley for their own ego. No one is above any other person, regardless of their sexuality so the terms "normal" and "abnormal" do not apply.

Again, you confuse normal/abnormal with superior/inferior.

 

[Navy Pride]

Here is the definition of abnormal:

not normal; not typical or usual or regular or conforming to a norm;

 

[The Real McCoy]

Here is the definition of abnormal:

not normal; not typical or usual or regular or conforming to a norm;

Exactly...

 

[ptsdkid]

Environment not Genetics makes a Homo

Read it in shame you genetics supporters:

#1 From Psychiatrist Jeffrey Satinover, M.D.:

“Like all complex behavioral and mental states, homosexuality is…neither exclusively biological nor exclusively psychological, but results from an as-yet-difficult-to-quantitative mixture of genetic factors, intrauterine influences…postnatal environment (such as parent, sibling and cultural behavior), and a complex series of repeatedly reinforced choices occurring at critical phases of development.”--J. Satinover, M.D., Homosexuality and the Politics of Truth (1996). Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Books.

#2

William Byne, a psychiatrist with a doctorate in biology, and Bruce Parsons (1993) carefully analyzed all the major biological studies of homosexuality. They found none that definitively supported a biological theory of causation.--W. Byne and B. Parsons, “Human Sexual Orientation: The Biological Theories Reappraised.” Archives of General Psychiatry 50, no.3.)

#3

Psychiatrists Friedman and Downey state that “a biosychosocial model” best fits our knowledge of causation, with various combinations of temperament and environmental events leading to homosexuality. They say: Despite recent neurobiological findings suggesting homosexuality is genetically-biologically determined, credible evidence is lacking for a biological model of homosexuality.”--R. Friedman, M.D. and J. Downey, M.D. Journal of Neuropsychiatry, vol. 5, no. 2, Spring 1993.

#4 From Sociologist Steven Goldberg, Ph.D.:

“Virtually all the evidence argues against there being a determinative physiological causal factor and I know of no researcher who believes that such a determinative factor exists…such factors play a predisposing, not a determinative…I know of no one in the field who argues that homosexuality can be explained without reference to environmental factors.”

While these professionals all agree that the ‘environmental’ factors are responsible for homosexuality, one did say that a ‘genetic’ causation to homosexuality could be a possibility, a genetic model of proof has still yet to be seen or proved. I did notice the word ‘choice’ used here as well. Don’t you just love that book titled, “Homosexuality and the Politics of Truth?”

Doctor of common sense…KidTim

 

[Stinger]

There is proof. Quite an abundance in fact. It's discussed on this thread, although I have a feeling you're going to think it a choice no matter how many studies prove you wrong. How long before people realized the world was round again?

http://www.debatepolitics.com/showthread.php?t=7430

Proof of a genetic cause, that there is a physicality to homosexual behavior, no there is no proof of that. There are lots of theories about environmental causes whcih probably hold true. But that still gets to the choice of behavior. Homosexuality is not akin to race, or hair color, or even gender. Yes how long did people believe the abnormal was normal with regard to the earth, as we found out nature dictated the earth be round and homo sapiens be heterosexual beings. Can they engage in abnormal behaviors such as homosexuality? Of course.

Homosexuals and those who believe homosexuality is a normal behavior seem to get upset because the word abnormal is applied to the behavior and it is taken personally. Homosexuals for the most part are perfectly normal homo sapiens physically and mentally (although there is evidence people who engage in homosexuality suffer more mental health problems than those who do not but then did the behavior cause the mental health problems or vice versa). It's the behavior that is not normal, but abnormal.

 

[Stinger]

If its a choice and not genetic you must believe that you have the ability to make that choice also.

Yes I could make that choice, nothing is stopping me, but I don't have a desire to engage in that behavior. I believe it is wrong and abnormal behavior. I have been hit on by gay men several times in my life, I choose not to engage in sex with them. I've also known several men who had homosexual affairs but are now married in heterosexual relationships. Actually they are much younger friends of my daugther who grew up during this time of attempts to mainstream homosexuality and to convince people it is "perfectly normal", they had their own problems which led them into homosexuality but learned it was not the lifestyle they believed it was and are now very happy in thier normal mainstream lives.