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Is due process a human right? (from a moral perspective)

Is due process a human right?

  • Total voters
    69
Morals have nothing to do with it.
It is a Constitutional right in the US.
 
aociswundumho said:
I suspect you believe our rights are "granted" to us by benevolent politicians. That position is incoherent, and is equivalent to not believing human rights exist.
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Nope. Not remotely. I use the word "recognize" for a reason.

aociswundumho said:
Whatever rights you have, they cannot be "granted" to you by another person. A "granted" right is a contradiction in terms. The whole idea of a right is for you to act without permission.
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Nope, not remotely. I use the word "recognize" for a reason.

aociswundumho said:
Consider a pregnant woman's right to have an abortion. To exercise this right, must she first receive permission from the state? Of course not, because if that's the case, then her "right" to have an abortion is actually a state-granted privilege.
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When are you going to answer my questions? All you do it keep bobbing and weaving and throwing stuff out to see what sticks.

aociswundumho said:
Yes, but if the Nazis didn't violate their rights, then they didn't do anything wrong by murdering them. It would be like you killing an insect. Insects have no rights.
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Who says? When did you connect right and wrong with rights and why? "For an example", the 10 Commandments say murder is wrong...where in the Bible does it discuss rights? (note, the Bible is only an example)​
​
What about societies that dont even have the concept of rights, like the San? They still recognize right and wrong. Do the San have any rights? If so, who says? (Their national govt does now.) But...did they have rights before that?​

--and--

Do any other animal species have rights? Why or why not?​

Please answer these and you'll be closer to the answers for your questions.
 
Due Process qualifies as a Human Right in my book...



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exoplanet said:
We can use some of the language in the 5th amendment of the US Constitution as a basis for what due process is here.

"No person shall be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law"

If you have different ideas about what due process is, then answer appropriately and explain what you think is different. If you aren't satisfied with the poll options, then please explain your rationale below.

I think this is relevant now because it has become clear that some people think that this isn't a human right, but a privilege extended to certain classes of people e.g. citizens of the country where they are present. While there are legal questions about how rights are preserved and maintained in an international context but for this poll I just want to see how people feel from a moral perspective - it's not about specific legal mechanisms for enforcement.
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I don’t know how to link via my phone, but articles 7 thru 11 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights strongly suggest that due process is indeed a human right. Google UDHR to find the text.

Oops! NWRatCon already posted the UDHR link.
 
Gozaburo said:
"Human rights" in a universal sense don't exist. I'm not really sure what you're appealing to outside of the laws of a nation state to justify the seemingly universal claim of "human rights".
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Check out the text that follows “We hold these truths to be self evident…”
 
Nickyjo said:
Check out the text that follows “We hold these truths to be self evident…”
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Well if that’s what they said then it must be the case, absent any context!
 
Lursa said:
You're reduced to a lie. Sure I do. They're recognized for Americans right there in the Constitution.
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So we only have the rights which are recognized in the constitution?

Why did you write "Americans"? Human rights apply to everyone, regarding of where they were born.
 
aociswundumho said:
So we only have the rights which are recognized in the constitution?

Why did you write "Americans"? Human rights apply to everyone, regarding of where they were born.
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The COTUS is for Americans, not everyone else.
 
aociswundumho said:
So we only have the rights which are recognized in the constitution?

Why did you write "Americans"? Human rights apply to everyone, regarding of where they were born.
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Please return to post 602 and answer the questions instead of trying to start from scratch again to avoid it.
Then I'll be happy to answer yours. Your honest answers from post 602 might make yours unnecessary :) Let's find out!
 
aociswundumho said:
Ok, so we agree they are pre-existing.
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What do they pre-exist? Where did I write that? Please quote it or stop lying? Prove me wrong...you know you would if you could.

aociswundumho said:
Where do they come from?
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I've answered this many times. Post 602 was me refuting you trying to get around it. So...your turn...please respond to post 602.

Your backtracking is just you desperately doing a "rinse-repeat" of your failure.

Post 602 for reference.
 
Illegal immigrants should not be given the same rights that native or naturalized U.S. citizens have, just because they made it over here and are on our soil.
 
Lursa said:
I've answered this many times. Post 602 was me refuting you trying to get around it. So...your turn...please respond to post 602.
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No you haven't. Here's our exchange:

aociswundumho said:
I suspect you believe our rights are "granted" to us by benevolent politicians.
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Lursa said:
Nope. Not remotely. I use the word "recognize" for a reason
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If you don't believe our rights are granted to us by the by the state, then where do you believe they come from?
 
aociswundumho said:
No you haven't. Here's our exchange:





If you don't believe our rights are granted to us by the by the state, then where do you believe they come from?
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Finish responding to the rest of post 602 first. Then I'll quote where I have indeed answered that.
 
aociswundumho said:
Look, I tried. You're impossible. Go away.
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Where did you try to answer the questions in post 602? Look for the question marks. "?"

Dont lie. If you need to leave...just leave but dont pretend it's my fault.
 
aociswundumho said:
But the subject is human rights, not the constitution.
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I know what the subject is exactly.
The thread has drifted widely.
You are not a mod - stop trying to play one.
 
aociswundumho said:
Look, I tried. You're impossible. Go away.
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No need to get snippy.
The fundamental difference between Human rights and Constitutional rights is how they achieve their mandate.
Human rights do so through a religious or moral process (belief), whereas constitutional rights are derived from legal process (code).

The mandates are similar, especially since legal rights are supposed to have a founding in morals, but they are not quite the same.
So she is quite right. Human rights are not universal or natural (except in the sense that they are derived from Humans who are natural). They only apply where human decide they do, either through a legal process (like courts of Human rights) or by an appeal to morals (declarations of Human rights).

I suspect your argument is mainly about you having an internalized view of Human rights whereas she is playing around with the meta, and that in actuality you are not all that far apart.
Obviously your rape victim has rights. Whether they are granted by God/morals/the universe or by other humans is a secondary concern.
 
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