Is Donald Trump tougher on Moscow (Russia/USSR) than Ronald Reagan was?

[Hatuey]

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...ig-results-will-come-with-putin-idUSKBN1K814I

“We’re doing very well, probably as well as anybody has ever done with Russia. And there’s been no president ever as tough as I have been on Russia,” Trump told reporters before a Cabinet meeting at the White House.

Given the president's latest statements on his actions towards, Russia, I thought it should be put to a vote. Ronald Reagan dealt directly with Moscow (Former capital of the USSR/Present capital of Russia) throughout his entire tenure. Is it true that Trump has been tougher than every president before him, Reagan included? The option are as follows:

- Yes, he was tougher than every other president; Reagan included.
- No, he was not tougher than every other president; Reagan was tougher.
- No, he was not tougher than every other presidents; many others were tougher (please provide examples).
- I do not know.

Please note that this threads is for DP members only. Secondly whatever your answer is, the topic of this thread is not a discussion on whether Trump lied, but whether his statements were accurate - as such the answers reflect choices which look at the accuracy of his statements. That is because a person can be inaccurate without necessarily lying.

Discuss.

 

[Cardinal]

I suppose if you go back enough years you'll find a period in which Russia barely registered on our radar (such as, I'm assuming, pre-20th century). At that point you would probably find a President less tough on Russia.

 

[Taxman]

TRumputin is my answer.

 

[Taylor]

What do you mean by Russia/USSR?

 

[Hatuey]

What do you mean by Russia/USSR?

I mean in the sense that the USSR's rightful heir and predecessor is Russia so I do not see the reason to separate the two. Russia and USSR were used interchangeably while it existed. People from the USSR were referred to as soviets and/or Russians. This is of course colloquially speaking, historically there existed a Soviet Russia, Imperial Russia and I guess the Modern Russia. All controlled directly from Moscow.

 

[Winston]

What do you mean by Russia/USSR?

He actually means Cambodia.

 

[Taylor]

I mean in the sense that the USSR's rightful heir and predecessor is Russia so I do not see the reason to separate the two.

Fair enough. So the poll doesn't really refer to what Trump actually said, but either what you think he meant or something entirely of your own construction.

 

[Hatuey]

Fair enough. So the poll doesn't really refer to what Trump actually said, but either what you think he meant or something entirely of your own construction.

Did Trump not say that no president had ever been as tough as himself when it came to Russia? Here is the statement again:

And there’s been no president ever as tough as I have been on Russia,

Do you feel that this particular statement is true in any context? Explain which of the presidents you'd compare him to to make the argument and which ones you would not.

 

[Jredbaron96]

I suppose if you go back enough years you'll find a period in which Russia barely registered on our radar (such as, I'm assuming, pre-20th century). At that point you would probably find a President less tough on Russia.

The Russian Empire was in fact a strong supporter of the US (if behind the scenes) for much of it's co-existence with America.

 

[Jredbaron96]

What do you mean by Russia/USSR?

Russia is recognized as the legal and political successor of the CCCP by everyone in the world. It's not hard to see the connection.

 

[Taylor]

Did Trump not say that no president had ever been as tough as himself when it came to Russia? Here is the statement again:

And there’s been no president ever as tough as I have been on Russia,

Do you feel that this particular statement is true in any context? Explain which of the presidents you'd compare him to to make the argument and which ones you would not.

That is correct. He said Russia. Not Russia/USSR or Moscow. Hence the question for clarification.

 

[Taylor]

Russia is recognized as the legal and political successor of the CCCP by everyone in the world. It's not hard to see the connection.

And yet, when people refer to Russia today, they don't mean the Soviet Union.

 

[Hatuey]

And yet, when people refer to Russia today, they don't mean the Soviet Union.

Unofficially, it is. This issue was addressed in the OP. This is not a question on legal names, it is question concerning our understanding of what Russia was, and there was no real tangible distinction between a Russian and someone from the USSR. We literally referred to them as Russians and Soviets depending on how we felt.

 

[Taylor]

and there was no real tangible distinction between a Russian and someone from the USSR.

LMAO - I take it you haven't met very many people from the former USSR.

 

[Hatuey]

And yet, when people refer to Russia today, they don't mean the Soviet Union.

The Russians feared Ike. They didn't fear me. - LBJ
Probably what pushed the Russians over the edge was SDI. They realized they couldn't beat us.
Take it from someone who fled the Iron Curtain: I know what happens when you give the Russians a green light. - Madeleine Albright
“But Sasha was from Russia, where the sunsets are longer, the dawns less sudden and sentences are often left unfinished from doubt as how to best end them.” - Virginia Woolf
Russia is a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma. – Winston Churchill

That is because the Soviet Union broke into states - however its direct successor and predecessor was and is Russia. That is to say Russia and the Soviet Union were regularly used interchangeably by people before. As such, and since this question deals with how people treated the terms back then as well, no distinction was made.

How do you not understand this?

 

[Fletch]

I suppose if you go back enough years you'll find a period in which Russia barely registered on our radar (such as, I'm assuming, pre-20th century). At that point you would probably find a President less tough on Russia.

No, you only need to go back to Obama.

 

[Atomic Kid]

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...ig-results-will-come-with-putin-idUSKBN1K814I



Given the president's latest statements on his actions towards, Russia, I thought it should be put to a vote. Ronald Reagan dealt directly with Moscow (Former capital of the USSR/Present capital of Russia) throughout his entire tenure. Is it true that Trump has been tougher than every president before him, Reagan included? The option are as follows:

- Yes, he was tougher than every other president; Reagan included.
- No, he was not tougher than every other president; Reagan was tougher.
- No, he was not tougher than every other presidents; many others were tougher (please provide examples).
- I do not know.

Please note that this threads is for DP members only. Secondly whatever your answer is, the topic of this thread is not a discussion on whether Trump lied, but whether his statements were accurate - as such the answers reflect choices which look at the accuracy of his statements. That is because a person can be inaccurate without necessarily lying.

Discuss.

Of course Reagan was tougher. Reagan referred to the Soviet Union/Russia as the "Evil Empire" Can you imagine Trump even saying such a thing? One can also credit Reagan with having won the Cold War. In Helsinki Trump lost that Cold War victory for us and I'm sure Reagan would be turning over in his grave now if he could have heard what Trump had said.

 

[Jredbaron96]

And yet, when people refer to Russia today, they don't mean the Soviet Union.

Of course not. They changed. The people are still there though, including those who served under the banner of the USSR, and now serve the Russian Federation.

 

[Hatuey]

LMAO - I take it you haven't met very many people from the former USSR.

I just quoted several people living during the period that referred to the USSR as Russia. Why are you still trying to claim that people saw a tangible distinction between the two when they kept using an unofficial name for the country in spite of its official name for itself?

 

[PLizzy]

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...ig-results-will-come-with-putin-idUSKBN1K814I



Given the president's latest statements on his actions towards, Russia, I thought it should be put to a vote. Ronald Reagan dealt directly with Moscow (Former capital of the USSR/Present capital of Russia) throughout his entire tenure. Is it true that Trump has been tougher than every president before him, Reagan included? The option are as follows:

- Yes, he was tougher than every other president; Reagan included.
- No, he was not tougher than every other president; Reagan was tougher.
- No, he was not tougher than every other presidents; many others were tougher (please provide examples).
- I do not know.

Please note that this threads is for DP members only. Secondly whatever your answer is, the topic of this thread is not a discussion on whether Trump lied, but whether his statements were accurate - as such the answers reflect choices which look at the accuracy of his statements. That is because a person can be inaccurate without necessarily lying.

Discuss.

I'm assuming the catalyist for this thread has come from the cons proclaiming that despite Trump's words, his administration is in fact "tough" on Russia, while Obama was weak.

Trump's administration has never proposed any sort of sanctioning of Russia at all. In fact, they've made clear they didn't want to enforce previous sanctions - much less new ones. The only reason Trump even signed the bill sanctioning Russia was due to the fact the new bill would have been veto proof, so he just had to go through the motions, and even then he made clear he didn't want to do it.

Trump, Kushner, Tillerson, Ross. They've made clear they wanted to repeal things like the Maginstky act, as well undermine NATO, and permit Putin to continue his hostile acts against his neighbors of former USSR territory.

Meanwhile, Obama (say what you want about him) was VERY hard on Russia after the invasion of the Ukraine and the downing Malaysia Airlines Flight 17.

Just more lies from the right.

 

[Hatuey]

The hill Taylor has chosen to die on is pretty amazing. People literally living during the time used the term Russia (the USSR's unofficial name) and he still declares that people saw tangible difference between the terms.

 

[Cardinal]

The Russian Empire was in fact a strong supporter of the US (if behind the scenes) for much of it's co-existence with America.

Well, there you go.

 

[Hatuey]

No, you only need to go back to Obama.

I take it you will not answer the question then. I hope you understand that the question did not concern Obama, it concerned Reagan as Republicans credit him with taking down the Iron Curtain. He seemed like fine metric to use. Was Reagan softer than Trump on Russia?

 

[Hatuey]

I'm assuming the catalyist for this thread has come from the cons proclaiming that despite Trump's words, his administration is in fact "tough" on Russia, while Obama was weak.

Trump's administration has never proposed any sort of sanctioning of Russia at all. In fact, they've made clear they didn't want to enforce previous sanctions - much less new ones. The only reason Trump even signed the bill sanctioning Russia was due to the fact the new bill would have been veto proof, so he just had to go through the motions, and even then he made clear he didn't want to do it.

Trump, Kushner, Tillerson, Ross. They've made clear they wanted to repeal things like the Maginstky act, as well undermine NATO, and permit Putin to continue his hostile acts against his neighbors of former USSR territory.

Meanwhile, Obama (say what you want about him) was VERY hard on Russia after the invasion of the Ukraine and the downing Malaysia Airlines Flight 17.

Just more lies from the right.

Actually, the catalyst for this thread were statements made shortly after a closed door meeting between Trump and Putin. He announced in front of cameras that no president had ever been as tough as himself on Russia. However, given that the last 45 presidents have all dealt with Russia in one of its many incarnations, the question had merit.

Used Reagan because he seemed like the most honest metric to compare him to.

 

[Phys251]

I suppose if you go back enough years you'll find a period in which Russia barely registered on our radar (such as, I'm assuming, pre-20th century). At that point you would probably find a President less tough on Russia.

Of course, that pre-dates (1) the USSR and (2) our imperialism in which Teddy Roosevelt started us.