IS Chivalry Dead? If so, Who Killed It?

[nota bene]

I'm well aware of that. However in today's society the middle class has the time, money, and education to maintain the type of Chivalrous society that was reserved for the nobility back in that age.

Yes I am. Mostly because the terms that would have been appropriate back then are not really appropriate anymore.

No, Tigger, no. You're idealizing a highly romanticized notion of a brief period that had nothing at all to do with ordinary people and existed as a social code of conduct for a very privileged few.

And I find difficult to believe that you knew the correct definition of "wench"; I think you used it in the modern sense that you understand from movies about ye merrye old dayes.

 

[Pinkie]

There are medical issues that make it pretty much unfeasible. Trust me, I wish it were otherwise.



Things like who I do business with, who I have to associate with every day, etc.... Just having to deal with the stupidity of the bureaucracy in the world these days. About the only thing that's kept me sane the last couple of months is the fact that I no longer have to deal with my two former roommates, having moved into my own place at the fist of November. My own little Fortress of Solitude. It's still a work in progress but it's a nice little hidey-hole.

I couldn't do roommates. I commend you for enduring what must be endured.

 

[blackjack50]

Just realize one thing.... you would have met resistance. I'll leave it at that for politeness sake.

Hopefully that sort of thing will not be necessary again in the future. If it is, maybe I'll just strand her ass out in the middle of nowhere with little chance of getting home easily; which seems to be the preferable option according to the individuals who have commented on this.

Do I strike you as the kind who would not be prepared for resistance when someone is openly striking a woman? Let me pose it to you how it would look from outside.

A gentlemen walking through some sort of parking lot notices a man openly beating a woman. Gentlemen happens to have a concealed weapons license, and decided that if he were in the shoes of someone being beat and had no means of resistance, that the proper course of action is to draw weapon and intervene. Police are called and suspect is detained and statements taken. Suspect states he was attempting to discipline woman for bad behavior? Gentlemen says all he saw was a grown man physically attacking a grown woman who was clearly in distress.

I don't think this particular suspect would be dumb enough to try anything different.

And it absolutely is the prefferable option. She can call a cab. It is NOT your job to discipline an individual. Was her behavior criminal? Even if it was, discipline is up to the justice system. If you were a "chivalrous" gentlemen you would have simply called a cab FOR her and waited to ensure that the cab arrived.

 

[blackjack50]

nah its not dead! Take last night for instance my wife has been feeling a little sick recently and didnt feel like sex so I settled for a hand job...

That was sexist, but quite funny.

 

[blackjack50]

I'm someone who understands that it's a Two-Way street. If she fails to act like a Lady, she will get treated like a wench and nothing more.

The actions of a real Lady would be not to put a Man in that position to begin with. If she cannot live up to the standards of decorum that she knows are expected of her, then don't accept the invitation to spend time with Him to begin with.

Was she informed that you were the type that would beat her before the date?

 

[Tigger]

No, Tigger, no. You're idealizing a highly romanticized notion of a brief period that had nothing at all to do with ordinary people and existed as a social code of conduct for a very privileged few.

Yes I am. It's something that could and should have been brought forth or reincarnated with the rise of the middle class. In fact, during the Renaisance it did come back to some degree among the class of businessmen and business owners throughout certain areas of Europe (France and Italy especially, and to a lesser degree in Spain).

And I find difficult to believe that you knew the correct definition of "wench"; I think you used it in the modern sense that you understand from movies about ye merrye old dayes.

Except that my knowledge of the period does not stem from the silver screen, but rather from the written word, and no from the fiction shelves either.

 

[Tigger]

I couldn't do roommates. I commend you for enduring what must be endured.

Thirteen and a half years. It was a good enough financial situation (which I failed to take full advantage of) that I let it continue much longer than it should have.

 

[Tigger]

Do I strike you as the kind who would not be prepared for resistance when someone is openly striking a woman? Let me pose it to you how it would look from outside

A gentlemen walking through some sort of parking lot notices a man openly beating a woman. Gentlemen happens to have a concealed weapons license, and decided that if he were in the shoes of someone being beat and had no means of resistance, that the proper course of action is to draw weapon and intervene. Police are called and suspect is detained and statements taken. Suspect states he was attempting to discipline woman for bad behavior? Gentlemen says all he saw was a grown man physically attacking a grown woman who was clearly in distress.

One thing to remember..... If you are going armed, there is a potential that the Suspect is as well. Just because he is spanking her and not pistol whipping her doesn't mean that he isn't prepared to defend himself in the same way that you are. Which would of course bring us to the point of whether either, neither, or both parties were willing to take that walk to the conclusion of the path it had started down, which would occur long before any LEO had arrived on the scene.

And it absolutely is the prefferable option. She can call a cab. It is NOT your job to discipline an individual. Was her behavior criminal? Even if it was, discipline is up to the justice system. If you were a "chivalrous" gentlemen you would have simply called a cab FOR her and waited to ensure that the cab arrived.

She would have been relying on the good graces of the other patrons and the restaurant to be paying for that cab. As I said, she had no money and no cell phone of her own. A Chivalrous gentleman gives Respect where it is due. When confronted with one who is not worthy of that Respect, he is not expected to show any of his own. If she acts like a Lady she should be treated as such. If she acts like a skullery maid or a chambermaid, she will be treated as such as well.

Was she informed that you were the type that would beat her before the date?

She had twice before endured corporal punishment from me, though neither of those instances had been in a public place. She had been warned several other times in the past that neither the time nor the place would stop me from administering whatever punishment I felt was necessary and best.

 

[Your Star]

I feel sorry for that poor girl. Her self-worth must be in the ****ter. No one deserves that sort of abuse.

 

[Tigger]

I feel sorry for that poor girl. Her self-worth must be in the ****ter. No one deserves that sort of abuse.

I figured that word would eventually show up. It might be useful for our society if we once again separated the words Discipline and Abuse in the dictionary instead of having combined them with a singular definition as we seem to have in the last half century or so. She got 10-15 swats with my hand for behavior that would have landed me probably 10-12 with the belt from my father when I was a child. She got off light.

 

[Jetboogieman]

I figured that word would eventually show up. It might be useful for our society if we once again separated the words Discipline and Abuse in the dictionary instead of having combined them with a singular definition as we seem to have in the last half century or so. She got 10-15 swats with my hand for behavior that would have landed me probably 10-12 with the belt from my father when I was a child. She got off light.

You are one sick puppy.

 

[Your Star]

I figured that word would eventually show up. It might be useful for our society if we once again separated the words Discipline and Abuse in the dictionary instead of having combined them with a singular definition as we seem to have in the last half century or so. She got 10-15 swats with my hand for behavior that would have landed me probably 10-12 with the belt from my father when I was a child. She got off light.

It's not your ****ing place to discipline a grown woman. How would you like for someone to come up to you and give you 15 swats on the ass for not acting the way they liked? Seriously dude, you need help.

 

[MaggieD]

It's not your ****ing place to discipline a grown woman. How would you like for someone to come up to you and give you 15 swats on the ass for not acting the way they liked? Seriously dude, you need help.

I'd say that there's some self-defense mode going on here...Tigger's behavior pretty much assures that he won't have any meaningful relationships in his life -- which, I'm thinking, may be exactly what he either wants or thinks he deserves. Combine that with the fact that any relationship he does sustain will be with a dysfunctional woman, and, well, there ya' have it, in my opinion.

*Removes armchair psychiatrist's hat and sits down*

 

[Tigger]

It's not your ****ing place to discipline a grown woman. How would you like for someone to come up to you and give you 15 swats on the ass for not acting the way they liked? Seriously dude, you need help.

As I have mentioned previously, she was well aware of who and what I was. I did not in any way force or connive her into accepting my dinner offer. She came freely, willingly, and with the foreknowledge that a certain level of behavior was expected of her. She was also well aware of the potential consequences of not behaving. She was warned twice during the evening that her behavior was out of line.

The only thing that's gonna help me is a round of .45 ACP up under my chin and I'm not quite to that point yet, Star.

 

[Tigger]

I'd say that there's some self-defense mode going on here...Tigger's behavior pretty much assures that he won't have any meaningful relationships in his life -- which, I'm thinking, may be exactly what he either wants or thinks he deserves. Combine that with the fact that any relationship he does sustain will be with a dysfunctional woman, and, well, there ya' have it, in my opinion.

You are correct that my way of life pretty much assures there is a very low potential for a meaningful, lasting relationship in my life. That's unfortunate, but it is what it is Maggie. What I'm not sure you people realze is that I'm not looking to change a woman into my vision of perfection. I'm not trying to take someone and turn them into something they're not. I'm looking for a woman who is already like that to begin with. Someone who sees the world the same way I do. Just haven't found her yet; and I'm guessing I probably won't.

 

[Your Star]

As I have mentioned previously, she was well aware of who and what I was. I did not in any way force or connive her into accepting my dinner offer. She came freely, willingly, and with the foreknowledge that a certain level of behavior was expected of her. She was also well aware of the potential consequences of not behaving. She was warned twice during the evening that her behavior was out of line.

The only thing that's gonna help me is a round of .45 ACP up under my chin and I'm not quite to that point yet, Star.

It still does not give you the right to physically assault someone, which is what you did. If I was a cop I would have arrested your ass right then and there. Which is what you deserved for that. If anyone was acting inappropriately it was you. You don't get to dictate how people act.

And seriously, your little act about not wanting to change, and how nothing except suicide will do is silly, and immature. You can change, you live in the mother****ing 21st century, you have access to the vastness of human knowledge at your fingertips. You could change for the better if you wanted too, you just don't want too. And society isn't to blame, because society is the best it's ever been, the blame lies at only one place, and that is you.

 

[Tigger]

It still does not give you the right to physically assault someone, which is what you did. If I was a cop I would have arrested your ass right then and there. Which is what you deserved for that. If anyone was acting inappropriately it was you. You don't get to dictate how people act.

If you want to play in my world, you play by my rules. I have no problem going over into my own little corner of the playground and entertaining myself if nobody else wants to play; but if you do want to play in my game, it's by my rules. Not a very difficult concept to understand, is it Star?

And seriously, your little act about not wanting to change, and how nothing except suicide will do is silly, and immature. You can change, you live in the mother****ing 21st century, you have access to the vastness of human knowledge at your fingertips. You could change for the better if you wanted too, you just don't want too. And society isn't to blame, because society is the best it's ever been, the blame lies at only one place, and that is you.

Can, Will, and Should are three very different things, Star. COULD I change.... POSSIBLY (I have my doubts at this point). WILL I change.... NOPE. SHOULD I change.... I don't believe so (though I know others disagree). I live in the 21st Century by a twist of fate that I have rued from the day I realized what it meant, Star. I'm an Anachronism and probably always will be.

In the three different times I've considered whether or not I should change, I have never been shown a truly worthwhile reason to do so. I have not had anyone who could come up with even a single GUARANTEED positive out of putting the time, energy, money, etc... into doing so. Since I view life as an investment, someone would have to be able to come up with a pretty damn significant, GUARANTEED return on that investment for me to even consider looking at it again.

 

[MaggieD]

You are correct that my way of life pretty much assures there is a very low potential for a meaningful, lasting relationship in my life. That's unfortunate, but it is what it is Maggie. What I'm not sure you people realze is that I'm not looking to change a woman into my vision of perfection. I'm not trying to take someone and turn them into something they're not. I'm looking for a woman who is already like that to begin with. Someone who sees the world the same way I do. Just haven't found her yet; and I'm guessing I probably won't.

A hopeless search that guarantees you failure -- which must be, not only acceptable to you, but your endgame. To be alone. Nice excuse you've given yourself, Tigger.

 

[Your Star]

If you want to play in my world, you play by my rules. I have no problem going over into my own little corner of the playground and entertaining myself if nobody else wants to play; but if you do want to play in my game, it's by my rules. Not a very difficult concept to understand, is it Star?

No, you don't get to do that, plain and simple. You don't get to make rules, and hand out punishments that are against the law. You've just been lucky you haven't been caught.

Can, Will, and Should are three very different things, Star. COULD I change.... POSSIBLY (I have my doubts at this point). WILL I change.... NOPE. SHOULD I change.... I don't believe so (though I know others disagree). I live in the 21st Century by a twist of fate that I have rued from the day I realized what it meant, Star. I'm an Anachronism and probably always will be.
In the three different times I've considered whether or not I should change, I have never been shown a truly worthwhile reason to do so. I have not had anyone who could come up with even a single GUARANTEED positive out of putting the time, energy, money, etc... into doing so. Since I view life as an investment, someone would have to be able to come up with a pretty damn significant, GUARANTEED return on that investment for me to even consider looking at it again.

You know what return of investment you will receive, a happy ****ing life, with human contact and affection. Being able to connect with people on an emotional level, and more than some cold economical relationship. That's the whole point of life, being happy, making human connections, and experiencing the beauty in this world. This egotistical viewpoint you have is just sad, not rooted in reality, nor what is best for society as a whole.

 

[Tigger]

No, you don't get to do that, plain and simple. You don't get to make rules, and hand out punishments that are against the law. You've just been lucky you haven't been caught.

Thankfully my world rarely bleeds over into most people's world. In this case it did, but most of the time it does not. Im my world, I do get to make the rules. If you don't like that, then don't enter my world. That's not a very difficult thing to do, staying out of my world. In fact it's pretty easy to do.

You know what return of investment you will receive, a happy ****ing life, with human contact and affection. Being able to connect with people on an emotional level, and more than some cold economical relationship. That's the whole point of life, being happy, making human connections, and experiencing the beauty in this world. This egotistical viewpoint you have is just sad, not rooted in reality, nor what is best for society as a whole.

You know that happiness, human contact, affection, and positive emotions are not things that I really see all that much need for. I've lived without them for this long, and I've probably got considerably less than half of my lifetime remaining, so what would be the point. As for what's best for society as a whole.... When or where have I ever shown an interest in that? I don't get a chance to see a lot of beauty in this world, Star. I'm definitely not part of the beauty of this world, and never have been.

 

[Your Star]

Thankfully my world rarely bleeds over into most people's world. In this case it did, but most of the time it does not. Im my world, I do get to make the rules. If you don't like that, then don't enter my world. That's not a very difficult thing to do, staying out of my world. In fact it's pretty easy to do.

You don't get to make rules that are against the law, plain and simple. Your opinions are not more important than the rule of law.

You know that happiness, human contact, affection, and positive emotions are not things that I really see all that much need for. I've lived without them for this long, and I've probably got considerably less than half of my lifetime remaining, so what would be the point. As for what's best for society as a whole.... When or where have I ever shown an interest in that? I don't get a chance to see a lot of beauty in this world, Star. I'm definitely not part of the beauty of this world, and never have been.

What's the point? That's the whole point. So what if you lived without them for this long, that does not devalue them now. And whether you want to admit it or not, you need those things, we all need those things. Those things are at the very essence of what makes us human, and there is beauty everywhere, you just have to look for it.

 

[Tigger]

A hopeless search that guarantees you failure -- which must be, not only acceptable to you, but your endgame. To be alone. Nice excuse you've given yourself, Tigger.

Failure is nothing to complain about when it occurs to maintain a Principle, Maggie. What I want is immaterial to what happens. So long as I maintain the Principled Life, I can live with whatever happens.

 

[Goshin]

And another thread becomes "all about Tiggers".

 

[MaggieD]

And another thread becomes "all about Tiggers".

:rofl At least this one he started.

 

[00timh]

How bout we all ignore Tiggers BS and get back to the topic at hand. (I don't care that he is the thread starter) It doesn't matter how far back you go... go back a hundred years and the elderly were talking about the good ol days and yadda yadda yadda. Let's discuss modern day chivalry. It still exsists, and a large majority of women enjoy it. Very few find modern day chivalry to be a turn off. Sadly though, there are a lot of guys on here posting about how they don't like it. Bad for them, good for us who still revel in traditional gender roles. Yes, the game has changed, but those of us who still play it have more fun.