• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Is Charlie Kirk a martyr?

Fyi -- in my view anyways -- being a martyr is not necessarily a good thing.

Just like people don't like it when I often say Trump is highly charismatic. Neither means I approve or think it is a good thing, just that both situations could be realistic.
 
btthegreat said:
I think if that is your definition of martyr, it is too broad for me. If he knew he was likely to die if he continued, and continued the same behavior facing that very threat, that would make him a martyr. For example if he had received word that someone was targeting him for assassination in the next few days or weeks, and decided to go out in public anyway...
Click to expand...

He had a security team and was wearing a bulletproof vest and had received death threats. So he chose to take the risks seriously and "decided to go out in public anyway."

That's what it is...and he noted the death threats and said they wouldnt stop him...kind of a self-declaration.
 
Airyaman said:
I say...yes.

Why? Because he was killed for free speech.

You may not like what Kirk had to say. You may not have liked the influence he had over many people. I chose not to listen to much of what he ever said because I did not want to hear his garbage.

But he did it using the power of free speech.

And because of his speech, someone killed him.

I don't care if Tyler Robinson is left, right, or indifferent and just didn't like what Kirk had to say, he simply did not have the right to take the life of someone expressing their opinions.

So while you may hate Charlie Kirk's messages, he still had the right to express them and not face anything more than scorn and derision.

Violence as a response to speech is never the way.

Click to expand...

No..but people are gonna try to make him into one
 
The key takeaway of the past 72 hours is how quickly the MAGA Right wanted to start a civil war regardless of reason, evidence, or facts.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
The key takeaway of the past 72 hours is how quickly the MAGA Right wanted to start a civil war regardless of reason, evidence, or facts.
Click to expand...
They've been itching for one since Trump took office in 2016. Right wing extremist violence has sky rocketed since then.
 
Josie said:
We still don't know the motivation behind the killing. I'm assuming he was killed for his beliefs so that would make the answer a yes. But we don't know for sure yet.
Click to expand...
Being killed for having beliefs doesn’t establish martyrdom.

A willingness of self sacrifice is central to martyrdom.

Kirk did not willingly sacrifice his safety/life in his pursuit of spreading lies and hate.
 
Airyaman said:
They've been itching for one since Trump took office in 2016. Right wing extremist violence has sky rocketed since then.
Click to expand...

Remember when Republicans took pleasure in accusing everyone else of letting their emotions overrule their logic, and how Republicans claimed legit intellectual superiority and powers of logic?
It's always been pure projection.
This has always been their reality, no matter how hard they try to cover it up.
They believe that they are in their heyday now.

The reality is, most rank and file MAGA's have always lived off the generosity of liberal state contributions and if ever there was a time for organized cooperative action to shut off the revenue streams that they depend on, that time is right now. No point in fretting about what that would trigger because the fact is, their next move is already long ago planned and they're just itching for an excuse to make that move, so it doesn't matter. The only thing matters is forcing them to pay their own way, because for the last decade or more, blue states have essentially been paying red states to undermine democracy, foment civil war and domestic terrorism, and further to that point, if we're searching for an event that signaled the start of MAGA justifying the use of political violence, January 6, 2021 was that event.
And now they are planning to use the power of the Federal Government to physically attack people who do not bow and agree with their views.

No more financing this domestic terrorism. It's their war, they're not going to stop until they find their Reichstag Fire moment, so let them pay for the war themselves.
 
tshade said:
Wrong-----------But make no mistake: Kirk was a casualty of the violence he incited. He is not a hero or a martyr.......
Click to expand...
You already claimed his murder was justified.
 
tshade said:
not in the context you are spewing out
Click to expand...
Bullshit.

You may lack the cognitive ability to understand the words you used, but you referred to it as a justifiable homicide.
 
Airyaman said:
If you are killed for your beliefs, then some would consider that a martyr.
Click to expand...
They may say it, but that's not the definition of martyr.

I don't see where any of the below definitions qualify.

...


noun​

  1. a person who willingly suffers death rather than renounce their religion.
  2. a person who is put to death or endures great suffering on behalf of any belief, principle, or cause.

    Her death has made her a martyr to the cause of social justice.
  3. a person who undergoes severe or constant suffering.

    The patient was a martyr to severe headaches.
  4. a person who seeks sympathy or attention by feigning or exaggerating pain, deprivation, etc
 
Gardener said:
Bullshit.

You may lack the cognitive ability to understand the words you used, but you referred to it as a justifiable homicide.
Click to expand...
Did Kirk lack such ability?? What happened to him was a result of words. Or do you disagree??

There is context for the words we use------you will understand that someday, I hope.........and no, I never said what you state......

However, murder can be justified under certain ethical frameworks------do you agree?
 
tshade said:
Did Kirk lack such ability?? What happened to him was a result of words. Or do you disagree??

There is context for the words we use------you will understand that someday, I hope.........

Murder can be justified under certain ethical frameworks------do you agree?
Click to expand...
Kirk had an IQ 50 points higher than yours, so I realize he knew that murderous people like you would justify his death.
 
Gardener said:
Kirk had an IQ 50 points higher than yours, so I realize he knew that murderous people like you would justify his death.
Click to expand...
Apparently someone did. Kirk was a casualty of the violence he incited............

However---can we have a debate? Can you answer post #117??? Or is that a bit too complex....?
 
tshade said:
Apparently someone did. Kirk was a casualty of the violence he incited............

However---can we have a debate? Can you answer post #117??? Or is that a bit too complex....?
Click to expand...
You really do not need to keep doubling down on your support for his murder,

I got your murderous message loud and clear.
 
Chalie kirk was disgusting, hateful, dishonest excuse for a human being.

The fact that he called himself christiian is the hieght of dishonesty and irony.


But even disgusting, hateful, dishonest excuses for a human beings shouldnt be murdered.
 
NolanVoyd said:
Chalie kirk was disgusting, hateful, dishonest excuse for a human being.

The fact that he called himself christiian is the hieght of dishonesty and irony.


But even disgusting, hateful, dishonest excuses for a human beings shouldnt be murdered.
Click to expand...
It is not legal----I agree............can murder ever be ethical???
 
tshade said:
poor attempt at a dodge on your part
Click to expand...
No dodge.

I am simply pointing out your unequivocal support for the murder of those with whom you disagree.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom