Is Atheism a religion? If not, what is?

[Thorgasm]

Re the 'sheep' thing, if the Atheists aren't following a specific doctrine why does the 'sheep' analogy come up so often as well as the sins of Christianity over the millenia, the 'superstition' accusation, and maybe another 25 to 50 words and phrases that are as predictable on these threads as are the fact that the Atheists are drawn to them in numbers close to or exceeding the believers?

And when the Atheists show up on a religion thread arguing their beliefs as fervently as do the Christians et al argue theirs, then yeah, I'm going to take note of and comment on that. And point out how it mimics religion in every way. Could that be because it IS a religion?

And type 'atheists' and 'atheism' into your browser or Google it and see the hundreds of sites devoted to the promotion of, discussion of, and defense of Atheism and then tell me that you don't 'market it'. No religion probably 'markets' their beliefs in the same manner as do Christians because part of the Christian belief is Jesus's commandment to 'go into all the world and make disciples.' But the Atheists are every bit on a par with everybody else as far as displaying and promoting their belief system.

Why do I have a picture of Jesus with sheep from my childhood.? The christians and jews were pastoral people. It was a reasonable metaphor. I think it is appropriate. Would you rather I say lemmings?

Having information on the information superhighway is not marketing. Spamming is. Having ads on Yahoo is different. Displaying on the internet is not "promoting" per se. If the encyclopedia has atheism in it is it "promoting" atheism? What is wrong with them displaying their thoughts? Or is this a "people can believe and do what they want, I just want them to do it out of the public eye." thing?

 

[Thorgasm]

This wasn't addressed to me but may I answer?

Some years ago I went through my own spiritual journey and spent a good 10+ years intensely studying various religions of the world, including all the various denominations and sects within each, not from a clinical aspect but to understand why they were attractive to people. I was actively looking for any excuse to throw off my own Christian heritage and find something superior even if that something was in fact Atheism.

I learned that there are no religions of the world that have absolutely no merit and all have pieces of the truth. And I came to believe that none have all the truth. But after looking at EVERYTHING for those 10+ years, I finally arrived at points of truths I could neither explain away nor deny.

I am still a Christian.

And I am a person who demands that anything I believe or promote be 100% rational and verifiable.

So there you are. Another person will have a different story to tell. But while I cannot prove to anybody what I have experienced and know without them experiencing the same thing, neither does anybody have the experience or knowledge to prove that my experience and knowledge is invalid.

I recommend the exercise.

The similarities in religion don't mean that there is a god. The similarities between pagans and christians is quite telling. There are common philosphies. Religion can be a good thing for many people. I find it to be a placebo effect though. I also fail to see the rationale in the leaps of faith.

 

[FinnMacCool]

Atheism is an individiual discovery. It's not something brought down by parents. Or at least it shouldn't. For years and years I went to Catholic school and I went to church every Sunday. Finally many years later, once I've come to the conclusion that there is no God, I go and explain this to my father and I find out that he too is an atheist. Yes you heard that right. My father took me to Sunday church for years and now he tells me he is actually an atheist.

It is hard to have patience with people who say things like 'oh they get atheism from liberals' or 'that damn teacher must be teaching them that.' Maybe the problem isn't the 'liberal professors but the fact that people have a problem with their children thinking for myself. I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm glad I was allowed to come to my own conclusions.

 

[AlbqOwl]

Atheism is an individiual discovery. It's not something brought down by parents. Or at least it shouldn't. For years and years I went to Catholic school and I went to church every Sunday. Finally many years later, once I've come to the conclusion that there is no God, I go and explain this to my father and I find out that he too is an atheist. Yes you heard that right. My father took me to Sunday church for years and now he tells me he is actually an atheist.

It is hard to have patience with people who say things like 'oh they get atheism from liberals' or 'that damn teacher must be teaching them that.' Maybe the problem isn't the 'liberal professors but the fact that people have a problem with their children thinking for myself. I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm glad I was allowed to come to my own conclusions.

You have one member up there who was not raised as a Christian nor taught to be a Christian but is in fact now a Christian. You have others who were raised into Christian families and who have chucked it all. And you have some like me who tried to chuck it and found that it had more truth than any other belief system. And you have still others who are advocates of Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, or any other religion you wish to name and find them all meaningful.

This thread however, is not to distinguish between why people choose one religion over another, but the fact that through reading, soul searching, teaching, role models, and rational thought processes, different people choose different belief systems.

I believe Atheism to be one of the multitude of belief systems available to choose from and I believe the advocates of Atheism practice and promote their religion as much as most of the others do. Sometimes it is national leaders who proclaim Atheism to be the only legal belief system and sometimes it is one person who comes to that realization himself/herself.

But when you analyze what makes a belief system a religion, Atheism is right in there with everything else.

 

[Deegan]

Like I said when I suggested this thread, if atheism is a religion, what is not a religion, this is in stark contrast to the title of this thread? Is the "I don't believe in the boogieman" a religion, or the "I don't believe in aliens" a religion, or the "I do believe" for either, I think not. It's just silly to try and put a label on something that in no way fits the established definition. We all know what the definitions of religion are, just as we know what the definition of marriage is, why try and lump them all together, what is the agenda here?

 

[FinnMacCool]

Alb,

I think that post was more in response to the person who said something like 'atheists get atheism from liberal professors'

If your going to think in terms of religion along the lines of Christianity, Buddhism, and Hinduism, atheism isn't in that category. Everyone is born an atheist, pretty much. They may change their mind later but if they aren't brought up with God then for them, there is none, or as far as they know. It's like being born with out the knowledge of Zebras or something. I don't know that there is a Zebra because no one told me that there is one and I havent' seen any myself. So perhaps I'm an AZebraist? Would that make AZebraism a religion?

 

[AlbqOwl]

Like I said when I suggested this thread, if atheism is a religion, what is not a religion, this is in stark contrast to the title of this thread? Is the "I don't believe in the boogieman" a religion, or the "I don't believe in aliens" a religion, or the "I do believe" for either, I think not. It's just silly to try and put a label on something that in no way fits the established definition. We all know what the definitions of religion are, just as we know what the definition of marriage is, why try and lump them all together, what is the agenda here?

So far as I know the 'boogieman' does not concern itself over a Deity nor do 'aliens'.

What makes Atheism a religion is promotion of a belief regarding a deity or deities. It is identifable as a religious entity by virtue of the many Atheist groups that are organized specifically for the purpose of expressing and defending their beliefs and some include agendas intended to eradicate all other religious references from the entire public sector.

I don't see students of boogiemen or aliens flocking in droves to religious threads or expressing their beliefs about a God or gods or whatever or expressing contempt for the beliefs of others. The passioned arguments of Atheism appears to be in part to justify their own beliefs, as do those of other religions, and in part to discredit other religions, as do some other religions, or to win converts as do some other religions.

It goes back to the old saying: if it looks like a duck....quacks like a duck....etc.

 

[Thorgasm]

It goes back to the old saying: if it looks like a duck....quacks like a duck....etc.

If it looks like an owl.....hoots like an owl....etc.

 

[tryreading]

I believe Atheism to be one of the multitude of belief systems available to choose from and I believe the advocates of Atheism practice and promote their religion as much as most of the others do. Sometimes it is national leaders who proclaim Atheism to be the only legal belief system and sometimes it is one person who comes to that realization himself/herself.

But when you analyze what makes a belief system a religion, Atheism is right in there with everything else.

You keep repeatedly saying this, that atheism is a religion. But like I said before, and got no response, if it is a religion it is not being endorsed by our government like all of the monotheistic religions. Ignoring it is not equal treatment, is it? How do you propose equal treatment?

I say the atheists need a disclaimer motto as equally endorsed as the new monotheistic national motto. It might read 'In God We Do Not Believe.' And again, if it is a religion, and cannot be endorsed in this country, then monotheism has been established in this country, Thomas Jefferson is spinning in his grave, and its time for Newdow to launch some new lawsuits.

 

[AlbqOwl]

You keep repeatedly saying this, that atheism is a religion. But like I said before, and got no response, if it is a religion it is not being endorsed by our government like all of the monotheistic religions. Ignoring it is not equal treatment, is it? How do you propose equal treatment?

I say the atheists need a disclaimer motto as equally endorsed as the new monotheistic national motto. It might read 'In God We Do Not Believe.' And again, if it is a religion, and cannot be endorsed in this country, then monotheism has been established in this country, Thomas Jefferson is spinning in his grave, and its time for Newdow to launch some new lawsuits.

Well keep working on it. As soon as the Atheists are in a majority and think that is an appropriate motto, you get exactly what you want. The motto itself is not at all a violation of the Constitution since there is no requirement or consequence imposed on anybody by its presence. And since the God of the Pledge and the God of the coin are generic entities representative of religious heritage rather than an imposition of religion, you are represented as is everybody else who has a religious faith.

So glad you've finally acknowledged that you have one. That's progress. :smile:

 

[tryreading]

Well keep working on it. As soon as the Atheists are in a majority and think that is an appropriate motto, you get exactly what you want. The motto itself is not at all a violation of the Constitution since there is no requirement or consequence imposed on anybody by its presence. And since the God of the Pledge and the God of the coin are generic entities representative of religious heritage rather than an imposition of religion, you are represented as is everybody else who has a religious faith.

So glad you've finally acknowledged that you have one. That's progress. :smile:

Majority has no say if atheists are being discriminated against, if atheism is a religion, like you keep saying. One person can correct that crime, as Newdow did in the Pledge case.

But again, you don't answer the question. A generic God can't, nor can any other God represent atheism. Only the absence of the God can do that.

You have labeled me personally, but I am not an atheist.

 

[AlbqOwl]

Majority has no say if atheists are being discriminated against, if atheism is a religion, like you keep saying. One person can correct that crime, as Newdow did in the Pledge case.

But again, you don't answer the question. A generic God can't, nor can any other God represent atheism. Only the absence of the God can do that.

You have labeled me personally, but I am not an atheist.

Most stuff in government does not reference God in any way, so I think the Atheists are adequately represented. And the presence of Atheists in no way negates the fact that religion is part of our historical and cultural heritage and thus it is quite appropriate that the government acknowledge that. It does not establish religion for the government to do so.

I didn't say you were an Atheist. I just said you acknowledged a religious faith. That could be anything including Atheism which by the way is the topic here and not the Pledge or the motto on the currency.

 

[tryreading]

Most stuff in government does not reference God in any way, so I think the Atheists are adequately represented.

They should be directly represented, shouldn't they? Like monotheism. It is specifically represented and assumed that 'we' all trust in it, when we all don't.

Throw them a bone. The Supreme Court comes to order when convening when the crier ends his fanfare with a reference to God. Have him add '...God, or the lack thereof...'

If atheism is a religion, that will be a start.

 

[Donkey1499]

They should be directly represented, shouldn't they? Like monotheism. It is specifically represented and assumed that 'we' all trust in it, when we all don't.

Throw them a bone. The Supreme Court comes to order when convening when the crier ends his fanfare with a reference to God. Have him add '...God, or the lack thereof...'

If atheism is a religion, that will be a start.

Most symbols in the gov't are Egyptian, yet I don't approve of Ancient Egyptian mythology or their psychological problems (megalomaniacs). But I tolerate those symbols.

 

[AlbqOwl]

Alb,

I think that post was more in response to the person who said something like 'atheists get atheism from liberal professors'

If your going to think in terms of religion along the lines of Christianity, Buddhism, and Hinduism, atheism isn't in that category. Everyone is born an atheist, pretty much. They may change their mind later but if they aren't brought up with God then for them, there is none, or as far as they know. It's like being born with out the knowledge of Zebras or something. I don't know that there is a Zebra because no one told me that there is one and I havent' seen any myself. So perhaps I'm an AZebraist? Would that make AZebraism a religion?

AZebraists unite! You do raise an interesting new point. Are we all born atheists? I'm not sure I can agree with that because of my own experience. If God is real, and I believe He/She/It is, then God can make himself known. And this could be why you don't find any primitive peoples anywhere, no matter how remote or how isolated, who do not believe in some sort of deity. It could also add strength to the argument that Atheism is as learned a religion as any other.

I know the agnostics and Atheists wandering in here will probably protest this, but I think one reason that so many Atheists find discussions like this fascinating and are drawn to them is because somewhere deep down they are drawn to a Deity they do not wish to acknowledge. I don't mean to imply they are being dishonest or are fully aware, but that would be one explanation for the large number of Atheists posting on religious threads.

Again, it has been my observation that the truly nonreligious is completely bored and uninterested in a topic like this and doesn't care what anybody believes as it reflects on his/her beliefs not in the least.

 

[Donkey1499]

AZebraists unite! You do raise an interesting new point. Are we all born atheists? I'm not sure I can agree with that because of my own experience. If God is real, and I believe He/She/It is, then God can make himself known. And this could be why you don't find any primitive peoples anywhere, no matter how remote or how isolated, who do not believe in some sort of deity. It could also add strength to the argument that Atheism is as learned a religion as any other.

I know the agnostics and Atheists wandering in here will probably protest this, but I think one reason that so many Atheists find discussions like this fascinating and are drawn to them is because somewhere deep down they are drawn to a Deity they do not wish to acknowledge. I don't mean to imply they are being dishonest or are fully aware, but that would be one explanation for the large number of Atheists posting on religious threads.

Again, it has been my observation that the truly nonreligious is completely bored and uninterested in a topic like this and doesn't care what anybody believes as it reflects on his/her beliefs not in the least.

I once read in Charisma (A Christian Magazine) that there was an atheist who wanted to see an evangelical preacher preach, but he didn't want to hear what was being preached. So he plugged his ears with his fingers. Sometime thru the middle of the preaching a fly landed on the man's nose. He wiggled his nose to make the fly go away. He even shook his head back and forth (leaving his fingers in his ears). But the fly just wouldn't go away. So finally the man removed his fingers from his ears to swat the fly away, and when he did he heard the preacher say "Lord, if they have ears, then let them listen to what you've got to say." He then decided to listen to the rest of the preaching.

That man is now a christian. That moment with the fly changed his life forever. And I think that a lesson could be learned from this.

 

[tryreading]

Most symbols in the gov't are Egyptian, yet I don't approve of Ancient Egyptian mythology or their psychological problems (megalomaniacs). But I tolerate those symbols.

On early American currency there are representations of many mythological figures. I don't care about those, I can tolerate them, because nobody is trying to insert them everywhere. Also, because they are known to be myth, they are unimportant, just icons of strength, justice, etc.

But you'll find very few references on money to any God that was taken seriously at the time.

Benjamin Franklin designed an early coin, which had a reference to the Continental Congress on it, and 'We Are One,' and 'Mind Your Business' written on either side. Most money printed at the time had no mention of God on it. Should be like that now.

 

[Donkey1499]

On early American currency there are representations of many mythological figures. I don't care about those, I can tolerate them, because nobody is trying to insert them everywhere. Also, because they are known to be myth, they are unimportant, just icons of strength, justice, etc.

But you'll find very few references on money to any God that was taken seriously at the time.

Benjamin Franklin designed an early coin, which had a reference to the Continental Congress on it, and 'We Are One,' and 'Mind Your Business' written on either side. Most money printed at the time had no mention of God on it. Should be like that now.

Alright then, smarty pants. What should be written on the coins then? "Kiss My Ass Bin Laden"? I think it's fine just the way it is. What's so damn offensive about it? If you don't like it, then use a credit card!

 

[tryreading]

I once read in Charisma (A Christian Magazine) that there was an atheist who wanted to see an evangelical preacher preach, but he didn't want to hear what was being preached. So he plugged his ears with his fingers. Sometime thru the middle of the preaching a fly landed on the man's nose. He wiggled his nose to make the fly go away. He even shook his head back and forth (leaving his fingers in his ears). But the fly just wouldn't go away. So finally the man removed his fingers from his ears to swat the fly away, and when he did he heard the preacher say "Lord, if they have ears, then let them listen to what you've got to say." He then decided to listen to the rest of the preaching.

That man is now a christian. That moment with the fly changed his life forever. And I think that a lesson could be learned from this.

This story should be placed in a file labeled 'Silly and Boring Stories.'

 

[Donkey1499]

This story should be placed in a file labeled 'Silly and Boring.'

Oh, yeah! Well you should be placed in a bin labeled....... "tryreading at a 12th grade level".

It took me a whole 5 minutes to think of that.

 

[tryreading]

Oh, yeah! Well you should be placed in a bin labeled....... "tryreading at a 12th grade level".

It took me a whole 5 minutes to think of that.

About as long as it took me to create my witty line. Your retort would have been funnier, though, if you had said 'at a third grade level.'

 

[Donkey1499]

About as long as it took me to create my witty line. Your retort would have been funnier, though, if you had said 'at a third grade level.'

....................... what's wrong with third graders? Just because some of them are 16 doesn't give you a right to make fun of them...........

 

[tryreading]

....................... what's wrong with third graders? Just because some of them are 16 doesn't give you a right to make fun of them...........

Nothing wrong with third graders - I hope to reach their level some day.

 

[Donkey1499]

Nothing wrong with third graders - I hope to reach their level some day.

Want some playdough?

 

[tryreading]

Want some playdough?

I would really appreciate some real dough.