Is antisemitism "punching up"?

[AtlantaAdonis]

Not all forms of racial bias are equally bad and important. We don't treat black hatred of white people as nearly a serious problem as racism against black people because one is amplified by systemic bigotry and bias.

Why don't we do the same with antisemitism? People of Jewish ancestry have all the benefits that come with ostensible whiteness plus they have even more disproportionate influence over politics, finance, and media than white people at large. Too often "antisemitism" is used the muddy that waters on the greater discussion of social justice at large (especially with respect to Israelie-Palestine issues). It's past time social justice and equity advocates recognize Ashkenazi Jewishness as a particularly toxic branch of institutional whiteness.

 

[Phys251]

Not all forms of racial bias are equally bad and important. We don't treat black hatred of white people as nearly a serious problem as racism against black people because one is amplified by systemic bigotry and bias.

Why don't we do the same with antisemitism? People of Jewish ancestry have all the benefits that come with ostensible whiteness plus they have even more disproportionate influence over politics, finance, and media than white people at large. Too often "antisemitism" is used the muddy that waters on the greater discussion of social justice at large (especially with respect to Israelie-Palestine issues). It's past time social justice and equity advocates recognize Ashkenazi Jewishness as a particularly toxic branch of institutional whiteness.

It's more complicated than you're making it out to be.

If we're talking specifically about criticizing racism against Jewish people, then yes, that's punching up.

Too often, however, people deliberately conflate anti-antisemitism with criticizing the policies of the government of Israel. Two separate things.

 

[Felis Leo]

It's more complicated than you're making it out to be.

If we're talking specifically about criticizing racism against Jewish people, then yes, that's punching up.

Too often, however, people deliberately conflate anti-antisemitism with criticizing the policies of the government of Israel. Two separate things.

Well AtlantaAdonis is specifically asking whether antisemitism itself is a form of punching up. Since antisemitism is the conspiracy theory that Jews, as a race, seek to control all worldly affairs for the sole benefit of Jews it clearly is not.

People who are dyed-in-the-wool "anti-Semites are not "punching up."

 

[Phys251]

Well AtlantaAdonis is specifically asking whether antisemitism itself is a form of punching up. Since antisemitism is the conspiracy theory that Jews, as a race, seek to control all worldly affairs for the sole benefit of Jews it clearly is not.

As true as that may be, my point about anti-antisemitism getting constantly conflated with criticism of Israel's government's policies remains.

I stand firmly against anti-semitism, but people must be able to criticize a government's actions.

 

[TheParser]

No, there is not more anti-Semitism.

It just seems that way because certain folks are just out of control, thanks to what they were allowed to get away with last year.

 

[calamity]

Not all forms of racial bias are equally bad and important. We don't treat black hatred of white people as nearly a serious problem as racism against black people because one is amplified by systemic bigotry and bias.

Why don't we do the same with antisemitism? People of Jewish ancestry have all the benefits that come with ostensible whiteness plus they have even more disproportionate influence over politics, finance, and media than white people at large. Too often "antisemitism" is used the muddy that waters on the greater discussion of social justice at large (especially with respect to Israelie-Palestine issues). It's past time social justice and equity advocates recognize Ashkenazi Jewishness as a particularly toxic branch of institutional whiteness.

WTF?

 

[calamity]

As true as that may be, my point about anti-antisemitism getting constantly conflated with criticism of Israel's government's policies remains.

I stand firmly against anti-semitism, but people must be able to criticize a government's actions.

Anti-Israeli policy is definitely not anti-Semitism.

 

[swing_voter]

At one time, Yale and Harvard wouldn't admit Jews.

The president of Harvard came up with the SAT test so that students would be admitted on merit. This allowed Jews in.

We've come a long way.


.

 

[Felis Leo]

Anti-Israeli policy is definitely not anti-Semitism.

It depends on the policy and who is pursuing it.

 

[bomberfox]

No antisemitism isnt punching up. Its a scapegoat for the problems of capitalism and never solves any problems.

 

[bomberfox]

Antisemitism can never be punching up.

 

[oneworld2]

Not all forms of racial bias are equally bad and important. We don't treat black hatred of white people as nearly a serious problem as racism against black people because one is amplified by systemic bigotry and bias.

Why don't we do the same with antisemitism? People of Jewish ancestry have all the benefits that come with ostensible whiteness plus they have even more disproportionate influence over politics, finance, and media than white people at large. Too often "antisemitism" is used the muddy that waters on the greater discussion of social justice at large (especially with respect to Israelie-Palestine issues). It's past time social justice and equity advocates recognize Ashkenazi Jewishness as a particularly toxic branch of institutional whiteness.

Nah, genuine antisemitism is, imo, just bog standard racism like any other. It is a dislike/hostility towards Jewish people/Jewishness, some of which are not even " white".

I agree with AA that the term has been, sadly, used as a gagg to try to stifle valid criticisms of some of the policies prosecuted by the state of Israel. The misuse of the term by defenders of such policies hasimpacted badly on the term imo and that is sad in and of itself

 

[Felis Leo]

As true as that may be, my point about anti-antisemitism getting constantly conflated with criticism of Israel's government's policies remains.

I stand firmly against anti-semitism, but people must be able to criticize a government's actions.

Well, context matters and it depends who is doing the criticism and why. While I may often disagree with it, much criticism of Israel is perfectly within the bounds of reason and based on things that any other government pursuing similar policies could reasonably be criticized for. But a lot of vitriol towards Israel is borne out of Jew-hatred. Some people who hate Jews and believe in antisemitism often use criticism of Israel, how it came into existence, and its policies as a cover for their hatred of Jews. And they often have their favorite "exception" Jews who they always like to cite to prove that they are not Jew haters like the insane ultra-Orthodox Neturei Karta sect (a sect which every Jew-hater loves to cite because they not only hate the existence of Israel but they believe that the Jews deserved to suffer the Holocaust). Certainly some members here who claim to value veracity at any price love to cite them in an effort to pretend that they are not Jew haters. Which is like a white supremacist citing Uncle Ruckus to dispel charges of racism.

 

[oneworld2]

Since antisemitism is the conspiracy theory that Jews, as a race, seek to control all worldly affairs for the sole benefit of Jews it clearly is not.

I disagree with this statement FL. Antisemitism is the dislike of/hostility towards Jewish people and/or anything Jewish, associated with Jewishness. It is the dislike of the group itself and the CTs themselves are just poor excuses being used to try to support the hostility. All racists seek to justify their racism and the CTs are just the means to do it, but the hate has a life all of its own.

 

[Aunt Antifa]

Not all forms of racial bias are equally bad and important. We don't treat black hatred of white people as nearly a serious problem as racism against black people because one is amplified by systemic bigotry and bias.

Why don't we do the same with antisemitism? People of Jewish ancestry have all the benefits that come with ostensible whiteness plus they have even more disproportionate influence over politics, finance, and media than white people at large. Too often "antisemitism" is used the muddy that waters on the greater discussion of social justice at large (especially with respect to Israelie-Palestine issues). It's past time social justice and equity advocates recognize Ashkenazi Jewishness as a particularly toxic branch of institutional whiteness.

Hating people for being semitic is not the same as disagreeing with a religion/ideology.

 

[Phys251]

Well, context matters and it depends who is doing the criticism and why. While I may often disagree with it, much criticism of Israel is perfectly within the bounds of reason and based on things that any other government pursuing similar policies could reasonably be criticized for. But a lot of vitriol towards Israel is borne out of Jew-hatred. Some people who hate Jews and believe in antisemitism often use criticism of Israel, how it came into existence, and its policies as a cover for their hatred of Jews. And they often have their favorite "exception" Jews who they always like to cite to prove that they are not Jew haters like the insane ultra-Orthodox Neturei Karta sect (a sect which every Jew-hater loves to cite because they not only hate the existence of Israel but they believe that the Jews deserved to suffer the Holocaust). Certainly some members here who claim to value veracity at any price love to cite them in an effort to pretend that they are not Jew haters. Which is like a white supremacist citing Uncle Ruckus to dispel charges of racism.

Fair. I think we'd disagree with where the precise cap is on reasonable criticism of Israel's policies, but you're right that some but not all of those criticisms are fueled by antisemitism.

 

[oneworld2]

Well, context matters and it depends who is doing the criticism and why. While I may often disagree with it, much criticism of Israel is perfectly within the bounds of reason and based on things that any other government pursuing similar policies could reasonably be criticized for. But a lot of vitriol towards Israel is borne out of Jew-hatred. Some people who hate Jews and believe in antisemitism often use criticism of Israel, how it came into existence, and its policies as a cover for their hatred of Jews. And they often have their favorite "exception" Jews who they always like to cite to prove that they are not Jew haters like the insane ultra-Orthodox Neturei Karta sect (a sect which every Jew-hater loves to cite because they not only hate the existence of Israel but they believe that the Jews deserved to suffer the Holocaust). Certainly some members here who claim to value veracity at any price love to cite them in an effort to pretend that they are not Jew haters. Which is like a white supremacist citing Uncle Ruckus to dispel charges of racism.

It is obvious that antisemites would seek to use criticism of Israeli policies as a boon to vent their dislike of Jews but they are pretty obvious to spot when they do it. The other side of the coin is those using the defence of all things Israeli as a smokescreen for their anti Arab/Muslim bigotry and the same applies.

 

[Cardinal]

Not all forms of racial bias are equally bad and important. We don't treat black hatred of white people as nearly a serious problem as racism against black people because one is amplified by systemic bigotry and bias.

Why don't we do the same with antisemitism? People of Jewish ancestry have all the benefits that come with ostensible whiteness plus they have even more disproportionate influence over politics, finance, and media than white people at large. Too often "antisemitism" is used the muddy that waters on the greater discussion of social justice at large (especially with respect to Israelie-Palestine issues). It's past time social justice and equity advocates recognize Ashkenazi Jewishness as a particularly toxic branch of institutional whiteness.

Essentially the entire point behind antisemitism is the belief that they (the antisemites) are punching up. In fact, it’s quite literally the core of antisemitism.

 

[X Factor]

As true as that may be, my point about anti-antisemitism getting constantly conflated with criticism of Israel's government's policies remains.

I stand firmly against anti-semitism, but people must be able to criticize a government's actions.

Not everyone that’s anti Israel is anti Semitic but everyone who is anti Semitic is anti Israel. I mean, it is something to watch for just as much as racism against black people, right? We can’t say that, as long as someone substitutes “Israelis” for “Jews” there’s no way they could possibly be anti Semitic. Goodness knows people have seen racism in much less than someone wishing Israel didn’t exist.

 

[dave8383]

Not all forms of racial bias are equally bad and important. We don't treat black hatred of white people as nearly a serious problem as racism against black people because one is amplified by systemic bigotry and bias.

Why don't we do the same with antisemitism? People of Jewish ancestry have all the benefits that come with ostensible whiteness plus they have even more disproportionate influence over politics, finance, and media than white people at large. Too often "antisemitism" is used the muddy that waters on the greater discussion of social justice at large (especially with respect to Israelie-Palestine issues). It's past time social justice and equity advocates recognize Ashkenazi Jewishness as a particularly toxic branch of institutional whiteness.

Hmmm, sounds a bit anti-Semitic. Or am I misunderstanding?

 

[X Factor]

Anti-Israeli policy is definitely not anti-Semitism.

It’s puzzling to me that this a more important point to some than calling out the idiocy of the OP. Why is that?

 

[X Factor]

Not all forms of racial bias are equally bad and important. We don't treat black hatred of white people as nearly a serious problem as racism against black people because one is amplified by systemic bigotry and bias.

Why don't we do the same with antisemitism? People of Jewish ancestry have all the benefits that come with ostensible whiteness plus they have even more disproportionate influence over politics, finance, and media than white people at large. Too often "antisemitism" is used the muddy that waters on the greater discussion of social justice at large (especially with respect to Israelie-Palestine issues). It's past time social justice and equity advocates recognize Ashkenazi Jewishness as a particularly toxic branch of institutional whiteness.

While others are rushing to make sure it’s acceptable to trash Israel, I’ll be the one to tell you unequivocally that anti Semitism is no more acceptable than racism.

 

[dave8383]

Essentially the entire point behind antisemitism is the belief that they (the antisemites) are punching up. In fact, it’s quite literally the core of antisemitism.

Get the Jews because they control Hollywood, congressional spending, the media, the banks, etc. etc.

 

[Cardinal]

Get the Jews because they control Hollywood, congressional spending, the media, the banks, etc. etc.

Exactly.

 

[Noodlegawd]

.... but people must be able to criticize a government's actions.

You mean Democrats, right? It's always racism when Republicans do it.