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Is America at war, or not?

The AUMFs combined with long-standing precedent qualifies these conflicts as "wars" under the Constitution.

RONALD V

Only Congress Can Declare War

"The framers of the Constitution attempted to balance the power of the President as commander-in-chief with that of Congress, the representatives of the People.

Article II, Section 2 of the Constitution gives to the Executive Branch the command of the nation’s armed forces, while Article I, Section 8 gives to the Legislative Branch the power to decide when the United States goes to war."
Only Congress Can Declare War|Tenth Amendment Center
 
Both of which perpetrated numerous acts of war against the U.S. prior to their liberation.

what is it exactly that Afghanistan did? you may want to refresh me on what Iraq did to us as well. i would like to see exactly what things they did. Iraq invaded Kuwait. they attacked someone and they were pushed out. that was not an attack on us. what did they do after the first Gulf conflict.

i can't seem to think of anything the actual nation of Afghanistan did.

liberation what a laugh. you have got to be kidding.
 

Not according to the Pentagon report who found no connection between Saddam and al Qaeda. They did not get along.

We killed far more innocent Iraqis than the accused terrorists killed Americans. Should we have a trial or a military tribunal for our crimes?
 

And Congress did, via the AUMFs. You're operating under the mistaken assumption that Congress must say the magic words: "This is a declaration of war." That's false. Read Dellums, or Bas v. Tingy:


BAS V. TINGY, 4 U. S. 37 (1800) -- US Supreme Court Cases from Justia & Oyez

Or Orlando v. Laird:


Salvatore ORLANDO, Plaintiff-Appellant, v
 

just the bolded. you must be joking when you say the official reports. are you really so naive to think that the government tells you the truth. my goodness. how many lies are issued by government everyday? stop your so funny.
 
Yes, I know what superfluous means.

No you obviously don't.

I never knew it to be applied to criminal charges before.

Bin Laden has already been indicted for "conspiracy to attack defense utilities of the United States", and for the "Murder of US Nationals Outside the United States, Conspiracy to Murder US Nationals Outside the United States, and Attacks on a Federal Facility Resulting in Death," tell me why would a 3 indictment be necessary at this point?

Every other criminal I have seen did not have any superfluous charges.

He is already wanted on capital charges, why would a third indictment be necessary at this point?

Every single charge was brought against them. So if I commit a dozen murders, I would only be charged with one, because the other 11 were superfluous?

Many indictments for murder are issued after the person has already been taken into custody on previous indictments and in many cases where they have already been sentenced for other murders. And once again Bin Laden has been indicted in Spain by Investigative Magistrate Baltasar Garzon specifically for the 9-11 attacks.

You don't have to convince me. Convince the FBI!

So do you believe OBL is responsible for 9-11 or not?
 
And Congress did, via the AUMFs. You're operating under the mistaken assumption that Congress must say the magic words: "This is a declaration of war." That's false. Read Dellums, or Bas v. Tingy:

Does not apply, all congress did was Authorize Bush to make the decision to invade Iraq. Bush made the decision.
 

any such permission that your Congress gave was under the false information issued from the Executive. they were lied to. you can keep believing all the lies you want. that is up to you.
 
Does not apply

Oh, well if you say so...

all congress did was Authorize Bush to make the decision to invade Iraq. Bush made the decision.

And even if that mattered (which it doesn't) what the **** does that have to do with the AUMF Afghanistan?

any such permission that your Congress gave was under the false information issued from the Executive. they were lied to. you can keep believing all the lies you want. that is up to you.

And how exactly does that change the fact that they were duly enacted?
 
So do you believe OBL is responsible for 9-11 or not?

In that he is the leader of the terrorist's group. I don't think that he can be charged in the US merely on those grounds.

If you have a link to the US Justice system charges against him, please post it.
 
what is it exactly that Afghanistan did?

AQ was part and parcel to the Taliban government led by Mullah Omar, they had a seat on the Taliban's ministry of defense, there was a special branch of the Taliban military known as the 055 brigade which was made up exclusively of AQ fighters, and the Taliban granted them a safe haven in which to train and from which to launch attacks. The Taliban government were co-conspirators in the 9-11 attacks.

When people claim that the Taliban didn't attack us it's like saying that if the CIA decided to bomb a building in; say, Saudi Arabia, that it wasn't the U.S. government attacking them.

you may want to refresh me on what Iraq did to us as well.

He fired on our aircraft in the no-fly zone on a nearly daily basis. He attempted to assassinate our former head of state GHWB. And he was collaborating with Islamist extremists (including AQ affiliates) to attack the U.S. right up until the fall of Baghdad.

liberation what a laugh. you have got to be kidding.

No I'm not kidding, perhaps you would rather two of arguably the most brutal regimes of the latter half of the 20th century still in power, however, I support liberating oppressed peoples and self governance.
 
In that he is the leader of the terrorist's group.

He financed the attacks and he conspired with the ringleader KSM to perpetrate the attack.

I don't think that he can be charged in the US merely on those grounds.

He can be charged with conspiracy to perpetrate that specific act of terrorism and financing that specific act of terrorism.

If you have a link to the US Justice system charges against him, please post it.[/QUOTE]

There are only currently two indictments against Bin Laden, the first indictment issued by a grand jury on June 8, 1998 and charged OBL with "conspiracy to attack defense utilities of the United States", and the second superseding indictment was issued by the United States District Court for the Southern District of New York on November 4, 1998 and charged him with the "Murder of US Nationals Outside the United States, Conspiracy to Murder US Nationals Outside the United States, and Attacks on a Federal Facility Resulting in Death.

The charges are listed here:

Grand Jury indictment of Osama bin Laden - Wikisource
 
And the International War Crimes Tribunal has brought charges against Bush.

Man, those guys at the IWCT are dumb. They misspelled "Dick Cheney" as "Danforth Quayle."
 
For starters, they are not war criminals, since we have never officially declared war.

The Congress has issued an AUMF which is legally tantamount to a declaration of war. There was no declaration of war issued against Serbia or Yugoslavia either, so does that mean that Milosivic wasn't a war criminal?

See here for other reasons.

Um under Article 1 Section 8 the Congress has the power to create tribunals and make the rules regarding capture of land and naval forces.
 

I know that and have already posted those charges as listed on the FBI website.

Nothing there about charges for the 9/11 attack, or anywhere else that myself or anyone else have been able to locate.

If you have a link to the US Justice system charges against him for 9/11, please post it.
 

Um once again it's not necessary at this point. Give me one reason why they have to indict him now for 9-11 when they can just as easily do it once he is captured and while he is already under indictment for capital charges? Oh and once a freaking gain he is under indictment in Spain specifically for the 9-11 attacks.
 
just the bolded. you must be joking when you say the official reports. are you really so naive to think that the government tells you the truth. my goodness. how many lies are issued by government everyday? stop your so funny.

Yep all of the members working on the official inquiries are in on the conspiracy dontcha know. :roll: For the facts you have to go to prison planet.
 

And this is pertinent to our invasion of Iraq without a threat being demonstrated in what way?
 
Um once again it's not necessary at this point. Give me one reason why they have to indict him now for 9-11 when they can just as easily do it once he is captured and while he is already under indictment for capital charges?

You couldn't find any US charges against OBL for 9/11 either huh?
 
And this is pertinent to our invasion of Iraq without a threat being demonstrated in what way?

And since you avoided the question earlier, how the **** does the Iraq War and its validity have anything to do with detainees who were captured pursuant to the AUMF-Afghanistan?
 
any such permission that your Congress gave was under the false information issued from the Executive. they were lied to.

So AQ was not responsible for the 9-11 attacks? Lemme guess it was the reptilian shape shifters in the study with the genesis arc?
 
And since you avoided the question earlier, how the **** does the Iraq War and its validity have anything to do with detainees who were captured pursuant to the AUMF-Afghanistan?

If I understand correctly what you are referring to, because the context of the Iraq war comment was in regards to the failed war on terror which includes both Iraq and Afghanistan.

If you meant another question, please ****ing specify (to put it in a language you are familiar with). I've noticed you like that word, so I will endeavor to insert it into my responses to you whenever possible. I apologize for its absence before. I had not realized it was so important to you.
 
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