IRS: Cheapest Obamacare Plan Will Be $20,000 Per Family

iliveonramen · Jun 3, 2013

jmotivator said:
Only an idiot destroys a great health care system in order to fix a $90 prescription.
.

Destroyed how...by making people buy insurance instead of being deadbeats that show up for healthcare and not pay? Where exactly is the "destroying" taking place because under Obamacare I have the same insurance, pay the same prices, and will visit the same doctors, for the same care, and the same treatment. Hyperbole much?

By the way, that too is mostly a myth, because you can pick and choose some medications that are cheaper in other countries and claim an urgent need to take a torch to the medical system, but you ignore so may other medications that are cheaper in the US (and big evil Walmart et al are making most common drugs cheap even without insurance). But then that is the liberal way, making the exception the rule and legislating to it, plowing under everything that worked in the process.

I believe you are the one pointing out the exception to the rule. It's only generic drugs and only one country.

Obamacare is effectively taking a torch to your house to fix a stuck door.

Which is the torch...

everyone has insurance...

They purchase them from competitive exchanges...

there is a minimum for what an insurance policy should provide....

what exactly is the torch here.

Lutherf · Jun 3, 2013

iguanaman said:
Cheaper but you get nothing for your money. It's cheaper just to die too if that is all you care about.

Right...but now that you can no longer be denied for pre-existing conditions then when something goes wrong you simply hit up the exchange, get your insurance, have your bills paid and then, once everything is back to normal, drop the insurance again.

Mach · Jun 3, 2013

Verax said:
I don't really understand how so many people on this forum think our healthcare is even remotely good? I can't think of a person I have ever met in real life that described our health care system as providing quality care at affordable prices? Where are you guys getting these notions that all is well??? It is absolutely baffling.

The issues are typically government involvement in medicine and insurance. Being able to choose any physician I want based on my own judge of them, finding one that supports my medical goals or beliefs, etc., is important. Getting the absolute best care for serious conditions, rather than a government mandated physician or treatment regimen is good.

I want freedom and highest tech care. I get both I suspect in the U.S.

apdst · Jun 3, 2013

iliveonramen said:
Destroyed how...by making people buy insurance instead of being deadbeats that show up for healthcare and not pay? Where exactly is the "destroying" taking place because under Obamacare I have the same insurance, pay the same prices, and will visit the same doctors, for the same care, and the same treatment. Hyperbole much?

I believe you are the one pointing out the exception to the rule. It's only generic drugs and only one country.

Which is the torch...

everyone has insurance...

They purchase them from competitive exchanges...

there is a minimum for what an insurance policy should provide....

what exactly is the torch here.

Destroyed, because they created a law that will make it impossible for anyone but the rich to afford healthcare, which will cause a collapse of the system, forcing the government to institute a single payer system. The Dems will use it as an excuse and the Reps won't have any choice.

jmotivator · Jun 3, 2013

mak2 said:
UHC will.

No it won't. UHC controlls access in order to control cost.

And the elephant in the room here is the number of people the new system would put out of work in highly skilled positions with no comparable work available. I mean, if Obamacare or UHC was able to convert the US total medical cost to that of, say, France, what they will have done in a macroeconomic sense is eliminate 6% of the US economy with nothing on tap to move the highly trained medical staff to.

In other words, it is a huge clusterf**k even if it meets it's goals.

fmw · Jun 3, 2013

mak2 said:
Are you kidding? We have the most expensive healthcare system in the world and lag in all major indicators. One surgery cost 4k in one hospital and 90k in the next and you want to proof? REally?

Then the insurance companies haven't been doing their job. If the surgery can be done for 4K then they should force the 90K hospital to lower its price. That is the way it works, by the way. Now with government involvement it will probably be 90K at the place that once did it for 4K.

apdst · Jun 3, 2013

mak2 said:
Are you kidding? We have the most expensive healthcare system in the world and lag in all major indicators. One surgery cost 4k in one hospital and 90k in the next and you want to proof? REally?

It's free in Thailand. Wanna swap with them?

Bronson · Jun 3, 2013

mak2 said:
UHC will.

Only through rationing and denying care. Cheaper for the Government. Not cheaper for the citizen who has to suffer under such an idiotic system.

Obamacare was sold on lies. Does that bother you?

iliveonramen · Jun 3, 2013

apdst said:
Destroyed, because they created a law that will make it impossible for anyone but the rich to afford healthcare, which will cause a collapse of the system, forcing the government to institute a single payer system. The Dems will use it as an excuse and the Reps won't have any choice.

Actually I'd argue that a collapse is what we were heading to. Most folks that were healthy were opting out of insurance because it was getting to expernsive and the only one's getting insured where those that would need it the most.

I'm not sure how it's impossible for anyone but the rich to afford healthcare. People were paying 20,000 bucks for a family of 4 pre-Obamacare. The price of insurance has been rising for decades...

jmotivator · Jun 3, 2013

mak2 said:
Actually chemo drugs and many other drugs are very dangerous, and all drugs have side effects.

So?

and no, if there is no reason to belive it will help, or if it will cause more harm than good, to a patient it should not be given.

So you now take it on yourself to make that decision for other people rather than that person and that person's physician making the decision?

Think of it as risk vs benefit.

I have. Your own statement would rather take that risk analysis out of my hands and hand it to government bean counters.

I have seen chemo cause great harm and even have fatal side effects.

You do realize that chemo treats cancer, right? And that people die from cancer? Your idiotic argument is somehow trying to pose the preposterous argument that chemo is somehow more dangerous than the cancer the person already has.

I dont even know where you got the 2b idea or the rest of that post. Are you a doctor or did you stay at the Holiday Inn Express last night? But I gotta go home. Nice chatting with you today

Because when the NHS makes a drug unavailable they are denying access to ALL UK CITIZENS. It says so right there in the article. It's not the NHS denying to pay for a drug for one patient. They refuse to offer the drug at all.

apdst · Jun 3, 2013

iliveonramen said:
Actually I'd argue that a collapse is what we were heading to. Most folks that were healthy were opting out of insurance because it was getting to expernsive and the only one's getting insured where those that would need it the most.

I'm not sure how it's impossible for anyone but the rich to afford healthcare. People were paying 20,000 bucks for a family of 4 pre-Obamacare. The price of insurance has been rising for decades...

So, raising the cost of an insurance policy to 20 g's a year is going to prevent that collapse?

Even the guys that wrote the bill are saying it's a wreck looking for a place to happen.

iliveonramen · Jun 3, 2013

apdst said:
So, raising the cost of an insurance policy to 20 g's a year is going to prevent that collapse?

Even the guys that wrote the bill are saying it's a wreck looking for a place to happen.

First of all...the 20,000 dollar cost was used as a minimum by the IRS as the price on how it will calculate the tax penalty if a family fails to obtain health coverage. The IRS has stated that it's not an estimate of premiums. If you remember the penalty is based on the price of insurance.

Health care costs to exceed $20,000 per family in 2012 - Mar. 29, 2012

The healthcare cost for a family is already around 20,000. The cost of insurance has been growing 7% or 8% annually since 2002.

So I'm not sure what conservatives are talking about but they seem to give the impression that everything was dandy until Obamacare which is very very very very false.

Also it's estimated that nearly 80% of individuals that will be using the exchanges will receive a subsidy based on their income.

ReformCollege · Jun 3, 2013

roughdraft274 said:
Good guarantee, lol. I have a single friend with no insurance that is just leaving the hospital. He was always very healthy, non smoker, no issues, single, just as you are talking about. He had an aneurysm. Had to have surgery to fix it, followed by 11 days in the ICU in case he had a follow up stroke, common for aneurysm patients apparently, followed by two days in a private room at the hospital and is expected to get discharged today. He's trying to file paperwork and such to get some kind of financial aid for the bills from the government through the hospital, but as of two nights ago, his bill, just to the hospital, not including the doctor's cut for the actual surgery, the ambulance ride to the hospital, all of the various other groups is at $210,000. And that is still climbing, and once you include every other bill, it's probably closer to 250,000. Wouldn't surprise me one tiny bit if his bill was $300,000+ at the time of discharge.

How much of that do you suspect he will pay?

j-mac · Jun 3, 2013

iliveonramen said:
...what exactly is the torch here.

The IPAB

iliveonramen · Jun 3, 2013

j-mac said:
The IPAB

The IPAB only deals with Medicare and can't do anything that leads to a reduction of coverage or increased cost to Medicare recipiants. Not to mention Congress can override the IPAB.

So you are for Medicare reimbursements and stuff being set by the very Congress that receives millions a year from medical and pharma lobbyist? To me the current system seems counter intuitive. Industry basically writes the rules.

j-mac · Jun 3, 2013

iliveonramen said:
The IPAB only deals with Medicare and can't do anything that leads to a reduction of coverage or increased cost to Medicare recipiants. Not to mention Congress can override the IPAB.

So you are for Medicare reimbursements and stuff being set by the very Congress that receives millions a year from medical and pharma lobbyist? To me the current system seems counter intuitive. Industry basically writes the rules.

No, I didn't say that, but I am looking at this from my point of view. Based on the story, regulation is setting the cost of the lowest coverage at $20K per year.

My company has expressed concerns that they may not be able to continue our coverage.

My wife takes medication now that on its own one prescription would cost me roughly $1200. per month, but I can't afford to by my own plan at @$1200. per month either....

So, while Obama preached that he was for the middle class like me, I am getting the shaft more than anyone.....You supporters think that is fair?

Somerville · Jun 3, 2013

jmotivator said:
The difference in life expectancy between the US and other nations is predominantly from the high death rate of young Americans to gang violence and auto accidents. In fact, when you remove unnatural deaths from the record the US life expectancy jumps to #1 in the world. Health care doesn't fix that. In fact, stupid idiotic bureaucrats often point to low life expectancy in poor populations and decide what they REALLY need is diet training, ignoring that they are all shooting one another.

Ironically, the US has the highest survival rate for gunshot wounds as well, because those hospitals in large cities get plenty of practice (ironically in the areas with the strictest gun laws!). But even still, far more people die in the US from gunshot wounds (predominantly gang related) because there are so many of them.

The liberal health care myth is having a catastrophic impact on the US health care system. It is a classic case of bad government planning built on spurious statistics leading to bad legislation.

Wrong.

The study quoted is only relevant for Los Angeles County, it might also apply to Cook County in Illinois (Chicago) and a couple of other urban areas but it does not apply across the major portion of America.

A bit more relevant is a study showing that at age 65, the United States has slightly lower life expectancy than most of the OECD nations;
at 65 years, American women have a life expectancy of additional 19.8 years, American men an additional 17.1 years
Australia - women 21.6 years, men 18.6
Austria - women 21.1 years, men 17.7
Denmark - women 19.5 years. men 16.6
Finland - women 21.4 years, men 17.5
Germany - women 20.7 years. men 17.6
Greece - women 19.9 years, men 17.7
Iceland - women 20.5 years, men 18.2
Ireland - women 20.4 years, men 17.2

just a few examples.

Here's a link to a study that looked at life expectancies in every county in the US - http://www.pophealthmetrics.com/content/pdf/1478-7954-9-16.pdf
The graphics on pg 4 are rather 'interesting'

A summation:

Results
In 2007, life expectancy at birth for American men and
women was 75.6 and 80.8 years, ranking 37th and 37th,
respectively, in the world. Across US counties, life
expectancy at birth ranged from 65.9 to 81.1 years for
men and 73.5 to 86.0 years for women (Figure 1a). Geo-
graphically, the lowest life expectancies for both sexes
were in counties in Appalachia and the Deep South,
extending across northern Texas. Counties with the
highest life expectancies tended to be in the northern
Plains and along the Pacific coast and the Eastern Sea-
board. In addition to these broad geographic patterns,
there are more isolated counties with low life expectan-
cies in a number of western counties with large Native
American populations. Clusters of counties with high
life expectancies for males and females are seen in Col-
orado, Minnesota, Utah, California, Washington, and Florida

SheWolf · Jun 3, 2013

I wouldn't be surprised either. It's very sad that medical costs are so high. We need to do something to fix the costs and price gouging.

It just seems immoral and wrong.

roughdraft274 said:
Good guarantee, lol. I have a single friend with no insurance that is just leaving the hospital. He was always very healthy, non smoker, no issues, single, just as you are talking about. He had an aneurysm. Had to have surgery to fix it, followed by 11 days in the ICU in case he had a follow up stroke, common for aneurysm patients apparently, followed by two days in a private room at the hospital and is expected to get discharged today. He's trying to file paperwork and such to get some kind of financial aid for the bills from the government through the hospital, but as of two nights ago, his bill, just to the hospital, not including the doctor's cut for the actual surgery, the ambulance ride to the hospital, all of the various other groups is at $210,000. And that is still climbing, and once you include every other bill, it's probably closer to 250,000. Wouldn't surprise me one tiny bit if his bill was $300,000+ at the time of discharge.

American · Jun 3, 2013

PeteEU said:
Yes, and in Spain they have actually started to educate the population on costs... healthcare is free (well pretty much) but you get a bill when you are in hospital. That way people get to see how much it actually costs and frankly it is a good idea.

Stop ****ing lying, nothing is FREE. You pay taxes. Nothing is free, nothing is free, nothing is free....got it? I'm so sick of people lying about healthcare costs. NOTHING IS ****ING FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE.

azgreg · Jun 3, 2013

American said:
Stop ****ing lying, nothing is FREE. You pay taxes. Nothing is free, nothing is free, nothing is free....got it? I'm so sick of people lying about healthcare costs. NOTHING IS ****ING FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE.

What are you trying to say/

iguanaman · Jun 4, 2013

Lutherf said:
Right...but now that you can no longer be denied for pre-existing conditions then when something goes wrong you simply hit up the exchange, get your insurance, have your bills paid and then, once everything is back to normal, drop the insurance again.

The answer is to raise the tax which I believe is already in the bill. It's sad that some still won't take advantage of the subsidies and stop the games but you can lead a horse to water....

upsideguy · Jun 4, 2013

j-mac said:
So much for bending the cost curve down eh? Wow! Why would anyone not just pay the tax? Man, what a lie we were forced into with this crap.

Once again the Cons have to lead with an article from a political porn site. If you can't back up your statement with something from real news, you do not have a point make. You can enjoy your fantasies, just don't try to drag the rest us into them.

j-mac · Jun 4, 2013

upsideguy said:
Once again the Cons have to lead with an article from a political porn site. If you can't back up your statement with something from real news, you do not have a point make. You can enjoy your fantasies, just don't try to drag the rest us into them.

CNS is a news outlet that is credentialed, and represented in the WH press pool. That they don't spin the news with a left leaning bias, is why I suspect you don't like them. In any case, attacking the source is a well worn fallacy. Is there something in the article presented you can dispute? If not your post has no relevance to the thread.

mak2 · Jun 4, 2013

Remember what I said about people that think healthcare is free?

apdst said:
It's free in Thailand. Wanna swap with them?

roughdraft274 · Jun 4, 2013

ReformCollege said:
How much of that do you suspect he will pay?

My gut is that he'll either file bankruptcy or just not pay it. I doubt the hospital would try to garnish wages in that amount. It'll get passed on to other people that actually have insurance or that actually pay their bills.

IRS: Cheapest Obamacare Plan Will Be $20,000 Per Family

iliveonramen

Pontificator

Lutherf

Mach

apdst

jmotivator

Computer Gaming Nerd

fmw

apdst

Bronson

iliveonramen

Pontificator

jmotivator

Computer Gaming Nerd

apdst

iliveonramen

Pontificator

ReformCollege

j-mac

iliveonramen

Pontificator

j-mac

Somerville

SheWolf

American

Trump Grump Whisperer

azgreg

Chicks dig the long ball

iguanaman

upsideguy

Pragmatic Idealist

j-mac

mak2

roughdraft274

ThunderCougarFalconBird

IRS: Cheapest Obamacare Plan Will Be $20,000 Per Family

Pontificator

Computer Gaming Nerd

Pontificator

Computer Gaming Nerd

Pontificator

Pontificator

Trump Grump Whisperer

Chicks dig the long ball

Pragmatic Idealist

ThunderCougarFalconBird

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency