Iraqis cannot forget what Americans have done here’ [W:124]

[katsung47]

Petagon got fat budget.Americans harvest hatred.

Iraqis cannot forget what Americans have done here’


By Global Research News

Global Research, December01, 2012

I sat in on a lecture, givenin English, to maybe fifty or more young men and women at a college in Ramadi.

Then a young man in thefront row only a couple of feet from me said in a quiet voice “We have nothingto say. The last years have been only sad ones.” Again there was silence.

Sami, my host from Najaf andpart of the Muslim Peacemaker Team, stood and shared. He told the story of how,after the U.S. bombing assaults on Fallujah, he and others came from the Shiacities of Najaf and Karbala, to carry out a symbolic act of cleaning up rubbleand trash in the streets of Fallujah. This gesture, he said, melted hearts andhealed some of the brokenness between Sunni and Shia. He
spoke of the delegation of peacemakers fromthe United States who were just in Najaf for twelve days, of the work to buildbridges and seek reconciliation.

An impassioned young womanfrom the middle of the lecture hall spoke up. It was obviously not easy forher. “It is not,” she said, “about lack of water and electricity [something Ihad mentioned]. You have destroyed everything. You have destroyed our country.You have destroyed what is inside of us! You have destroyed our ancientcivilization. You have taken our smiles from us. You have
taken our dreams!”

Someone asked, “Why did youthis? What did we do to you that you would do this to us?”

“Iraqis cannot forget whatAmericans have done here,” said another. “They destroyed the childhood. Youdon’t destroy everything and then say ‘We’re sorry.’ “You don’t commit crimesand then say ‘Sorry.’”

“To bomb us and then sendteams to do investigations on the effects of the bombs…No, it will not beforgotten. It is not written on our hearts, it is carved in our hearts.”

http://www.globalresearch.ca/iraqis-cannot-forget-what-americans-have-done-here/5313695?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=iraqis-cannot-forget-what-americans-have-done-here

 

[Mycroft]

Petagon got fat budget.Americans harvest hatred.

The Iraqis, themselves, had a lot to do with the destruction in their country.

just sayin'...

 

[Goshin]

Apparently we didn't bomb them enough.

 

[johnny_rebson]

The Iraqis, themselves, had a lot to do with the destruction in their country.

just sayin'...

Right on.

The people of Iraq kept reelecting Saddam even though he was stockpiling WMD.

 

[Mycroft]

Right on.

The people of Iraq kept reelecting Saddam even though he was stockpiling WMD.

Actually, what I had in mind was the damage the Iraqis did to their own country AFTER Saddam was gone.

 

[Boo Radley]

Actually, what I had in mind was the damage the Iraqis did to their own country AFTER Saddam was gone.

What did anyone expect? Even an Iraqi cab driver before the invasion knew what was coming? Sure he wasn't alone. When you bring war to a place, destabilize, this does open the door for others.

 

[Sherman123]

Petagon got fat budget.Americans harvest hatred.

Just to be clear this is an article from Global Research, an anti-globalization and avowedly leftist news organization that produces and links material from anti-war, ISP, etc. Moreover the article details the opinions of a few Iraqis from one classroom that the author sat in on. While opinions of the United States are low according to opinion polls, they have improved incrementally since the withdrawal. Perhaps more saliently poll after poll of Iraqis has indicated that they opposed the rule of Saddam Hussein, that they would not trade their plight for a reconstituted and stable Baathist dictatorship, and that they want to see their democracy succeed. Even in the depths of the insurgency in 2006, some 77% of Iraqis still thought it better than being ruled by Saddam, with almost 80% including 15% of Sunni's (an astounding number at that time) saying the overthrow of Saddam was "Worth it".

http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/pdf/jan06/Iraq_Jan06_rpt.pdf

The narrative I think can be more accurately framed as a country and a people that held deep resentment towards the United States for our failures in preventing the security collapse and the indignities the Bremer government inflicted that hobbled a transitional government. Moreover by combining guilt and culpability with the role of an occupier in a proud country it was a cauldron for creating anti-US sentiment with the US being pilloried (guilty or not) for Iraq's problems. However few Iraqi's opposed the toppling of Saddam, or would rather have their old government returned to them and strong majorities believe his overthrow was justified and worth while. As Iraq hopefully stabilizes further and democracy is retrenched, and as time passes, these hostile feelings will ebb as they already have to a limited degree.

 

[iguanaman]

Actually, what I had in mind was the damage the Iraqis did to their own country AFTER Saddam was gone.

By that you're implying that they would have done that to themselves if we hadn't come in at all? That when Rumsfeld said "Democracy is messy" it wasn't because we didn't have a clue what to do after Sadaam was defeated? Surely you jest.

 

[Mycroft]

By that you're implying that they would have done that to themselves if we hadn't come in at all? That when Rumsfeld said "Democracy is messy" it wasn't because we didn't have a clue what to do after Sadaam was defeated? Surely you jest.

Actually, I haven't implied anything. I very clearly stated my opinion.

 

[Mycroft]

What did anyone expect? Even an Iraqi cab driver before the invasion knew what was coming? Sure he wasn't alone. When you bring war to a place, destabilize, this does open the door for others.

shrug...

They made their choices at the time.

 

[iguanaman]

Right on.

The people of Iraq kept reelecting Saddam even though he was stockpiling WMD.

You are bating 1000 tonight.
He had no WMD's and he never had real elections either. He was a dictator.

 

[Boo Radley]

shrug...

They made their choices at the time.

They who?

 

[Misterveritis]

You are bating 1000 tonight.
He had no WMD's and he never had real elections either. He was a dictator.

So you believe the Syrians created their own chemical weapons?

 

[Boo Radley]

So you believe the Syrians created their own chemical weapons?

Any evidence they got them from Iraq?

 

[Mycroft]

They who?

ummm...

The ones who had a part in destruction in their country.


Come on, dude, this thread isn't THAT long yet...try to keep up, eh?

 

[iguanaman]

So you believe the Syrians created their own chemical weapons?

I don't know? What does that have to do with Iraq? Your not blaming the Bungler in Chief Bush for losing them too are you. I thought losing Bin Laden in Bora Boara was bad enough. You must really think he was a moron. Get a grip.

 

[Boo Radley]

ummm...

The ones who had a part in destruction in their country.


Come on, dude, this thread isn't THAT long yet...try to keep up, eh?

I thought that was what you meant, but it is an effort to remove responsibility from the invader. There's no country in the world that if you destabilize it that won't have violence occur, even here. And in a country as divided and with the history of Iraq? It's more than disingenuous to pretend what happened was all their fault and that the US had no role.

 

[Caine]

I don't know? What does that have to do with Iraq? Your not blaming the Bungler in Chief Bush for losing them too are you. I thought losing Bin Laden in Bora Boara was bad enough. You must really think he was a moron. Get a grip.

Post 16....

Took longer than usual to turn a thread about Iraq into a "Bush Derrangement Syndrome" lovefest.

 

[Boo Radley]

Post 16....

Took longer than usual to turn a thread about Iraq into a "Bush Derrangement Syndrome" lovefest.

Who else invade Iraq? He was the decider. No discussion about what happened in Iraq can ever be had without talking about Bush. He is forever linked to his actions.

 

[Mycroft]

I thought that was what you meant, but it is an effort to remove responsibility from the invader. There's no country in the world that if you destabilize it that won't have violence occur, even here. And in a country as divided and with the history of Iraq? It's more than disingenuous to pretend what happened was all their fault and that the US had no role.

Here you go again...putting words in my mouth. (don't you ever get tired of doing that sort of thing?)

I made no statement that what happened "was all their fault" or "that the U.S. had no role". I only said that SOME of the blame is their own.

 

[Boo Radley]

Here you go again...putting words in my mouth. (don't you ever get tired of doing that sort of thing?)

I made no statement that what happened "was all their fault" or "that the U.S. had no role". I only said that SOME of the blame is their own.

You did use the word part, but your focus has been decidedly in one direction, ignoring almost completely that none of it happens absent our unasked for invasion.

 

[Caine]

Who else invade Iraq? He was the decider. No discussion about what happened in Iraq can ever be had without talking about Bush. He is forever linked to his actions.

Umm....... If you think this is about the invasion of Iraq, you are missing the point.

Besides.... "Bush Derrangement Syndrome" is often noted with completely unintelligent sounding discussion of President Bush (like "Bungler in Chief" or when people say "Shrub" etc), and ALWAYS interjected as a response to a topic that it had very little to do with..

In the case of this thread, it was quite a derailment to the mention of Chemical weapons to Syria.

 

[Sarcogito]

I sometimes wonder if most Americans lack the ability to put themselves in the shoes of other cultures and countries. Yes, many Iraqis are better off by our actions. But many are also worse off.

And what we call collateral damage, they call their family, friends, and neighbors. Military action by a foreign nation will usually generate more animosity than inaction, regardless of the intentions. No matter how much some of you may hate Obama, imagine a foreign nation invading the US to oust him and imagine the US didn't have the military power to stop them. Maybe thousands of Americans would be killed in the crossfire but would it be so bad if that invading nation then allowed us to have new elections to pick a new leader?

Something tells me even the most die hard Conservatives wouldn't think too highly of that nation.

You can dismiss that analogy all you want by pointing out the differences between Obama and Saddam and talking about the big political picture, but the joe blow on the street whose life has been turned upside down or seen those around him killed, the big picture probably won't assuage his rage all that much.

I realize empathy can be an inconvenient ability.

 

[iguanaman]

Umm....... If you think this is about the invasion of Iraq, you are missing the point.

Besides.... "Bush Derrangement Syndrome" is often noted with completely unintelligent sounding discussion of President Bush (like "Bungler in Chief" or when people say "Shrub" etc), and ALWAYS interjected as a response to a topic that it had very little to do with..

In the case of this thread, it was quite a derailment to the mention of Chemical weapons to Syria.

ooohh did I hurt your tender ears? I was responding to a post that was claiming Syria's chemical weapons came from Iraq right under our noses and "Shrub" too.
There is no evidence that I know of for that claim. I was actually defending Bush's "honor" by saying he couldn't have lost those chemical weapons too. You too need to get a grip.

 

[Boo Radley]

Umm....... If you think this is about the invasion of Iraq, you are missing the point.

Besides.... "Bush Derrangement Syndrome" is often noted with completely unintelligent sounding discussion of President Bush (like "Bungler in Chief" or when people say "Shrub" etc), and ALWAYS interjected as a response to a topic that it had very little to do with..

In the case of this thread, it was quite a derailment to the mention of Chemical weapons to Syria.

Everything stems from the invasion. As for the insulting nick names, listened to any discussions on Obama lately?

As for wmds, or the lack there of, always takes us back to why we invaded. Some have to try to explain away why their belief didn't pan out.