Iran 'to release British sailors'

[Voidwar]

Of course it has an economic angle. It would save the healthcare systems in Europe trillions before 2100. It would save consumers trillions that they can spend on other things. But most important, it would make the average mans health MUCH better.

Sorry, I see farther through you than that. Do not underestimate your own transparancy.

The U.S. makes the money in tobacco globally.

Now that you think you are past your addiction, you'd love to see it outlawed just because it would have a negative economic impact on American Tobacco.

 

[Maximus Zeebra]

Sorry, I see farther through you than that. Do not underestimate your own transparancy.

The U.S. makes the money in tobacco globally.

Now that you think you are past your addiction, you'd love to see it outlawed just because it would have a negative economic impact on American Tobacco.

Tobacco is horrible, do you contest that? It would save Europe trillions and trillions before 2100. Thats what I care about.

 

[Ikari]

Of course it has an economic angle. It would save the healthcare systems in Europe trillions before 2100. It would save consumers trillions that they can spend on other things. But most important, it would make the average mans health MUCH better.

Trillions? It would save Europe on the order of the US GDP if tobacco was make illegal. Forgive me if I find that tripe hard to swallow.

 

[Maximus Zeebra]

Trillions? It would save Europe on the order of the US GDP if tobacco was make illegal. Forgive me if I find that tripe hard to swallow.

So ****ing what? i dont care abut that, if it would save Europe trillions and millions of lifes, I honestly dont givbe a **** if the US would loose a trillion or two from it.

 

[Ikari]

The point was that trillion is right out. Somehow, making tobacco illegal is going to "save" 10 billion a year (which is a drop in the bucked compared to the EU GDP). Plus, I doubt that number takes into account lost revenue from tarrifs and taxes. Your numbers for "saving" money and lives...I call hyperbole on this.

Besides, it remains a choice of the individual and just because you think you're operating for the "greater good" does not give you the authority to impress your whim upon the people. Tyranny isn't for free states.

Also, you should care about the US economy, because our economy directly affects the European economy.

 

[WI Crippler]

The only "greater good" that Max Zebra is for is the establishment called the EU. If its influence grows at the cost of personal freedom of its citizens or from American demise, he does not care.
The glory of the EU trumps the glory of the individual......

 

[Kandahar]

Of course it has an economic angle. It would save the healthcare systems in Europe trillions before 2100.

So would changing your health care laws so that smoking-related illnesses weren't covered.

It would save consumers trillions that they can spend on other things.

That is the consumer's business, not yours.

But most important, it would make the average mans health MUCH better.

That is the average man's business, not yours.

 

[Maximus Zeebra]

The only "greater good" that Max Zebra is for is the establishment called the EU. If its influence grows at the cost of personal freedom of its citizens or from American demise, he does not care.
The glory of the EU trumps the glory of the individual......

The glory of smoking :roll:

 

[Maximus Zeebra]

So would changing your health care laws so that smoking-related illnesses weren't covered.



That is the consumer's business, not yours.



That is the average man's business, not yours.

Maybe we should just allow heroin and cocain to be sold in shops then, with big brands anf flashy packages?

 

[ludahai]

I have smoked for 8 years and said all kind of different things about cigarettes. Cigarettes dont bring ANY advantages to be honest, just ***cing horrible.

This is one of the few things I will ever be on the same side as Maximus on. Cigarettes are absolutely horrid. Public smoking should be absolutely prohibited. Smoking in homes or cars with children should be prohibited as it is child abuse. If people want to smoke in a place where no one else will be affected, fine. But they have to take care of their own medical bills and not rely on the public dime. Better yet, just ban the horrid stuff.

 

[Maximus Zeebra]

This is one of the few things I will ever be on the same side as Maximus on. Cigarettes are absolutely horrid. Public smoking should be absolutely prohibited. Smoking in homes or cars with children should be prohibited as it is child abuse. If people want to smoke in a place where no one else will be affected, fine. But they have to take care of their own medical bills and not rely on the public dime. Better yet, just ban the horrid stuff.

Smoking has done so many bad things to my health. I couldnt controle it at all.. A "wise" man(governator) once said that 95% of people need to be told what to do..

We need to help those who suffer from cigarettes, the best solution, maybe the only solution is illegalizing it once for all.

 

[Bergslagstroll]

This is one of the few things I will ever be on the same side as Maximus on. Cigarettes are absolutely horrid. Public smoking should be absolutely prohibited. Smoking in homes or cars with children should be prohibited as it is child abuse. If people want to smoke in a place where no one else will be affected, fine. But they have to take care of their own medical bills and not rely on the public dime. Better yet, just ban the horrid stuff.

Well in a country with universal healthcare their are nicer version then letting people have to pay for their healthcare themself then they get sick, taxing cigarettes so it covers the medical costs.

It has many benefits first of all cigarettes will be so expansive fewer people will but them. People still have a free choice but it will lesser way interfer on other persons freedom and also they can make a better informed choice by better realise the cost of smoking.

Also people have to pay in comparision to how big risk they take. With the pay your medical bill yourself choice you have a big "lucky/unlucky factor" some people can smoke 2 packs a days and be healthy while another just a few cigarettes and get lungcancer. Also you also don't have to a dicsusion about if the person illness is caused by cigarretes or something else.

The only problem with this solution is that we live on a much more globalmarket their it will be harder to stop smuggling. That would go up if this meauser was implimented.

 

[Maximus Zeebra]

Well in a country with universal healthcare their are nicer version then letting people have to pay for their healthcare themself then they get sick, taxing cigarettes so it covers the medical costs.

It has many benefits first of all cigarettes will be so expansive fewer people will but them. People still have a free choice but it will lesser way interfer on other persons freedom and also they can make a better informed choice by better realise the cost of smoking.

Also people have to pay in comparision to how big risk they take. With the pay your medical bill yourself choice you have a big "lucky/unlucky factor" some people can smoke 2 packs a days and be healthy while another just a few cigarettes and get lungcancer. Also you also don't have to a dicsusion about if the person illness is caused by cigarretes or something else.

The only problem with this solution is that we live on a much more globalmarket their it will be harder to stop smuggling. That would go up if this meauser was implimented.

Why do you defend cigarette smoking? It should be completely banned. Its the worst social and health disaster the world has ever encountered.

Trillions the consumer and healthcare system will save the next 100 years if its completely banned.

 

[Ikari]

Of course, smokers do subsidize pension plans, but whatever.

It comes down to a personal choice, if someone chooses to smoke than so be it. Not my place to tell them no, people can make their own minds up. We don't need this crappy, totalitarianism. This isn't Road House, and you ain't Patrick Swayze.

In the end Max, you smoked, you couldn't control it, it was your problem. But you want to go around throwing blame at whatever and then use it for some personal crusade against a substance you deemed bad. You think you got the greater good in mind, but the methodology necessary to ban tobacco and the reasons behind it are all crap. In the end, you'll save no money...you'll cost a lot more. Lost revenue, lost taxes, companies needing to pony up more cash to cover their pension plans, etc. And to top it all off, you'll have taken away a personal freedom. People are free to decide for themselves, and in a free society it must remain that way.

 

[Maximus Zeebra]

Of course, smokers do subsidize pension plans, but whatever.

It comes down to a personal choice, if someone chooses to smoke than so be it. Not my place to tell them no, people can make their own minds up. We don't need this crappy, totalitarianism. This isn't Road House, and you ain't Patrick Swayze.

In the end Max, you smoked, you couldn't control it, it was your problem. But you want to go around throwing blame at whatever and then use it for some personal crusade against a substance you deemed bad. You think you got the greater good in mind, but the methodology necessary to ban tobacco and the reasons behind it are all crap. In the end, you'll save no money...you'll cost a lot more. Lost revenue, lost taxes, companies needing to pony up more cash to cover their pension plans, etc. And to top it all off, you'll have taken away a personal freedom. People are free to decide for themselves, and in a free society it must remain that way.

You just dont understand that cigarettes are not a personal choice.. Its a hardcore addiction.

 

[BudLizard101]

You just dont understand that cigarettes are not a personal choice.. Its a hardcore addiction.

So why do I know so many people that stopped cold-turkey with cigarettes? If that's that hardcore, wouldn't they need some sort of help?

In the end, it was YOUR choice to pick up the cigarette and it's YOUR choice to continue to smoke them until you are "addicted."

 

[Ikari]

You just dont understand that cigarettes are not a personal choice.. Its a hardcore addiction.

I understand exactly what they are. You are not born addicted to cigarettes, there are people whom smoke casually, there are tons of people whom stop. It is a choice, quit trying to blame your mess ups on others. You made a choice, that choice had consequences, deal with it. While nicotine is extremely addictive, you made the choice to be an addict. And now because you don't want to accept responsibility for your choice, you wish to strip all others of their ability to make that choice. Yeah...that's a great logic train we should all follow. Get over yourself, not everyone will want to give up smoking, not everyone wants to strip people of their ability to make that choice for themselves. You are not supreme ruler of all and your whim is law...it would be quite a little scary tyrannical, Big Brother state if that were the case. Let people be free and take responsibility for your choices.

 

[Maximus Zeebra]

So why do I know so many people that stopped cold-turkey with cigarettes? If that's that hardcore, wouldn't they need some sort of help?

In the end, it was YOUR choice to pick up the cigarette and it's YOUR choice to continue to smoke them until you are "addicted."

Its not your choice to smoke..

Most everyone that quits heroin also do it cold-turkey;

 

[Ikari]

Someone makes that choice for you then, eh Max?

 

[Maximus Zeebra]

I understand exactly what they are. You are not born addicted to cigarettes, there are people whom smoke casually, there are tons of people whom stop. It is a choice, quit trying to blame your mess ups on others. You made a choice, that choice had consequences, deal with it. While nicotine is extremely addictive, you made the choice to be an addict. And now because you don't want to accept responsibility for your choice, you wish to strip all others of their ability to make that choice. Yeah...that's a great logic train we should all follow. Get over yourself, not everyone will want to give up smoking, not everyone wants to strip people of their ability to make that choice for themselves. You are not supreme ruler of all and your whim is law...it would be quite a little scary tyrannical, Big Brother state if that were the case. Let people be free and take responsibility for your choices.

I dont understand why you defend cigarettes.. Tell me why please?

I didnt do it by choice, I had my first cigarette when I was drunk. Besides I didnt know what i was getting myself into with cigarettes, I had no ****ing clue, its something you understand after years of smoking.

 

[Ikari]

I dont understand why you defend cigarettes.. Tell me why please?

I didnt do it by choice, I had my first cigarette when I was drunk. Besides I didnt know what i was getting myself into with cigarettes, I had no ****ing clue, its something you understand after years of smoking.

Oh yes, it's not your fault. It was the booze, you didn't know any better. Blah blah blah.

If I get ripped, blasted, and then get behind the wheel of a car only to get into an accident taking the life of another; are you to say I am not responsible for that death? We shouldn't prosecute DUI because they were drunk and thus not responsible for their actions? Hogwash

No one forced you to drink, no one forced you to smoke, no one forced you to be ignorant on the subject. Your choice, you did it all. You made the decision to drink, you made the decision to smoke, you made the decision to not educate yourself on the chemicals and drugs you were putting into your body. You got drunk and had a cigarette, but less you are an alcoholic you do not live your life in perpetual drunkenness. Which means, at some point you were sober and at some point you could have looked up the information, and at some point you could decide to stop. Your choice, your fault, your consequences; own up.

I do not defend the tobacco industry, I defend people's right to make choices for themselves. It is a personal choice with real consequences, and those consequences are the individual's to live up to. You want to remove blame, make yourself out to be a victim so you can feel better. But in the end, there is no one else whom controls your brain, no one else controls your nervous system, no one else can make you smoke. You made that choice yourself, grow up and accept responsibility.

 

[Maximus Zeebra]

Oh yes, it's not your fault. It was the booze, you didn't know any better. Blah blah blah.

If I get ripped, blasted, and then get behind the wheel of a car only to get into an accident taking the life of another; are you to say I am not responsible for that death? We shouldn't prosecute DUI because they were drunk and thus not responsible for their actions? Hogwash

No one forced you to drink, no one forced you to smoke, no one forced you to be ignorant on the subject. Your choice, you did it all. You made the decision to drink, you made the decision to smoke, you made the decision to not educate yourself on the chemicals and drugs you were putting into your body. You got drunk and had a cigarette, but less you are an alcoholic you do not live your life in perpetual drunkenness. Which means, at some point you were sober and at some point you could have looked up the information, and at some point you could decide to stop. Your choice, your fault, your consequences; own up.

I do not defend the tobacco industry, I defend people's right to make choices for themselves. It is a personal choice with real consequences, and those consequences are the individual's to live up to. You want to remove blame, make yourself out to be a victim so you can feel better. But in the end, there is no one else whom controls your brain, no one else controls your nervous system, no one else can make you smoke. You made that choice yourself, grow up and accept responsibility.

Ok then, so lets start selling heroin, cocaine, e, and other drugs in labelled packages in every store across the country as well than. its their choice anyways if they want to buy it.

 

[Ikari]

Ok then, so lets start selling heroin, cocaine, e, and other drugs in labelled packages in every store across the country as well than. its their choice anyways if they want to buy it.

Damned straight. All drugs should be legal, the government doesn't have the rightful authority to say no. People are free to make stupid, self-destructive choices if that is the path they wish to walk.

 

[Maximus Zeebra]

Damned straight. All drugs should be legal, the government doesn't have the rightful authority to say no. People are free to make stupid, self-destructive choices if that is the path they wish to walk.

Then we do agree.. Either all or nothing. I see no reason why cigarettes should be allowed as the only heavily addictive and health damaging substance with a massive addiction rate.

Until we legalize all the others and sell them in shops, cigarettes should also be illegal.

 

[GarzaUK]

Right guys lets try and keep this on topic. If you want to talk about smoking, start a thread about it.