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Interesting new study on giving money to homeless people

Choosing to help only those 50 carefully selected (and recently?) homeless folks without (any?) pre-existing mental health or substance abuse issues is cherry picking a small percentage among the homeless.

Trying to do that by law is apt to be very difficult. Giving help to those (selected few) among the homeless least in need of it is like offering “free” medical care (Medicaid?) only to those without serious medical problems (pre-existing conditions?).
Your reasoning on this subject is very muddled, my friend. I, unfortunately, worked my way backward through the thread, so I hadn't realized how far astray you had wandered previously. Others have taken the laboring oar in redirecting your thoughts.
 
I think that the best approach is to first deal with the majority (not a cherry picked minority) of people camping in public places (aka homeless). Those people happen to be mentally “challenged” and/or drug addicted.

Why is that the best approach? You want to not help lots of people that can be helped until everyone else’s problems are fixed? Doesn’t make sense.
 
OK, then what is being looked at for dealing with the majority of the homeless who are either mentally “challenged” and/or drug addicted?
That is a different thread.
 
That is much the same as having a crime fighting program aimed only at those who commit misdemeanors.
your approach is like having first responders to a fire insist that because they cannot save everyone, their efforts should not be expended to help those they could reach
 
That is much the same as having a crime fighting program aimed only at those who commit misdemeanors.
We have crime fighting programs aimed at only those that commit misdemeanors. They are quite effective. They are called "diversion" programs, and aim at societal benefits. That, by the way, was the point of having juvenile detention in the first place.
 
Why is that the best approach? You want to not help lots of people that can be helped until everyone else’s problems are fixed? Doesn’t make sense.

Because that would reduce crime (and drug gang profits) the most.
 
your approach is like having first responders to a fire insist that because they cannot save everyone, their efforts should not be expended to help those they could reach

Nope, using your fire fighting analogy - that would be having fighting major fires get priority over fighting minor fires.
 
this is from 1968 by the fellow who caused me to examine libertarianism ... his ideas are as practical now as they were then:
What is interesting about this - and history - is that Milton Freidman was wrong about so many things, but this is one point that he was right about that was ignored by the very people he was preaching it to. (You note Fulbright's dismissive tone? - god, he always was an arrogant asshole.) A negative income tax would be so much easier to administer than the myriad systems we currently have in place, and addresses, directly, the very population that needs it most.
 
We have crime fighting programs aimed at only those that commit misdemeanors. They are quite effective. They are called "diversion" programs, and aim at societal benefits. That, by the way, was the point of having juvenile detention in the first place.

Yet we have more crime fighting programs (and personnel assigned to them) for felonies. Thus we have far more adult detention facility capacity.
 
Nope, using your fire fighting analogy - that would be having fighting major fires get priority over fighting minor fires.
Again, my friend, your approach to this is very muddled. I think the better analogy is this: Firefighters use a variety of techniques to fight a variety of fires. Forest fires are fought differently than dumpster fires, or house fires. You don't use water on a grease fire, do you? Let the technique fit the problem. You are trying to apply forest fire solutions on a kitchen fire.
 
Yet we have more crime fighting programs (and personnel assigned to them) for felonies. Thus we have far more adult detention facility capacity.
Again, this is a different thread - we all know that there is a serious, serious problem with our penal system, and the mass incarceration of minor, non-violent criminals. You want to import those mistakes into homelessness?
 
Again, my friend, your approach to this is very muddled. I think the better analogy is this: Firefighters use a variety of techniques to fight a variety of fires. Forest fires are fought differently than dumpster fires, or house fires. You don't use water on a grease fire, do you? Let the technique fit the problem. You are trying to apply forest fire solutions on a kitchen fire.

Nope, I am trying to say that we should not ignore forest fires because kitchen fires are easier to successfully put out.
 
The saying, "a rising tide lifts all boats" - before it was coopted and misconstrued by Reagan - was an expression of that very principle. When we care for the least of us, it benefits all of us. Money flows uphill. That was the lesson of prosperity we demonstrated in the 50s and forgot.
Unfortunately the wealthy in america have managed to create a welfare system for themselves while convincing the majority of americans that welfare for the poor is nothing more than that hated word, communism.
 
Nope, I am trying to say that we should not ignore forest fires because kitchen fires are easier to successfully put out.
So we should simply ignore kitchen fires? And the house fires they lead to?
 
So we should simply ignore kitchen fires? And the house fires they lead to?

Nope, but we should have programs to fight both types of fires. If given the choice (to fight only some fires) it would make more sense to fight those that threaten vast acreage and multiple homes rather than those placing a single home at risk.
 
What is interesting about this - and history - is that Milton Freidman was wrong about so many things, but this is one point that he was right about that was ignored by the very people he was preaching it to. (You note Fulbright's dismissive tone? - god, he always was an arrogant asshole.) A negative income tax would be so much easier to administer than the myriad systems we currently have in place, and addresses, directly, the very population that needs it most.
significantly, Milton Friedman was the fellow who taught the reagan administration to curb federal spending when our economy was being devastated by runaway inflation and resulting high interest rates
but for him - and john hinckley jr - ronnie would never have served a second term
 
That could only work when they chose people without big mental health issues; otherwise they are simply to sick to manage. And I'm surprised that only 39% spent on ETOH/drugs.

When I worked at our county mental health, there were quite a few people who were so ill, they could not even show up for appointments. Tracking them down and providing transportation was a needed thing. There were quite a few who were homeless.
 
I thought you posted that the human rights commission said so?

I see nothing in there about restaurants and home delivery.

WTF are you blabbering about now?

I don't know- we were talking about homeless shelter and food for the homeless, and you started talking about restaurant delivery. So you lost me there, I apologize. Steer me straight. What did I miss there?
 
Nope, but we should have programs to fight both types of fires. If given the choice (to fight only some fires) it would make more sense to fight those that threaten vast acreage and multiple homes rather than those placing a single home at risk.
Ah, but you are missing a HUGE point.
  • More than one-quarter (27%) of reported fires occurred in homes. Even worse, four of every five (79%) fire deaths and three-quarters (73%) of all reported injuries were caused by home fires.
  • During this five-year period, US fire departments responded to an estimated average of 354,400 home structure fires per year. These fires caused an annual average of 2,620 civilian deaths; 11,220 civilian fire injuries; and $6.9 billion in direct property damage. 2,560 civilian fire deaths.
(National Fire Protection Association). Cumulatively, home fires are far more destructive than forest fires.
  • NFPA estimates there were an estimated 1,115,000 career and volunteer firefighters in the United States in 2018. Of the total number of firefighters 370,000 (33%) were career firefighters and 745,000 (67%) were volunteer firefighters.
The same is true for homelessness.
Over half a million people go homeless on a single night in the United States. Approximately 65 percent are found in homeless shelters, and the other 35 percent—just under 200,000—are found unsheltered on our streets (in places not intended for human habitation, such as sidewalks, parks, cars, or abandoned buildings). Homelessness almost always involves people facing desperate situations and extreme hardship. They must make choices among very limited options, often in the context of extreme duress, substance abuse disorders, untreated mental illness, or unintended consequences from well-intentioned policies. Improved policies that address the underlying causes of the problem and more effectively serve some of the most vulnerable members of society are needed.
And that's from the TRUMP administration. (Don't get me started on the hypocrisy of the report itself.)
 
significantly, Milton Friedman was the fellow who taught the reagan administration to curb federal spending when our economy was being devastated by runaway inflation and resulting high interest rates
but for him - and john hinckley jr - ronnie would never have served a second term
Unfortunately, as with most things in the Reagan administration, they took the wrong lessons from the process. In the end, what saved the economy (and the Reagan administration) was resistance to the Reagan administration's austerity programs. Bush, Sr. was right to call it "voodoo economics" (and why I voted for him).
 
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That could only work when they chose people without big mental health issues; otherwise they are simply to sick to manage. And I'm surprised that only 39% spent on ETOH/drugs.

When I worked at our county mental health, there were quite a few people who were so ill, they could not even show up for appointments. Tracking them down and providing transportation was a needed thing. There were quite a few who were homeless.
I have found that a disproportionate amount of homeless services goes to a relatively small portion of the homeless population. It's the old "80% of the effort goes to 20% of the problem" adage of management.
 
I have found that a disproportionate amount of homeless services goes to a relatively small portion of the homeless population. It's the old "80% of the effort goes to 20% of the problem" adage of management.

Yep, thus 80% of the problem remains largely unaddressed.
 
Yep, thus 80% of the problem remains largely unaddressed.

Many types of cancer also remain largely unsolved. Should we stop treatment for all kinds of cancer until we have figured out how to fix them all first?

And what happened to your argument that we have no business trying to fix such problems? These are problems brought about by decisions the individual made, and so they should have to deal with it themselves, right? Society should have no role in intervening ever, isn't that right?
 
Yep, thus 80% of the problem remains largely unaddressed.
But in this analogy, you are arguing that we shouldn't address the 80%.
 
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