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Intercepted phone calls prove Assad regime behind chemical attacks

the_recruit

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So many things we hear and read are White House and/or MSM lies that it is very difficult to accept "Proof" of anything without some sort of firsthand confirmation.
 

Every hour, I am more convinced that we do need to intervene. But how we are going to do that without causing some serious tension in international politics is beyond me. For that reason alone, I still favour abstaining.
 
So many things we hear and read are White House and/or MSM lies that it is very difficult to accept "Proof" of anything without some sort of firsthand confirmation.

:roll: So, explain away the evidence against a conspiracy theory with more conspiracy theory! My God, man, that's brilliant!

Intercepted call reportedly clinched US claim on Syria chemical weapons strike | Fox News

Assad-nerve gas: Foreign Policy reports that intercepted phone calls convinced Obama administration that Assad had used nerve gas.

U.S. Intercepted Calls From Syrian Army Discussing Chemical Attack

Yahoo! News UK & Ireland - Latest World News & UK News Headlines

US intelligence to justify looming missile strike against Syria - Telegraph

Syrian officials' 'panicked calls' prove culpability, US says | The Times of Israel

Oh, don't bother clicking on any of these links. They're all in on "the lie". :roll:
 
Every hour, I am more convinced that we do need to intervene. But how we are going to do that without causing some serious tension in international politics is beyond me. For that reason alone, I still favour abstaining.

As I understand it the upcoming strikes are mostly going to be punitive - they are not intended to necessarily influence the outcome of the war in Syria. The strategic aims are much broader than simply the outcome of the civil war - namely to discourage continued escalation of chemical weapon attacks by Assad (or any nation for that matter) and, probably more importantly, to send a message to Iran regarding the US's willingness to resort to military force.
 

I still favour abstaining but I understand that perfectly. My opinion can and almost certainly will almost certainly change as new information emerges. The days to come will reveal a lot to us, me thinks.
 


Aren't these the same people who determined that Iiraq was teeming with WMD's?
 
Even if this is true we still don't belong in Syria

We're not the world police. Obama needs to get congressional approval before deploying troops and using force.

If he attacks Syria without Congressional approval he should be impeached immediately
 

Lets hear it.. unedited...

else it is just another claim, just like the photos Colin Powell presented at the UN for Iraq.
 
Well isn't that convinent.

At least, our boys won't be joining this little tea party, for now.
 
What about some calls before the attack? How do calls after the attack prove authorization for the chemical attack?
 

Call me crazy, but I am a bit skeptical here. I mean:

Isn't this the same government that told us that Gaddafi was bombing his own citizens and giving them Viagra to rape women when both stories turned out to be false?


"We did not find cases of rape, which does not mean that there was no but it still poses problems. Not only we have not met the victims, but not more people who have met victims." («Il y a eu des dizaines de cas de soldats assassinés» - Libération)


The same government that told us Al Qaeda was defeated, but then we were attacked by Al Qaeda in Libya?

The same government that told us that we were not arming the Syrian rebels, when it turns out that we may have very well been training them since 2011?

On top of this, the information that the US has now was gained from Mossad. ('IDF intercepted Syrian regime chatter on chemical attack' | The Times of Israel)


Israel is not an unbiased observer in this situation. They have been aiding the rebels (Syrian rebels being treated in Israeli hospital | Jewish Telegraphic Agency)
 
On the subject of who did it, there is no conclusive evidence indicating that the Syria government is behind a chemical attack. There is numerous anecdotal evidence, such as the Syrian government being on the only one in the area capable of delivering a nerve agent via missile strike, and the intercepted communication. However, we don't know if this was a low level commander making a dumbass call, or if someone higher up in the military(read Assad) made the call.

The administrations take on this, per Carney and others, is that all military responsibility lands on the CIC, Assad. While I understand that they made that statement as justification for military action, however, they've opened a can of worms. Would Bush then be responsible for Scott Barnes? Is Obama now responsible for Bradley Manning? Really a bad move.

On the subject of military intervention, while you can say that any strike would not be taking sides in the civil war, that is extremely naive. If we are bombing Assad targets only, then we've taken a side and it will tip the balance. Stating that these strikes are simply a way for saying no-no-no, don't use chemical weapons, is a crock as well. You don't pull out your sword just to wiggle it around like a feather duster, you wield it with purpose. This current administrations foreign intervention policy revolves on public opinion, nothing else, and will bite them in the ass.
 

Even still, it's not our fight. :shrug:
 

I reserve judgment about the reports concerning the possible intercepted communications. What would be critical are the contents and the context of the communications, if they were intercepted. There would be a difference between President Assad's authorizing the use of such weapons and a military unit independently deciding on their use. Perhaps the President's forthcoming release of information will provide insight into the veracity of those reports, as well as their substance if such communications were intercepted.

The second story you cite, the CBS account, reveals:

Director of National Intelligence James Clapper led off the three-hour White House meeting with detailed analysis of the evidence about the chemical weapons attack, the disposition of victims and what the administration now believes is a near air-tight circumstantial case that the Syrian regime was behind it.

I underlined the selected text. If the Administration is talking about a circumstantial case, that would suggest that even if such communications were intercepted, they do not provide the kind of "smoking gun" that would give certainty to who was responsible for the use of such weapons. Instead, it suggests that if such communications were intercepted, there is a degree of uncertainty involved and that they are being interpreted in a fashion that adds to what is described as a circumstantial case.

Also, the UN investigation should be concluded by Saturday. It will be interesting to see if the findings of the UN team, which was on the ground, support the arguments being made in Washington, London, and Paris. If major gaps exist, that would be an argument for caution. In any case, even if one supports military action in response to a use of chemical weapons, there's no need to rush before the facts are established. Waiting won't give the party or parties responsible time to develop an approach that materially impacts possible U.S.-led military operations.
 
Very level headed summary, with the exception of the bolded sentence. Waiting does create some problems. I would imagine that Syria is relocating their CW stock to areas likely to be targeted, i.e., radar installations and similar probable target areas. This effectively removes such targets from the targeting list. The longer we wait, the more likely they'll have those targets covered. I'm not advocating for a strike at all - just pointing out that waiting does have consequences.
 

I expect that there could be some consequences, just not material ones. In the cost-benefit perspective, I believe the benefits of waiting (better information) outweigh the costs (some Syrian countermeasures). It's my understanding from news reports that Syria remains under satellite surveillance, which has some limitations, and also that the U.S. had not been planning to target the chemical weapons facilities (environmental and health risks). Instead, from what has been revealed is that air bases are among the possible targets.
 
Yeah, and I would expect Syria to move CW assets to the airfields if that's the case. It's a shell game that's always played, but we're giving too much away in advance, I think.
 
Yeah, and I would expect Syria to move CW assets to the airfields if that's the case. It's a shell game that's always played, but we're giving too much away in advance, I think.

That's a risk and I strongly agree about too much information being given away. It's self-defeating to voluntarily outline possible targets, both ruling out targets and suggesting others. That information has a more damaging impact on facilitating enemy responses.
 


Yes, you can dream on because the Russians have their own satellite imagery proving the al Qaida affiliated insurgents carried out the attacks, just as was proven of earlier attacks this year.
 


Yes, and don't forget, the Russians and the Chinese have Syria under satellite surveillance as well, just incase the US starts making **** up again as they have in the past.
 
With respect to the case for U.S. military intervention, The New York Times reports that there is no "smoking gun" and that the case will not involve declassifying reported intercepted electronic communications. The latter issue makes it difficult to for the American public to understand how strong those possible intercepted messages are. However, the suggestion that there is no smoking gun indicates that they do not provide irrefutable evidence. Instead, they fall short of that standard. How short? One won't know for sure, unless they are released.

Relevant excerpts follow:


http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/29/w...ing-test-on-data-to-back-action-on-syria.html

Typically, sources and methods of intelligence gathering are not declassified. Critical substance is different and, in this case, reported intercepted messages that might contain important substance won't be released. That outcome argues for caution. Evidence needs to be gathered. Evidence should drive the decision making. Raw emotion and a desire to "do something" should not.
 

Excellent DS.....and way to finish that off. Raw Emotion and desire to do something.....now that is what we should be saying to the French. Enough of your touchy lil feelings and that eager trigger finger.
 
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