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Inquiring minds want to know......

FiremanRyan

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haha god that picture is money.

not only does she sound like she has the IQ of a 6 year old, she looks like it too.
 

cnredd

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You make the call...:2wave:


 

aps

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It is patently untrue to say you support the troops but don't support their mission.

I totally disagree with that. It may be "patently untrue" in your mind, but not in mine. I find it a little strange for people to continue to assert that as though there is only one way to interpret this issue. Me thinks that thou dost protest too much.

Cindy is over the top, and she is making a fool out of herself.
 

Naughty Nurse

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aps said:
It is patently untrue to say you support the troops but don't support their mission.

I totally disagree with that. It may be "patently untrue" in your mind, but not in mine. I find it a little strange for people to continue to assert that as though there is only one way to interpret this issue. Me thinks that thou dost protest too much.
It's because some people sem to be capable only of towing certain lines - the GWB line, the Vatican line, or whatever. Whenever certain people are challenged to substantiate their opinions they consistently fail to do so.

I believe that the military should be non-political, and should do as ordered by their government, be that right or wrong.Therefore it is possible that military personnel do not agree with their own missions, but being professionals accept their responsibility to carry them out to the best of their abilities.

That given, it is perfectly possible for citizens to support the troops but not their mission.
 

Stinger

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aps said:
It is patently untrue to say you support the troops but don't support their mission.

I totally disagree with that. It may be "patently untrue" in your mind, but not in mine. I find it a little strange for people to continue to assert that as though there is only one way to interpret this issue. Me thinks that thou dost protest too much.
So you don't want them to win. So how DO you support them then?
 

Stinger

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Naughty Nurse said:
It's because some people sem to be capable only of towing certain lines - the GWB line, the Vatican line, or whatever.
Or the Cindy Sheena, MoveOn.org line?

Whenever certain people are challenged to substantiate their opinions they consistently fail to do so.
Like those who say they support the troops but not thier mission and then can't explain what that means.

I believe that the military should be non-political, and should do as ordered by their government, be that right or wrong.
Which is not the way it is, no soldier, sailor, sailor, airman or Marine is required to follow an unlawful order. Don't you agree that if a soldier believes an order to be unlaw they should not have to obey it?

Therefore it is possible that military personnel do not agree with their own missions, but being professionals accept their responsibility to carry them out to the best of their abilities.
Agree with or not agree with is a different subject. Sometimes they do not have the information to make that decission. For instance a sailor may think it bad tactics to sail into an area but not be aware of other forces which will be there to support the effort.

That given, it is perfectly possible for citizens to support the troops but not their mission.
I think that even if the soldier for whatever reason doesn't agree with the mission he wants to be victorious and win once the decission is made. Do you want our soldiers and military to win? If not then what exactly do you mean when you say you support the troops but not what they do.
 

Dezaad

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I personally don't see how a person can support the troops and then turn around and expect them to risk their lives in an unjustified war...
 

Naughty Nurse

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Stinger said:
Or the Cindy Sheena, MoveOn.org line?
Yes, exactly.

Stinger said:
Which is not the way it is, no soldier, sailor, sailor, airman or Marine is required to follow an unlawful order. Don't you agree that if a soldier believes an order to be unlaw they should not have to obey it?
I didn't say lawful or unlawful. I said right or wrong Not always the same thing.

Stinger said:
I think that even if the soldier for whatever reason doesn't agree with the mission he wants to be victorious and win once the decission is made. Do you want our soldiers and military to win? If not then what exactly do you mean when you say you support the troops but not what they do.
Of course he (or she) should want to be victorious - how else would you define carrying out the job to the best of their abilities?

What you seem to be asking is that once the war had atarted all Americans and all British people should decide that GWB and the odious Tony Blair had done the right thing. Sorry, I don't think they did and that won't change. However, I wish our troops well and hope that the vast majority of them will return safely.
 

Stinger

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Naughty Nurse said:
I didn't say lawful or unlawful. I said right or wrong Not always the same thing.
But ususally so, so you do agree that if a soldier, even an officer believes an order to be unlawful they are not required to carry it out?

Of course he (or she) should want to be victorious - how else would you define carrying out the job to the best of their abilities?
I asked if YOU want them to be victorious, do you want them to win?

However, I wish our troops well and hope that the vast majority of them will return safely.
How about the enemies they are fighting, do you wish them well and hope they find safety?
 

Stinger

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Dezaad said:
I personally don't see how a person can support the troops and then turn around and expect them to risk their lives in an unjustified war...
I wouldn't either, but then I also don't see how one can say they support the troops but hope they don't win either.
 

Naughty Nurse

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Stinger said:
But ususally so, so you do agree that if a soldier, even an officer believes an order to be unlawful they are not required to carry it out?
Absolutely. Although it would take a very courageous person to do that. What would be their chances of a fair hearing, do you think?

Stinger said:
I asked if YOU want them to be victorious, do you want them to win?

I'm not sure that anybody will win this one. How would you define winning in Iraq?

Stinger said:
How about the enemies they are fighting, do you wish them well and hope they find safety?
No, I don't wish terrorists well, nor hope they will find safety. But my heart goes out to all of the innocent people who have been and will be killed in Iraq. In what way have we improved things for Iraqi citizens?
 

vergiss

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Stinger said:
I wouldn't either, but then I also don't see how one can say they support the troops but hope they don't win either.
What, you consider pride to be more important than the lives of American (and allied) men and women? That's nice of you. :roll:

Winning would be preferable. However, a retreat is far better than a bloodbath.
 

Dezaad

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Well, despite the attempts of others to make anti-war folks say something they don't mean, it is possible to support the troops and be against the war.

You see, the troops are doing what they do at the behest of the people. Troops are not the ones making the decisions, so we consider them to be obeying orders, and therefore do, in fact, support what they do: Their Duty.

As for wanting them to win, I don't think a person needs to want troops to win in order support them. For instance, I would still support our troops if we invaded Canada tomorrow, but I would not want them to win. I would think what we, the people, would be doing was wrong wrong wrong.

However, in the case of Iraq, this is not an issue. It is almost unanimous. We all want them to win, if we stay. And we certainly don't want them to lose, if we stay. So......... why are you even bringing it up? Ahhhhh ======> :spin:
 

Navy Pride

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Every military person is taught to not obey an un lawful order.......The problem with the the liberal and Bush haters logic is that the order to go to war in Iraq is not unlawful, it was approved by a huge majority in the congress.....


Now can we get back to your liberals hero Cindy.....Doesn't she look nice in the picture.............:lol: Like I said, Inquiring minds want to know.......

Are Jesse and Cindy and item?
 

Dezaad

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The troops should want every American to voice their opinion of the war. It is, after all, presumably the reason they are fighting: Freedom.
 

Dezaad

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Navy Pride said:
Every military person is taught to not obey an un lawful order.......The problem with the the liberal and Bush haters logic is that the order to go to war in Iraq is not unlawful, it was approved by a huge majority in the congress.....
Hardly any liberal thinks the soldiers are doing in Iraq is obeying unlawful orders. Only the ones as wacked out on the left as you are on the right believe such illogical things. Even if the war in Iraq were to be considered an unlawful war, the troops would not be unlawful obeying the order to go there. You can derive that from my former post.

If you want to stop talking about this subject, then do so.
 
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Stinger

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stinger
I wouldn't either, but then I also don't see how one can say they support the troops but hope they don't win either.



vergiss said:
What, you consider pride to be more important than the lives of American (and allied) men and women? That's nice of you. :roll:
You think it only a matter of pride? That's really amazing.

Winning would be preferable. However, a retreat is far better than a bloodbath.
Well which is it, you seem to be having a hard time figuring out your position. Why would winning be preferable, your pride? And if not then please explain what "supporting the troops" means if you don't support thier victory.
 

Stinger

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Dezaad said:
Well, despite the attempts of others to make anti-war folks say something they don't mean, it is possible to support the troops and be against the war.
Well I don't know who you are talking about. I for one want and urge you to say EXACTLY what you mean. You and others just seem to have trouble doing so.

You see, the troops are doing what they do at the behest of the people. Troops are not the ones making the decisions, so we consider them to be obeying orders, and therefore do, in fact, support what they do: Their Duty.
But not if it is unlawful and polls show without a doubt that the troops support what we are doing over there so your arguement is falicious.

As for wanting them to win, I don't think a person needs to want troops to win in order support them.
So you don't want them to win you prefer our enemies to win?

For instance, I would still support our troops if we invaded Canada tomorrow,
Red Herring alert. Phoney arguement.

However, in the case of Iraq, this is not an issue. It is almost unanimous. We all want them to win, if we stay. And we certainly don't want them to lose, if we stay. So......... why are you even bringing it up? Ahhhhh ======>
Well if we leave now we lose. We only win if we stay. So why do you support those who want us to leave now?

I note you are now trying to jump through hoops and qualifiers in order to maintain your position.
 

vergiss

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Oy vey. Winning would be preferable because no one wants the Coalition to lose. Duh. I support the victory, just not the war. Do you honestly think I'm sitting here thinking "Go terrorists, go!"? :lol: Keep dreaming.

On the other hand, I don't want our troops to be slaughtered in a worst-case scenario, and I'm only talking worst-case. How can you say you support the troops if you don't care how many of them needlessly die when victory isn't going to happen and retreat is the best course of action?

Remember Vietnam? Generally, you're supposed to learn from past mistakes.

I note we are easily maintaining our position and you're just repeating the same crap in the remote hope of finding a weakness.
 
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Stinger

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Dezaad said:
Hardly any liberal thinks the soldiers are doing in Iraq is obeying unlawful orders.
If the war is unlawful, as the leftist claim, then any orders to carry it out would be unlawful.

Only the ones as wacked out on the left as you are on the right believe such illogical things.
That's not illogical. However saying the war is unlawful and you do not support unlawful actions and then saying that you support the people carrying out the unlawful actions IS illogical.

Even if the war in Iraq were to be considered an unlawful war, the troops would not be unlawful obeying the order to go there.
Yes they would.
 

vergiss

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Stinger? You're putting words in people's mouths now.
 

Stinger

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stinger
But ususally so, so you do agree that if a soldier, even an officer believes an order to be unlawful they are not required to carry it out?


Naughty Nurse said:
Absolutely. Although it would take a very courageous person to do that. What would be their chances of a fair hearing, do you think?
Perhaps but not necessarily.

Stinger said:
I asked if YOU want them to be victorious, do you want them to win?
I'm not sure that anybody will win this one.
Not what I asked. Try again. And the goals that define winning have been throughly discussed and expressed so don't try that dodge again.

No, I don't wish terrorists well, nor hope they will find safety.
Then why don't you support what we are doing to bring them illwill and not allow them safety, IOW kill them?

But my heart goes out to all of the innocent people who have been and will be killed in Iraq.
I have no doubt everyone feels that way including the Iraqi's themselves.

In what way have we improved things for Iraqi citizens?
The ability to create a government based on self-determination and open elections for one.
Basic freedoms for another
Elimination of the despot, murderous dictator and his murderous vile secret police that committed mass murders for another.
The elimination of the threat that their former ruler who take them into another war invading their neighbors once again and commit further authorcities in their name.

Do you really have to ask such self-evident questions?
 

Stinger

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vergiss said:
Stinger? You're putting words in people's mouths now.
Not at all I'm urging them to speak their own and giving them every opportunity. What is apparent is that some are having a conflict in thier position exposed.
 
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