Incredible Statement by 6 Year Old Shooter

[EMNofSeattle]

This guy wasn't violating any laws either. Would it be OK if he had shot the guy with an AR after he was attacked?

I don’t know what kind of weird link this is but I don’t care enough to login to see it

 

[hecatmoggie]

A loaded gun lying around on a table for a 6 year old to grab is not 'secured.'

as i have stated, much more information was available since last I read on this and yes, she's guilty of drugs, illegal guns etc

but that 6 year old kid was a product of his culture/environment of drugs and violence too - shouldn't be overlooked IMO

 

[Rucker61]

I would be Ok with common sense measures most Americans, even most gun owners, want.

Most Americans support these 4 types of gun legislation, poll says

The public wants Congress to take action and control gun violence, according to the latest PBS NewsHour, NPR and Marist poll.

www.pbs.org

Most Gun Owners Support Stricter Laws—Even NRA Members

Even NRA members

time.com

1. Universal Background Checks;

In the 2010 report "Summary of Select Firearms Violence Prevention Strategies" the DOJ noted that “universal” background checks can’t be effective without a reduction in the illegal sources of guns to criminals and can’t be enforced without comprehensive firearm registration.

This BJS study shows us where criminals get their guns. About 23% come from families and straw purchases. 43% come from the black market, defined as Illegal sources of firearms that include markets for stolen goods, middlemen for stolen goods, criminals or criminal enterprises, or individuals or groups involved in sales of illegal drugs.6.4% come from theft. 11.5% were found at the scene of a crime or brought to the crime by another criminal. 0.8% came from gun shows. There's no percentage shown for sales from good guys to bad guys.

https://bjs.ojp.gov/content/pub/pdf/suficspi16.pdf

What does a UBC do to prevent criminals from getting guns?

"https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3154243/"

"The simultaneous implementation of CBC (comprehensive background checks, aka UBC) and MVP (misdemeanor violence policy) policies was not associated with a net change in the firearm homicide rate over the ensuing 10 years in California. The decrease in firearm suicides in California was similar to the decrease in nonfirearm suicides in that state. Results were robust across multiple model specifications and methods."

Garen Wintemute, 2019

California's comprehensive background check and misdemeanor violence prohibition policies and firearm mortality

In 1991, California implemented a law that mandated a background check for all firearm purchases with limited exceptions (comprehensive background che…

www.sciencedirect.com

In S.494, the current "universal" background check bill, the law states:
Give a gun to your brother, no background check needed.
Loan a gun to your brother, no background check needed.
Sell a gun to your bother, it's a crime if there isn't a background check.
Can you point out the "common sense" part?

Under S.494, the current "universal" background check bill, the law state that as long as someone has a hunting or fishing license, and the loaner has no reason to suspect that the loanee is a prohibited person, the loaner can loan any firearm to that loanee without a background check for any length of time.
Can you point out the "common sense" part?

2. National Red Flag law: as written, most of these ignore due process and also ignore all other methods of suicide and homicide.

"“Red flag” laws, or “extreme risk protection orders”, have been enacted in several states. While the idea for these laws is reasonable, some statutes are not. They destroy due process of law, endanger law enforcement and the public, and can be handy tools for stalkers and abusers to disarm their innocent victims. Many order are improperly issued against innocent people.

The Conference of Chief Justices asked the Uniform Law Commissioners to draft a national model red flag law, but the Giffords organization blocked the effort — lest it offer an alternative to the extreme and reckless system being pushed by Giffords and related groups, most notably the Bloomberg entities."

Red Flag Laws: Proceed with Caution

“Red flag” laws, or “extreme risk protection orders”, have been enacted in several states. While the idea for these laws is reasonable, some statutes are not. T

papers.ssrn.com

3. Require a license before gun purchase

Unconstitutional under Murdock v Pennsylvania, Watchtower v Village of Stratton and NYSR&PA v Bruen (you'll see this last one again).

4. Ban the sale of high capacity magazines

Unconstitutional under NYSR&PA v Bruen.

"Duncan v. Bonta: Petition for a writ of certiorari granted, judgment vacated, and case remanded to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 9th Circuit for further consideration in light of New York State Rifle & Pistol Association v. Bruen.

5. Ban the sale of semiautomatic weapons (which isn't actually what's being requested):

Unconstitutional under NYSR&PA v Bruen

Miller v Bonta, Petitioner Granted cert, prior decision Vacated, prior decision Remanded to lower court for review under Bruen.
Bianchi v Frosh, Petitioner Granted cert, prior decision Vacated, prior decision Remanded to lower court for review under Bruen.

We keep seeing this claim about NRA members but there's never any proof. Your own link said, "Among those who don’t own guns, 79 percent support a firearms-purchase database, but only half of gun owners back such a proposal. The level of support drops to 31 percent among NRA members" and "NRA members, in particular, strongly opposed such a registry. Among members of the group, 79 percent expressed concern that a regulation such as increased background checks or a firearms purchase registry could be used to track the activities of Americans.".

 

[Rucker61]

A loaded gun lying around on a table for a 6 year old to grab is not 'secured.'

There's not one person here claiming this.

 

[Geoist]

There's not one person here claiming this.

Except the person I responded to did...

 

[Rucker61]

Except the person I responded to did...

What post?

 

[Geoist]

What post?

The one that was in my post you responded to. Stealthcat's:

from what I read, it was legally purchased and secured (which is what anti-gunners demand)

 

[justabubba]

If they were not going to require him to attend a school specializing in kids with behavioral issues and no longer require a parent or guardian to sit with him to limit his disruption then at a minimum he should have been in a 1 on 1 study progra

is that even an option for each student to have their own, personal teacher?

back in the day, that is how the elite educated their children ... because there were no other options

so, i am trying to figure out how your approach would work. who would start the ball rolling on the 1 to 1 schooling, the parents or the school, and in what way would they initiate such an exclusive education for the kid? also, what criteria would be imposed, to make sure any child who fit the criteria could have their own teacer and to prevent those who don't meet it from having that costly 1 on 1 teacher : student relationship?

 

[justabubba]

See DC v Heller. It's unconstitutional to require that a gun be locked up in such a manner that it's not immediately available for self-defense.

The Second Amendment to the United States Constitution guarantees the right of the people to keep and bear arms. However, the Supreme Court has held that this right is not absolute and that the government can regulate firearms in certain ways. For example, the government can prohibit felons and the mentally ill from owning guns, and it can require background checks for gun purchases.

In the case of safe storage laws, the courts have generally held that they do not violate the Second Amendment. In 2010, the Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court upheld a state law that required gun owners to keep their guns locked up when not in use. The court found that the law was a reasonable regulation that served to protect public safety.

 

[Spock]

In a gun culture that glorifies guns and swims in them, you can't be left wondering how a toddler or 6-year-old end up with them.

Exactly. The easy access to firearms has made the USA exceptionally dangerous. We have more firearm deaths than motor vehicle deaths most years now and more guns than people in the country.
The pro-gun faction has contributed to the ease of access by all the 2nd Amendment rhetoric and lots of lobbying by firearm manufacturers.
All firearms should be federally regulated but the inconvenience is just too much to ask from gun nuts.

 

[Spock]

Statistically virtually zero.

How many unsecured firearms are used unlawfully or for self-harm?
It really is time for the pro-gun mob to step up and take responsibility for the proliferation of firearms and the consequent firearm death and injury epidemic.

 

[RF667799]

Exactly. The easy access to firearms has made the USA exceptionally dangerous. We have more firearm deaths than motor vehicle deaths most years now and more guns than people in the country.
The pro-gun faction has contributed to the ease of access by all the 2nd Amendment rhetoric and lots of lobbying by firearm manufacturers.
All firearms should be federally regulated but the inconvenience is just too much to ask from gun nuts.

You'll be pleased to know that firearms are federally regulated, despite the gun nuts who claim they aren't.

Also, most "gun deaths" are deliberate. There was absolutely an intention of someone dying. Traffic fatalities are a different matter. Even though most people don't intend to for themselves or others to die in a motor vehicle accident, tens of thousands do every year. Seems like motor vehicles are inherently more dangerous than guns.

 

[Spock]

1. Universal Background Checks;

In the 2010 report "Summary of Select Firearms Violence Prevention Strategies" the DOJ noted that “universal” background checks can’t be effective without a reduction in the illegal sources of guns to criminals and can’t be enforced without comprehensive firearm registration.

This BJS study shows us where criminals get their guns. About 23% come from families and straw purchases. 43% come from the black market, defined as Illegal sources of firearms that include markets for stolen goods, middlemen for stolen goods, criminals or criminal enterprises, or individuals or groups involved in sales of illegal drugs.6.4% come from theft. 11.5% were found at the scene of a crime or brought to the crime by another criminal. 0.8% came from gun shows. There's no percentage shown for sales from good guys to bad guys.

https://bjs.ojp.gov/content/pub/pdf/suficspi16.pdf

What does a UBC do to prevent criminals from getting guns?

"https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3154243/"

"The simultaneous implementation of CBC (comprehensive background checks, aka UBC) and MVP (misdemeanor violence policy) policies was not associated with a net change in the firearm homicide rate over the ensuing 10 years in California. The decrease in firearm suicides in California was similar to the decrease in nonfirearm suicides in that state. Results were robust across multiple model specifications and methods."

Garen Wintemute, 2019

California's comprehensive background check and misdemeanor violence prohibition policies and firearm mortality

In 1991, California implemented a law that mandated a background check for all firearm purchases with limited exceptions (comprehensive background che…

www.sciencedirect.com

In S.494, the current "universal" background check bill, the law states:
Give a gun to your brother, no background check needed.
Loan a gun to your brother, no background check needed.
Sell a gun to your bother, it's a crime if there isn't a background check.
Can you point out the "common sense" part?

Under S.494, the current "universal" background check bill, the law state that as long as someone has a hunting or fishing license, and the loaner has no reason to suspect that the loanee is a prohibited person, the loaner can loan any firearm to that loanee without a background check for any length of time.
Can you point out the "common sense" part?

2. National Red Flag law: as written, most of these ignore due process and also ignore all other methods of suicide and homicide.

"“Red flag” laws, or “extreme risk protection orders”, have been enacted in several states. While the idea for these laws is reasonable, some statutes are not. They destroy due process of law, endanger law enforcement and the public, and can be handy tools for stalkers and abusers to disarm their innocent victims. Many order are improperly issued against innocent people.

The Conference of Chief Justices asked the Uniform Law Commissioners to draft a national model red flag law, but the Giffords organization blocked the effort — lest it offer an alternative to the extreme and reckless system being pushed by Giffords and related groups, most notably the Bloomberg entities."

Red Flag Laws: Proceed with Caution

“Red flag” laws, or “extreme risk protection orders”, have been enacted in several states. While the idea for these laws is reasonable, some statutes are not. T

papers.ssrn.com

3. Require a license before gun purchase

Unconstitutional under Murdock v Pennsylvania, Watchtower v Village of Stratton and NYSR&PA v Bruen (you'll see this last one again).

4. Ban the sale of high capacity magazines

Unconstitutional under NYSR&PA v Bruen.

"Duncan v. Bonta: Petition for a writ of certiorari granted, judgment vacated, and case remanded to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 9th Circuit for further consideration in light of New York State Rifle & Pistol Association v. Bruen.

5. Ban the sale of semiautomatic weapons (which isn't actually what's being requested):

Unconstitutional under NYSR&PA v Bruen

Miller v Bonta, Petitioner Granted cert, prior decision Vacated, prior decision Remanded to lower court for review under Bruen.
Bianchi v Frosh, Petitioner Granted cert, prior decision Vacated, prior decision Remanded to lower court for review under Bruen.

We keep seeing this claim about NRA members but there's never any proof. Your own link said, "Among those who don’t own guns, 79 percent support a firearms-purchase database, but only half of gun owners back such a proposal. The level of support drops to 31 percent among NRA members" and "NRA members, in particular, strongly opposed such a registry. Among members of the group, 79 percent expressed concern that a regulation such as increased background checks or a firearms purchase registry could be used to track the activities of Americans.".

Past time to repeal 2A and stop this nonsense of "constitutionality" obstructing actual effective legislation to reign in the proliferation of firearm deaths.

 

[justabubba]

Exactly. The easy access to firearms has made the USA exceptionally dangerous. We have more firearm deaths than motor vehicle deaths most years now and more guns than people in the country.
The pro-gun faction has contributed to the ease of access by all the 2nd Amendment rhetoric and lots of lobbying by firearm manufacturers.
All firearms should be federally regulated but the inconvenience is just too much to ask from gun nuts.

how would this be accomplished?

 

[justabubba]

Past time to repeal 2A and stop this nonsense of "constitutionality" obstructing actual effective legislation to reign in the proliferation of firearm deaths.

ok. where are we on the efforts to repeal 2A?

 

[Spock]

You'll be pleased to know that firearms are federally regulated, despite the gun nuts who claim they aren't.

Also, most "gun deaths" are deliberate. There was absolutely an intention of someone dying. Traffic fatalities are a different matter. Even though most people don't intend to for themselves or others to die in a motor vehicle accident, tens of thousands do every year. Seems like motor vehicles are inherently more dangerous than guns.

No. Only certain firearms are federally regulated. Do your homework.
The access to firearms and promotion of "self-defense" myths have become the reason that we have exceptionally high firearm deaths.

 

[Spock]

how would this be accomplished?

Easy. Expand the list of firearms that are federally subject to license, transport restrictions, and background checks.

 

[RF667799]

How many unsecured firearms are used unlawfully or for self-harm?
It really is time for the pro-gun mob to step up and take responsibility for the proliferation of firearms and the consequent firearm death and injury epidemic.

I often propose that criminal background checks be required to possess guns or motor vehicles. Few of the anti-gun nuts will support this. Would you support such an idea, or would it be too inconvenient?

Even fewer support the idea I often propose when someone tries to lay blame for homicide deaths at the feet of peaceful citizens. That being that we might virtually eliminate traffic fatalities by reducing the speeds motor vehicles can attain to 25 mph, and requiring Nascar safety gear for all occupants.

 

[RF667799]

No. Only certain firearms are federally regulated. Do your homework.
The access to firearms and promotion of "self-defense" myths have become the reason that we have exceptionally high firearm deaths.

Which firearms are not federally regulated?

 

[Chillfolks]

is that even an option for each student to have their own, personal teacher?

back in the day, that is how the elite educated their children ... because there were no other options

so, i am trying to figure out how your approach would work. who would start the ball rolling on the 1 to 1 schooling, the parents or the school, and in what way would they initiate such an exclusive education for the kid? also, what criteria would be imposed, to make sure any child who fit the criteria could have their own teacer and to prevent those who don't meet it from having that costly 1 on 1 teacher : student relationship?

This was not a normal circumstance and yes if the child is a problem and disruptive to other students I know for a fact that the NN schools has provided a one on one teacher. How you came up with something other than this is a disciplinary action is on you no one else.

 

[justabubba]

This was not a normal circumstance and yes if the child is a problem and disruptive to other students I know for a fact that the NN schools has provided a one on one teacher. How you came up with something other than this is a disciplinary action is on you no one else.

you did not address how the 1:1 teacher to student ratio would work
what would be the established baseline for a student to receive a private teacher
who, parent or school, would be the party to initiate the process to determine whether the student met the baseline requirements to enjoy a 1:1 private teacher

all you have presented is a desirable outcome, independent of a real-world determination of its credibility and possibility

so, world peace, the end of hunger, no one being without, everyone having equal opportunity, all people treating others as they would want to be treated, doctors and medicine for everyone who needs them, everyone brush after every meal, etc, etc
^ that could settle most of the world's problems. no need to delve deeper in a DP discussion

this works so well, i think i may need to adopt your problem-solving technique

 

[Chillfolks]

you did not address how the 1:1 teacher to student ratio would work
what would be the established baseline for a student to receive a private teacher
who, parent or school, would be the party to initiate the process to determine whether the student met the baseline requirements to enjoy a 1:1 private teacher

all you have presented is a desirable outcome, independent of a real-world determination of its credibility and possibility

so, world peace, the end of hunger, no one being without, everyone having equal opportunity, all people treating others as they would want to be treated, doctors and medicine for everyone who needs them, everyone brush after every meal, etc, etc
^ that could settle most of the world's problems. no need to delve deeper in a DP discussion

this works so well, i think i may need to adopt your problem-solving technique

I see common sense is one of the ones you lack. My biggest problem was overestimating your ability to think rationally and use connect clues to understand what is being discussed. If you have to attend class because you produced a child that is a constant disruption then that’s a good candidate for 1 on 1

 

[justabubba]

I see common sense is one of the ones you lack. My biggest problem was overestimating your ability to think rationally and use connect clues to understand what is being discussed. If you have to attend class because you produced a child that is a constant disruption then that’s a good candidate for 1 on 1

then i take it you are again without answers to the twice-submitted questions about how your proposed solution would work

 

[Chillfolks]

then i take it you are again without answers to the twice-submitted questions about how your proposed solution would work

How it would work is a student and a teacher sit down one on one and conduct schoolwork

 

[hecatmoggie]

The easy access to firearms has made the USA exceptionally dangerous.

absolutely false

dangerous people have made parts of the USA dangerous - inanimate objects do NOT make people violent or dangerous

good gawd