In your opinion is Ashli Babbit a traitor or a hero?

[j brown's body]

She's a hero much as Hitler turned Herbert Norkus into a hero.

Herbert Norkus - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[j brown's body]

Very similar to what you see BLM do to criminals.

The easy answer is that Babbit is neither hero or traitor.

We have a presumption of innocence in this country. I know, it's easy to forget when it comes to black men.

 

[independentusa]

Well, you're wrong.

Police officers are authorized to use deadly force when they believe it is warranted. It's not like they have the time to do all of the things you'd like them to be able to do in a perfect world. When they feel the need to act any hesitation could prove fatal.

In this case, the cop was looking at an angry, riotous mob, who were screaming about hanging the Vice President, trying to break into an otherwise secure area within the Capitol. What should he have done? Penned a letter to his boss requesting guidance? No, of course not. as soon as the perimeter he was protecting was broken (the glass in the door), he had to act. I've watched that video 100 times, and every single time I've come away with the same conclusion: Babbit acted stupidly and the cop act appropriately...

Fo once, I agree with you on both accounts. The cop did what he had to do to stop a crazy mob from getting to our congress people.

 

[notquiteright]

You're talking about personal convictions, not adherence to an oath. Hell, I know plenty of folks who've never served in uniform, but they would take up arms to defend this country if they had to.

To say "the oath does not expire" is simply incorrect. It expires at your EAOS. After that, you cannot be compelled to do anything under that oath. Not a single ****ing thing. That's 100% personal conviction. It has nothing to do with an oath of enlistment...

I didn't say legally bound to the flag till death do you rot....

I said I've yet to meet any Vet who didn't feel the oath was personal and didn't expire- you say as much yourself...

YET TO MEET THE VET. I'm not saying they should be courts marshalled, but I'm not so sure any vet would shrug at a vet turning against the Constitution. Well none who weren't attacking our Democracy and elected officials on 1/6...

 

[Cope]

We have a presumption of innocence in this country. I know, it's easy to forget when it comes to black men.

Yes, we do. How is that relevant here?

 

[americanwoman]

An unarmed assassin. How does that work?

Are you saying cops now need to take the time to assess the danger and if they are unarmed or not?

Re: Pittsburgh protesters shut down highway for hours over fatal police shooting of unarmed teen Ant



The above needs to be repeated. When a police officer is doing his job, he doesn't have the time to consider if the perp is stupid.

 

[CharisRose]

You don't have to intend to do the actual murdering to be an accessory to murder. Which is a crime.

The point of my post was simply concerning the woman being labeled an assassin. She did not behave like an assassin.

 

[CharisRose]

Again, if she had gained entry many others in the mob would have followed and had direct access to the Congress people being escorted not 30 feet away to safety. What would the mob with a mob's mentality do if they had caught some of the congress people or even their staff?

The point of my post was simply concerning the woman being labeled an assassin. She did not behave like an assassin.

 

[JMB802]

The point of my post was simply concerning the woman being labeled an assassin. She did not behave like an assassin.

Do you think that considering the circumstances and Babbitt's behavior at the time of her death that her shooting was justified?

 

[switt]

Not an unarmed military veteran

After being warned, I suppose she should have been invited in, frisked, and asked about her military service.

 

[independentusa]

The point of my post was simply concerning the woman being labeled an assassin. She did not behave like an assassin.

We do not know what she would have done if she and the others in the mob would have captured some of the congress people that were being escorted to safety just beyond the doors where the person had broken out the glass and she was climbing through. Would they have made them hostages or even hung them as some in the crowd were chanting? Mob mentality does things to people making them do things they would never do alone. So you can not say with certainty what she was at that time.

 

[CharisRose]

You're right, they should have asked "before you break into this protected space in the US capitol building as part of this mob, do you have a weapon?".

Sorry but the only point of my post was the woman was labeled an assassin and she clearly did not fit the definition of an assassin.

She had no weapon in her hand. So, far I have no information that there was a weapon in her backpack. I’m pretty sure the authorities checked the backpack for a weapon after the fact. If, they found a weapon after the fact… she still did not behave like an assassin based on the definition I provided.

 

[trixare4kids]

Are you saying cops now need to take the time to assess the danger and if they are unarmed or not?

I said what I said. Your question is spin.

 

[trixare4kids]

Sorry but the only point of my post was the woman was labeled an assassin and she clearly did not fit the definition of an assassin.

She had no weapon in her hand. So, far I have no information that there was a weapon in her backpack. I’m pretty sure the authorities checked the backpack for a weapon after the fact. If, they found a weapon after the fact… she still did not behave like an assassin based on the definition I provided.

I don't know why some are having such a hard time understanding this.

 

[Aunt Antifa]

Are you saying cops now need to take the time to assess the danger and if they are unarmed or not?

It would be the first time she’s argued that. It’s remarkable how the same folks that said Jacob Black needed to be shot in the back 7 times but Ashli Babbitt didn’t deserve just the one bullet.

 

[Big Steve]

I didn't say legally bound to the flag till death do you rot....

I said I've yet to meet any Vet who didn't feel the oath was personal and didn't expire- you say as much yourself...

YET TO MEET THE VET. I'm not saying they should be courts marshalled, but I'm not so sure any vet would shrug at a vet turning against the Constitution. Well none who weren't attacking our Democracy and elected officials on 1/6...

This is from the OP:

"My opinion is that this woman took an oath to up hold the constitution and laws of the United States and that oath does not end when you leave the military."

That statement is factually incorrect...

 

[bearpoker]

I am not arguing that the police were wrong, I am arguing that it is not their decision to make unilaterally.

You think they should have to get on the phone and call their supervisor when a violent mob is at the door? Really? I'm telling you right now. When they come at me with flagpoles and the intent to beat and stomp my ass into the ground, it's not my phone that I'm gonna reach for.

 

[Big Steve]

It would be the first time she’s argued that. It’s remarkable how the same folks that said Jacob Black needed to be shot in the back 7 times but Ashli Babbitt didn’t deserve just the one bullet.

I believe they both acted in a manner which compelled someone to believe that the use of deadly force was appropriate...

 

[beefheart]

Your refusal to answer is noted.

I answered your stupid loaded question, and oh look...suspended....

 

[Aunt Antifa]

I believe they both acted in a manner which compelled someone to believe that the use of deadly force was appropriate...

I’m sure you see a Black man walking away from a cop as being the same as a white terrorist trying to break into the Capitol. However, the folks I’m referring to have been pretty vocal about how quick on the trigger cops should be, except when it comes to white terrorists.

 

[ultmd]

The right wing media is making Ashli Babbit into a hero and a martyr. Typical lies I have heard are that she was trying to escape the building by climbing out a window and that the policeman shoot her in the head for no reason.. Well, first, she was trying to get into the hall where just a few feet away they were ushering congressmen away from the rioters who like Babbit were trying to get to the congressmen to take them hostage, to hang them, we will never know as the policeman shot the first one through the broken window and the rest of them then just ran. And the policeman did not shoot her in the head, but in the side. My opinion is that this woman took an oath to up hold the constitution and laws of the United States and that oath does not end when you leave the military. In entering the Capital to stop the congress from doing its constitutional duty and following the laws of our country, she violated that oath and thus gave up hr right to expect she would be allowed to attack our capital with impunity. She was not a martyr or a hero, she was a seditionist and paid the price for her actions. What is your opinion?

Sedition is close to treason, but not quite.

Babbit was certainly guilty of Sedition.. Any American who considers her a martyr is a confused, or evil, American.

 

[Peter King]

The right wing media is making Ashli Babbit into a hero and a martyr. Typical lies I have heard are that she was trying to escape the building by climbing out a window and that the policeman shoot her in the head for no reason.. Well, first, she was trying to get into the hall where just a few feet away they were ushering congressmen away from the rioters who like Babbit were trying to get to the congressmen to take them hostage, to hang them, we will never know as the policeman shot the first one through the broken window and the rest of them then just ran. And the policeman did not shoot her in the head, but in the side. My opinion is that this woman took an oath to up hold the constitution and laws of the United States and that oath does not end when you leave the military. In entering the Capital to stop the congress from doing its constitutional duty and following the laws of our country, she violated that oath and thus gave up hr right to expect she would be allowed to attack our capital with impunity. She was not a martyr or a hero, she was a seditionist and paid the price for her actions. What is your opinion?

I think she is not a traitor, she was a fool and an invader/violent offender who had very anti-democratic tendencies.

 

[Aunt Antifa]

This is from the OP:

"My opinion is that this woman took an oath to up hold the constitution and laws of the United States and that oath does not end when you leave the military."

That statement is factually incorrect...

I wonder what the word “opinion” means there. I wonder.

 

[CharisRose]

Do you think that considering the circumstances and Babbitt's behavior at the time of her death that her shooting was justified?

I have no clue. Not enough information released concerning this particular incident. I have an opinion based on a video I watched. I have more questions than answers. I suspect the answers I seek may never see the light of day. I will patiently wait to see if my suspicions are based on reality.

 

[JMB802]

I have no clue. Not enough information released concerning this particular incident. I have an opinion based on a video I watched. I have more questions than answers. I suspect the answers I seek may never see the light of day. I will patiently wait to see if my suspicions are based on reality.

What are your questions specifically about Babbitt's shooting?