• Please read the Announcement concerning missing posts from 10/8/25-10/15/25.
  • This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

If We Are Going to "Do Something," Why Not Do it Right?

Captain Adverse

Captain Adverse

Classical Liberal Sage
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 22, 2013
Messages
22,728
Reaction score
33,085
Location
Mid-West USA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
If we think we need to do something about whatever issue needs attention, why aren't we trying to do it right?

I cite two examples. Immigration and the Border Wall; National Healthcare.

Just about everyone other than the Progressive-Left (and anyone further Left then they are) recognizes a problem with Illegal Immigration, and the push to allow mass migration into our nation. Yet any time any real drive or effort seems to be mentioned, all the nay-sayers come out, and the moderates want to compromise, and we end up with half-assed solutions which are no solutions at all.

Case in point is the idea of building a real border wall along our southern border, the place where the greatest number of illegal aliens typically arrive along.

Naysayers point to things like how the current "walls" don't work, how there is an easy work-around for illegals...those big "holes" along our seacoasts, and then cry 'inhumanity" as an emotional appeal for the mere idea of preventing people from surging into the "Land of the Free."

IMO, if we did it right, we could have an effective bar to a major source of both illegal drugs and illegal human trafficking if we did invest in a REAL wall along that border.

That would require a solid wall construction both above and below ground, advanced sensors, and increased border agents assigned (like the old Romans along Hadrian's Wall) to specific strategically placed posts along the wall who would be held absolutely responsible for any digging, climbing, cutting, etc. along their assigned sectors.

As for the "sea routes?" That is what we have the Coast Guard for, and beefing up land-based and sea-seeded sensors as well as personnel assigned patrols would cover that avenue of approach.

But no, we just declare "that won't work because..." and let the problems continue. :roll:

The same holds true for Healthcare.

If we REALLY want a national healthcare system then stop screwing around. Create a national single-payer plan merging with Medicare/Medicaid and SS Disability. Let us ALL pay one taxed fee under FICA.

Then establish regulations for the prices of procedures, medicines, and other treatments and support. We set up Federal regulations under the Commerce Clause for licensing of Medical practitioners, hospitals, and pharmaceutical companies to accept these requirements. Voila! National Healthcare in a nutshell... moving on.

Nope, instead we try to keep in "Free Market," forgetting that the Free Market is profit-based and if there is no profit, there is no desire to participate. So profit will drive Big Insurance, the AMA, and Big Pharma under any such plan regardless of how nice they sound.

Sooo, why do we insist on doing things half-assed and creating more problems?
 
You get my vote, Captain. Not sure about the answer to the OP question, but I think it probably relates to the old saying -- Too many chefs spoil the stew.
 
The biggest influx of illegal immigrants is to students overstaying their visas. Our southern border is a problem because criminals, drugs, and the dregs of society are coming in from the southern border. The people who are overstaying their education visas are not generally the trouble-making types.
 
Captain Adverse said:
If we think we need to do something about whatever issue needs attention, why aren't we trying to do it right?

I cite two examples. Immigration and the Border Wall; National Healthcare.

Just about everyone other than the Progressive-Left (and anyone further Left then they are) recognizes a problem with Illegal Immigration, and the push to allow mass migration into our nation. Yet any time any real drive or effort seems to be mentioned, all the nay-sayers come out, and the moderates want to compromise, and we end up with half-assed solutions which are no solutions at all.

Case in point is the idea of building a real border wall along our southern border, the place where the greatest number of illegal aliens typically arrive along.

Naysayers point to things like how the current "walls" don't work, how there is an easy work-around for illegals...those big "holes" along our seacoasts, and then cry 'inhumanity" as an emotional appeal for the mere idea of preventing people from surging into the "Land of the Free."

IMO, if we did it right, we could have an effective bar to a major source of both illegal drugs and illegal human trafficking if we did invest in a REAL wall along that border.

That would require a solid wall construction both above and below ground, advanced sensors, and increased border agents assigned (like the old Romans along Hadrian's Wall) to specific strategically placed posts along the wall who would be held absolutely responsible for any digging, climbing, cutting, etc. along their assigned sectors.

As for the "sea routes?" That is what we have the Coast Guard for, and beefing up land-based and sea-seeded sensors as well as personnel assigned patrols would cover that avenue of approach.

But no, we just declare "that won't work because..." and let the problems continue. :roll:

The same holds true for Healthcare.

If we REALLY want a national healthcare system then stop screwing around. Create a national single-payer plan merging with Medicare/Medicaid and SS Disability. Let us ALL pay one taxed fee under FICA.

Then establish regulations for the prices of procedures, medicines, and other treatments and support. We set up Federal regulations under the Commerce Clause for licensing of Medical practitioners, hospitals, and pharmaceutical companies to accept these requirements. Voila! National Healthcare in a nutshell... moving on.

Nope, instead we try to keep in "Free Market," forgetting that the Free Market is profit-based and if there is no profit, there is no desire to participate. So profit will drive Big Insurance, the AMA, and Big Pharma under any such plan regardless of how nice they sound.

Sooo, why do we insist on doing things half-assed and creating more problems?
Click to expand...


The first step to doing things right is understanding what's going on and you don't
 
katzgar said:
The first step to doing things right is understanding what's going on and you don't
Click to expand...

Could you make your criticism a bit more constructive?
 
The reason we don't address the illegal immigrant problem is that it has never really been seen as a problem to those with the power or influence to address it. To the contrary, it was seen as a way to get cheap controllable labor from people who had no rights. I'm not sure when it became a "problem" but it is mostly used as a distraction from the real problem. The utter corruption of American society on every level. "Blame it on the illegals" is the battle cry of corrupt Americans who want to distract from their complicity.
 
Captain Adverse said:
If we think we need to do something about whatever issue needs attention, why aren't we trying to do it right?

I cite two examples. Immigration and the Border Wall; National Healthcare.

Just about everyone other than the Progressive-Left (and anyone further Left then they are) recognizes a problem with Illegal Immigration, and the push to allow mass migration into our nation. Yet any time any real drive or effort seems to be mentioned, all the nay-sayers come out, and the moderates want to compromise, and we end up with half-assed solutions which are no solutions at all.

Case in point is the idea of building a real border wall along our southern border, the place where the greatest number of illegal aliens typically arrive along.

Naysayers point to things like how the current "walls" don't work, how there is an easy work-around for illegals...those big "holes" along our seacoasts, and then cry 'inhumanity" as an emotional appeal for the mere idea of preventing people from surging into the "Land of the Free."

IMO, if we did it right, we could have an effective bar to a major source of both illegal drugs and illegal human trafficking if we did invest in a REAL wall along that border.

That would require a solid wall construction both above and below ground, advanced sensors, and increased border agents assigned (like the old Romans along Hadrian's Wall) to specific strategically placed posts along the wall who would be held absolutely responsible for any digging, climbing, cutting, etc. along their assigned sectors.

As for the "sea routes?" That is what we have the Coast Guard for, and beefing up land-based and sea-seeded sensors as well as personnel assigned patrols would cover that avenue of approach.

But no, we just declare "that won't work because..." and let the problems continue. :roll:

The same holds true for Healthcare.

If we REALLY want a national healthcare system then stop screwing around. Create a national single-payer plan merging with Medicare/Medicaid and SS Disability. Let us ALL pay one taxed fee under FICA.

Then establish regulations for the prices of procedures, medicines, and other treatments and support. We set up Federal regulations under the Commerce Clause for licensing of Medical practitioners, hospitals, and pharmaceutical companies to accept these requirements. Voila! National Healthcare in a nutshell... moving on.

Nope, instead we try to keep in "Free Market," forgetting that the Free Market is profit-based and if there is no profit, there is no desire to participate. So profit will drive Big Insurance, the AMA, and Big Pharma under any such plan regardless of how nice they sound.

Sooo, why do we insist on doing things half-assed and creating more problems?
Click to expand...

Because I don't want single payer.
 
devildavid said:
The reason we don't address the illegal immigrant problem is that it has never really been seen as a problem to those with the power or influence to address it. To the contrary, it was seen as a way to get cheap controllable labor from people who had no rights. I'm not sure when it became a "problem" but it is mostly used as a distraction from the real problem. The utter corruption of American society on every level. "Blame it on the illegals" is the battle cry of corrupt Americans who want to distract from their complicity.
Click to expand...

This is exactly what's happened in Los Angeles. The people who are hurt by immigration get no voice, and have to deal with it (many natives have just left the city), while the rich enjoy the cheap labor.
 
reinoe said:
The biggest influx of illegal immigrants is to students overstaying their visas. Our southern border is a problem because criminals, drugs, and the dregs of society are coming in from the southern border. The people who are overstaying their education visas are not generally the trouble-making types.
Click to expand...

Other than breaking our laws.
 
Yes our federal government seems very inadequate in getting things done right mainly because much of the stuff they stick their noses into they have no Constitutional standing to do so. Congress critters are good at putting Band-aids on things that they all too often created the problem. We have a federal government that's increasingly bloated, corrupt, reckless and invasive. How can anyone expect real solutions those who are actually the problem?

While the big news yesterday was the passage of the health care bill in the House there was something for me that was even bigger. Texas became the 11th state to pass an Article V Convention of the States resolution in both chambers. There are currently 9 states who have passed a COS resolution in one chamber. Twenty some states to date have active legislation.
The magic number is 34 needed. WHEN we reach 34, a convention of states will be called. It's a wonderful tool the Founders left us to combat an out of control federal government.

https://www.conventionofstates.com/nu
 
Captain Adverse said:
If we think we need to do something about whatever issue needs attention, why aren't we trying to do it right?

I cite two examples. Immigration and the Border Wall; National Healthcare.

Just about everyone other than the Progressive-Left (and anyone further Left then they are) recognizes a problem with Illegal Immigration, and the push to allow mass migration into our nation. Yet any time any real drive or effort seems to be mentioned, all the nay-sayers come out, and the moderates want to compromise, and we end up with half-assed solutions which are no solutions at all.

Case in point is the idea of building a real border wall along our southern border, the place where the greatest number of illegal aliens typically arrive along.

Naysayers point to things like how the current "walls" don't work, how there is an easy work-around for illegals...those big "holes" along our seacoasts, and then cry 'inhumanity" as an emotional appeal for the mere idea of preventing people from surging into the "Land of the Free."

IMO, if we did it right, we could have an effective bar to a major source of both illegal drugs and illegal human trafficking if we did invest in a REAL wall along that border.

That would require a solid wall construction both above and below ground, advanced sensors, and increased border agents assigned (like the old Romans along Hadrian's Wall) to specific strategically placed posts along the wall who would be held absolutely responsible for any digging, climbing, cutting, etc. along their assigned sectors.

As for the "sea routes?" That is what we have the Coast Guard for, and beefing up land-based and sea-seeded sensors as well as personnel assigned patrols would cover that avenue of approach.

But no, we just declare "that won't work because..." and let the problems continue. :roll:

The same holds true for Healthcare.

If we REALLY want a national healthcare system then stop screwing around. Create a national single-payer plan merging with Medicare/Medicaid and SS Disability. Let us ALL pay one taxed fee under FICA.

Then establish regulations for the prices of procedures, medicines, and other treatments and support. We set up Federal regulations under the Commerce Clause for licensing of Medical practitioners, hospitals, and pharmaceutical companies to accept these requirements. Voila! National Healthcare in a nutshell... moving on.

Nope, instead we try to keep in "Free Market," forgetting that the Free Market is profit-based and if there is no profit, there is no desire to participate. So profit will drive Big Insurance, the AMA, and Big Pharma under any such plan regardless of how nice they sound.

Sooo, why do we insist on doing things half-assed and creating more problems?
Click to expand...

You must believe that lawmakers act in the public interest. Unfortunately they act in self interest. Follow the money.
 
Captain Adverse said:
If we think we need to do something about whatever issue needs attention, why aren't we trying to do it right?

I cite two examples. Immigration and the Border Wall; National Healthcare.

Just about everyone other than the Progressive-Left (and anyone further Left then they are) recognizes a problem with Illegal Immigration, and the push to allow mass migration into our nation. Yet any time any real drive or effort seems to be mentioned, all the nay-sayers come out, and the moderates want to compromise, and we end up with half-assed solutions which are no solutions at all.

Case in point is the idea of building a real border wall along our southern border, the place where the greatest number of illegal aliens typically arrive along.

Naysayers point to things like how the current "walls" don't work, how there is an easy work-around for illegals...those big "holes" along our seacoasts, and then cry 'inhumanity" as an emotional appeal for the mere idea of preventing people from surging into the "Land of the Free."

IMO, if we did it right, we could have an effective bar to a major source of both illegal drugs and illegal human trafficking if we did invest in a REAL wall along that border.

That would require a solid wall construction both above and below ground, advanced sensors, and increased border agents assigned (like the old Romans along Hadrian's Wall) to specific strategically placed posts along the wall who would be held absolutely responsible for any digging, climbing, cutting, etc. along their assigned sectors.

As for the "sea routes?" That is what we have the Coast Guard for, and beefing up land-based and sea-seeded sensors as well as personnel assigned patrols would cover that avenue of approach.

But no, we just declare "that won't work because..." and let the problems continue. :roll:

The same holds true for Healthcare.

If we REALLY want a national healthcare system then stop screwing around. Create a national single-payer plan merging with Medicare/Medicaid and SS Disability. Let us ALL pay one taxed fee under FICA.

Then establish regulations for the prices of procedures, medicines, and other treatments and support. We set up Federal regulations under the Commerce Clause for licensing of Medical practitioners, hospitals, and pharmaceutical companies to accept these requirements. Voila! National Healthcare in a nutshell... moving on.

Nope, instead we try to keep in "Free Market," forgetting that the Free Market is profit-based and if there is no profit, there is no desire to participate. So profit will drive Big Insurance, the AMA, and Big Pharma under any such plan regardless of how nice they sound.

Sooo, why do we insist on doing things half-assed and creating more problems?
Click to expand...

Because there are rich and powerful people and companies who are profiting from the status quo. Half-assed "solutions" can themselves be big profit engines. Look at the quarter-assed invasion of Iraq, for example.
 
Captain Adverse said:
If we think we need to do something about whatever issue needs attention, why aren't we trying to do it right?

I cite two examples. Immigration and the Border Wall; National Healthcare.

Just about everyone other than the Progressive-Left (and anyone further Left then they are) recognizes a problem with Illegal Immigration, and the push to allow mass migration into our nation. Yet any time any real drive or effort seems to be mentioned, all the nay-sayers come out, and the moderates want to compromise, and we end up with half-assed solutions which are no solutions at all.

Case in point is the idea of building a real border wall along our southern border, the place where the greatest number of illegal aliens typically arrive along.

Naysayers point to things like how the current "walls" don't work, how there is an easy work-around for illegals...those big "holes" along our seacoasts, and then cry 'inhumanity" as an emotional appeal for the mere idea of preventing people from surging into the "Land of the Free."

IMO, if we did it right, we could have an effective bar to a major source of both illegal drugs and illegal human trafficking if we did invest in a REAL wall along that border.

That would require a solid wall construction both above and below ground, advanced sensors, and increased border agents assigned (like the old Romans along Hadrian's Wall) to specific strategically placed posts along the wall who would be held absolutely responsible for any digging, climbing, cutting, etc. along their assigned sectors.

As for the "sea routes?" That is what we have the Coast Guard for, and beefing up land-based and sea-seeded sensors as well as personnel assigned patrols would cover that avenue of approach.

But no, we just declare "that won't work because..." and let the problems continue. :roll:

The same holds true for Healthcare.

If we REALLY want a national healthcare system then stop screwing around. Create a national single-payer plan merging with Medicare/Medicaid and SS Disability. Let us ALL pay one taxed fee under FICA.

Then establish regulations for the prices of procedures, medicines, and other treatments and support. We set up Federal regulations under the Commerce Clause for licensing of Medical practitioners, hospitals, and pharmaceutical companies to accept these requirements. Voila! National Healthcare in a nutshell... moving on.

Nope, instead we try to keep in "Free Market," forgetting that the Free Market is profit-based and if there is no profit, there is no desire to participate. So profit will drive Big Insurance, the AMA, and Big Pharma under any such plan regardless of how nice they sound.

Sooo, why do we insist on doing things half-assed and creating more problems?
Click to expand...

Well, it takes the kind of moral courage a lot of congress people don't have to commit to these big decisions. Concerning the wall, I think sticker shock and the "inhumane" label are too much for most congress people to bear, although I'm sure Trump would do it himself no problem.

As for healthcare, I don't think most Conservatives would vote for single payer, even though there's no going back to a time before government intervention when healthcare was, I'm assuming, much more affordable. I'm assuming they won't because it's so contrary to conservative beliefs but more importantly, they may not get re-elected.
 


Immigration is a bit more complicated than "Build a Wall!"
 
katzgar said:
are there ail flights between palestine and israel? no there are not. are there visas that palestinians are over staying? no there are not.
Click to expand...

So Israel just wasted money? Or do they take their immigration laws seriously?
 
ThoughtEx. said:


Immigration is a bit more complicated than "Build a Wall!"
Click to expand...


The only people who are even implying that building a will will solve everything are the people who have no other arguments other than strawmen. Individuals such as yourself.
 
katzgar said:
are you truly not getting what I am saying or are you playing a game?
Click to expand...

I'm saying that the wall is a part of a larger strategy. No one is saying that the wall alone fixes everything.
 
reinoe said:
The only people who are even implying that building a will will solve everything are the people who have no other arguments other than strawmen. Individuals such as yourself.
Click to expand...

Ah, so your real goal is to undertake a large, and expensive undertaking that promises little in the way of results before fixing the less expensive logistical problems laid out in the video provided.

Let me ask, did you even watch the video before commenting? Or did you just jump right into the partisan knee jerk reaction most hacks employ when they have no legs to stand on.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom