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If Trump were lying about voter fraud . . .

Simon W. Moon

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What would be different from the current situation
if it were true that Trump were lying about widespread voter fraud / stealing the election?

How would things look then?

What markers can we use to differentiate our current state of affairs from a world where Trump really was lying about widespread voter fraud stealing the election?

Even if you don't respond here,
at least consider this question in the privacy of your own mind.
 
Since virtually everyone here accepts that Trump was lying about voter fraud, I'm not sure who your target audience is.
 
Why has Trump been lying about voter fraud?

What's his deal?
 
I believe, by now, even the most ardent Trumptard realizes, in their heart of hearts, there really was no "rigged" election or "fraud." If not, it is only a testament as to how stupid they really are.

Of course, they will never admit it because that would mean they were wrong. And, it would suggest they might also be wrong about all the other bullshit that was based on similar Trump lies and Trump bullshit.

So, I don't think anything will change with those butthurt folks. Best to just ignore their ignorant asses.
 
What would be different from the current situation
if it were true that Trump were lying about widespread voter fraud / stealing the election?

How would things look then?

What markers can we use to differentiate our current state of affairs from a world where Trump really was lying about widespread voter fraud stealing the election?

Even if you don't respond here,
at least consider this question in the privacy of your own mind.
Simple:
It is in fact true that Trump is lying and this is how we know it,
The Facts are not on Trump's side
The Law are not on Trump's side
The Evidence is not on Trump's side
Logic is not on Trump's side

None of them are on Trump's side to date, not a one from Nov 3rd till now.

Need I remind people just for a Chaser: DonDon yammered endlessly about a stolen or fraudulent election being the only way he could lose BEFORE Nov 3rd. As with many cults and cult leaders, this became an exercise in the cult and the cult leader insisting that the cult leader could be wrong. Then you have the opportunists that are just trying to gloms onto the Trump cult and pick up voters for their own future campaigns. See Ted Cruz and Josh Hawley for good examples.
 
I believe, by now, even the most ardent Trumptard realizes, in their heart of hearts, there really was no "rigged" election or "fraud." If not, it is only a testament as to how stupid they really are.

Of course, they will never admit it because that would mean they were wrong. And, it would suggest they might also be wrong about all the other bullshit that was based on similar Trump lies and Trump bullshit.

So, I don't think anything will change with those butthurt folks. Best to just ignore their ignorant asses.
Many are in so deep that can no longer find their way out.
 
Simple:
It is in fact true that Trump is lying and this is how we know it,
The Facts are not on Trump's side
The Law are not on Trump's side
The Evidence is not on Trump's side
Logic is not on Trump's side

None of them are on Trump's side to date, not a one from Nov 3rd till now.

Need I remind people just for a Chaser: DonDon yammered endlessly about a stolen or fraudulent election being the only way he could lose BEFORE Nov 3rd. As with many cults and cult leaders, this became an exercise in the cult and the cult leader insisting that the cult leader could be wrong. Then you have the opportunists that are just trying to gloms onto the Trump cult and pick up voters for their own future campaigns. See Ted Cruz and Josh Hawley for good examples.
Actually, Trump was claiming a rigged election all the way back to 2016.
 
Actually, Trump was claiming a rigged election all the way back to 2016.
Actually, he said the same things about 2012.

More reports of voting machines switching Romney votes to Obama. Pay close attention to the machines, don't let your vote be stolen
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) November 6, 2012

Make sure to verify the voting machine does not switch your vote. If you have any problems, notify the poll workers.
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) November 6, 2012

This election is a total sham and a travesty. We are not a democracy!
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) November 7, 2012

We can't let this happen. We should march on Washington and stop this travesty. Our nation is totally divided!
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) November 7, 2012

Our country is now in serious and unprecedented trouble...like never before.
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) November 7, 2012
 
What would be different from the current situation
if it were true that Trump were lying about widespread voter fraud / stealing the election?

How would things look then?

What markers can we use to differentiate our current state of affairs from a world where Trump really was lying about widespread voter fraud stealing the election?

Even if you don't respond here,
at least consider this question in the privacy of your own mind.
There was voter fraud. The level is unknown but considered acceptable
 
Why has Trump been lying about voter fraud?

What's his deal?
He doesnt want to lose the biggest captive audience in the world and the complete lack of accountability for any of his actions. And because he faces legal charges and financial issues when out of office.

He started complaining about voter fraud years before this election...to prime an unfortunately large audience of those susceptible to suggestion. He knows his audience. It worked.
 
There was voter fraud. The level is unknown but considered acceptable
The OP asked specifically about widespread voter fraud OF WHICH THERE IS NO LOGICAL REASON TO BELIEVE THERE WAS ANY! No reason in the Law, no reason in the facts, no reason in the evidence, no reason in logic.

Gut feel, bullshit, conjecture, supposition and CT don't amount to snot.
 
I believe, by now, even the most ardent Trumptard realizes, in their heart of hearts, there really was no "rigged" election or "fraud." If not, it is only a testament as to how stupid they really are.

Of course, they will never admit it because that would mean they were wrong. And, it would suggest they might also be wrong about all the other bullshit that was based on similar Trump lies and Trump bullshit.

So, I don't think anything will change with those butthurt folks. Best to just ignore their ignorant asses.
You should see them now demanding...begging...that Biden stop the impeachment and other investigations into Wed. 1/6.

Some completely believe he shouldnt be held accountable at all and the new dog whistle is "it will divide us further!"
 
The OP asked specifically about widespread voter fraud OF WHICH THERE IS NO LOGICAL REASON TO BELIEVE THERE WAS ANY! No reason in the Law, no reason in the facts, no reason in the evidence, no reason in logic.

Gut feel, bullshit, conjecture, supposition and CT don't amount to snot.
Define 'widespread' in the context of voter fraud. Please provide metrics of how the current level of acceptable voter fraud was determined.
 
What would be different from the current situation
if it were true that Trump were lying about widespread voter fraud / stealing the election?

How would things look then?

What markers can we use to differentiate our current state of affairs from a world where Trump really was lying about widespread voter fraud stealing the election?

Even if you don't respond here,
at least consider this question in the privacy of your own mind.

You have this exactly backwards, of course, since Trump IS lying about voter fraud.
The correct question thus is: LET US SUPPOSE THAT TRUMP WAS ACTUALLY TELLING THE TRUTH ABOUT VOTER FRAUD. WOULD THAT THEN JUSTIFY THE ACTIONS OF THE DEMONSTRATORS TO STORM INTO THE CAPITOL TO STOP THE VERIFICATION OF BIDEN AS PRESIDENT?
 
Define 'widespread' in the context of voter fraud. Please provide metrics of how the current level of acceptable voter fraud was determined.
Normally within the context of a National Election, across states. However in this instance, even on a state by state basis neither facts, the law nor evidence are on Trump's side. You don't need logic to figure it out on a state by state basis. If claiming widespread election fraud across states, then logic is not with you either.
 
There was voter fraud. The level is unknown but considered acceptable
If the level is unknown then does it really qualify as "widespread voter fraud stealing the election"?

If Trump were lying about the degree of voter fraud, like if it were some level other than "widespread voter fraud stealing the election", how would things look different than they look now?
 
Trump always claims "rigged" or "fraud" if he loses the election

All The Elections Trump Has Claimed Were Stolen Through Voter Fraud

https://www.forbes.com/sites/andrew...p-has-claimed-were-stolen-through-voter-fraud
Nov. 2012
Trump, who had endorsed Republican nominee Mitt Romney, tweeted about apocryphal reports of “voting machines switching Romney votes to Obama” after previously warning supporters in October to “be careful of voter fraud!”

Feb. 2016
Trump repeatedly chalked up his narrow loss to Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Tex.) in the Iowa caucus to voter fraud, pushing vague, unsubstantiated claims Cruz “cheated” and “stole” the election and demanding, “either a new election should take place or Cruz results nullified.”

Nov. 2016
Despite defeating Hillary Clinton in the Electoral College, Trump tweeted baseless allegations of “millions of FRAUD votes” and claiming, “Serious voter fraud in Virginia, New Hampshire and California.”

Dec. 2017
Trump subtly pushed doubts about the legitimacy of Alabama’s special Senate election, which Democrat Doug Jones won in an upset, conceding “a win is a win,” but adding, “The write-in votes played a very big factor.”

Nov. 2018
Trump took aim at Senate elections in Arizona and Florida and a gubernatorial race in Georgia – the latter two of which Republicans won – falsely claiming Florida counties “miraculously started finding Democrat votes” and proposing a new election in Arizona because of unexplained “electoral corruption.”

Aug. 2020
A rare example where Trump lacked a direct personal stake, he called to re-run the late-decided Democratic primary in New York’s 12th District, pointing to it as a prime example of the failings of mail-in voting – though analysts argue such examples serve better as a display of New York’s subpar election administration.

Nov. 2020
Trump has made some of his most outlandish voter fraud claims yet in an effort to hang onto power despite Democrat Joe Biden’s clear win, repeatedly pushing claims about voting machines changing votes that even his own officials rebuked.

Trump accuses Cruz of 'fraud,' calls for new Iowa election
"Ted Cruz didn't win Iowa, he illegally stole it. That is why all of the polls were so wrong," Trump said in a subsequently deleted tweet

Trump accuses Cruz of stealing Iowa caucuses through 'fraud'
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-trump-cruz-idUSKCN0VC1Z6

Donald Trump claims Ted Cruz 'stole' Iowa caucuses and calls for new election
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...ump-ted-cruz-stole-iowa-caucuses-new-election

Trump claimed ballots were 'dumped in a river.' The reality is far from it.
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-claimed-ballots-dumped-river-reality/story?id=73370587
"Did you see what's going on?" Trump said onstage. "They are being dumped in rivers. This is a horrible thing for our country."
White House press secretary Kayleigh McEnany later made it clear that Trump was talking about the investigation in Wisconsin.

McEnany was repeatedly pressed by a reporter on Thursday to clarify where the "river" that Trump talked about was located, but she declined to answer.

White House can't identify mystery river where Trump claims ballots were dumped
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...ite-house-press-sec-ballot-river-b743232.html
White House Press Secretary Kayleigh McEnany folded under a simple question regarding a claim Donald Trump made that mail-in ballots for the 2020 US election were being dumped in rivers and creeks.

"Where is the river?" the reporter asked.

Ms McEnany, rather than answering the question, launched into a defensive tirade accusing the reporter of "missing the forest for the trees" and accusing him and others of lacking "journalistic curiosity."

"The other day [Mr Trump] said 'they found a lot of ballots in a river.' Who is they?" the reporter asked. "Who is 'they,' that found those ballots, and where is this river, anywhere in this country?"
 
Since virtually everyone here accepts that Trump was lying about voter fraud, I'm not sure who your target audience is.
You assume too much. It's not just fraud it's illegally changing the election rules. State constitutions lay our the process and several states didn't follow their own rules/laws. That should nullify those votes.
 
You assume too much. It's not just fraud it's illegally changing the election rules. State constitutions lay our the process and several states didn't follow their own rules/laws. That should nullify those votes.
The courts didn't agree, and more importantly, it would also nullify the votes of people in other races as well. To claim it should only nullify votes for Biden is ridiculous.
 
Why has Trump been lying about voter fraud?

What's his deal?
His deal is what it has always been, his fragile ego. Trump’s ego couldn’t face the fact that although he became president, a significant prize, he lost the popular vote in 2016. It had to be rigged. Hence the snipe hunt that followed. How could the great Donald lose? Witness him saying he had the largest electoral college victory in 2016 since Reagan. When told Obama had a larger one just a few years earlier, he said he had the largest *republican* victory. That was also wrong.

Now we’re telling him he lost in 2020 by seven million votes? You expect him to believe or admit that?
 
The only evidence that these "fringe" posters would ever accept of a fair election is a Trump win. Period.
Yes. The one term mistake told then that if he lost the election it would only be because of fraud and they take everything he says at face value.
 
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