If Swedish citizens can self regulate, why cannot US citizens?

[Paradoxical]

Odd that you present a conspiracy theory instead of 2 simple 'yes or no' answers.

Care to try again?

Death rate isnt affected by treatment (a response)? Death rate isnt affected by the availability of medical staff and resources? (flattening the curve: a response)?

Yes or no to those statements?​

I don't have a clue as to your entrapment type questions.Please state what it is you are trying to get at? I always do. I don't beat around the bush and suggest you make clear what your point is.

 

[Rawley]

Aaaannnddd what is the purpose of 'not overwhelming the medical system?'

Jeebus :roll:

If you are trying to say more lives are saved - only marginally. If you are in a vulnerable group and you catch this virus, your odds of dying are the same regardless of whether it is in a spike or in a flattened curve. There are limited medical treatments.

 

[Rawley]

I don't have a clue as to your entrapment type questions.Please state what it is you are trying to get at? I always do. I don't beat around the bush and suggest you make clear what your point is.

Ms. Lursa seems to enjoy the "hide the ball" method of debate.

 

[Paradoxical]

Ms. Lursa seems to enjoy the "hide the ball" method of debate.

Yes. The vagaries are readily apparent. I don't care to engage in gotcha questions. That's why my posts are loner. I tell people what I think. Others beat around the bush so they never really have to state a position they know they can't defend. I have said the numbers are outrageously over stated and given the reasons why. Instead of debating that, I get a million vague questions

 

[Rawley]

Yes. The vagaries are readily apparent. I don't care to engage in gotcha questions. That's why my posts are loner. I tell people what I think. Others beat around the bush so they never really have to state a position they know they can't defend. I have said the numbers are outrageously over stated and given the reasons why. Instead of debating that, I get a million vague questions

What do you think the odds are of the more draconian Governors changing their orders based on the WHO's embrace of the Swedish model? Mine, California, is going backwards. Newsom is clamping down harder. Huge (hopefully) demonstrations in Huntington Beach and Sacramento today.

 

[Lursa]

I don't have a clue as to your entrapment type questions.Please state what it is you are trying to get at? I always do. I don't beat around the bush and suggest you make clear what your point is.

They are simple yes or no questions. Why do you think they are gotchas?

You posted statements. I'm trying to find out if you can substantiate those statements. Because as far as I know, your statements are wrong.

Would you prefer I just call them out as such, or find out if there's a reason behind them?

Death rate isnt affected by treatment (a response)? Death rate isnt affected by the availability of medical staff and resources? (flattening the curve: a response)?

Yes or no to those statements?​

This is the barely coherent and grammatically inept speech of a man who desperately wants to be able to claim that he "cured coronavirus."

That's it, in a nutshell. When we do get a handle on this crisis, he wants to be able to pull out footage and declare "I called it! I said use this! I said try this! I told them to do this, it was my idea!" He's just doing it with lots of stupid stuff because he doesnt want to miss an opportunity. He's afraid 'the big one' will be mentioned and he wont get credit for it.

It's all about declaring himself the savior of the cv crisis and we'll hear all about it, esp in his campaign. (Which is basically each of his press briefings these days) --- Lursa

 

[Paradoxical]

What do you think the odds are of the more draconian Governors changing their orders based on the WHO's embrace of the Swedish model? Mine, California, is going backwards. Newsom is clamping down harder. Huge (hopefully) demonstrations in Huntington Beach and Sacramento today.

I live in socal and when this craze is over, we will be selling. California wasn't hit as hard because we are more spread out. I don't think we should have shut down the country. I don't and won't wear a mask unless I am forced to at a grocery store and it still upsets me. A guy on TV said last night they are only 2% effective anyway. If Trump didn't do what he did though, the libs would have started anther impeachment.

Newsom spent a BILLION om masks. For what? And from the Chinese. He is only a governor. He doesn't know his arse from a hole in the ground. He also is spending 100 MILLION for illegals, (which is illegal) But the libbies here are silent. Calif. will have to raise taxes substantially again.

 

[Paradoxical]

They are simple yes or no questions. Why do you think they are gotchas?

You posted statements. I'm trying to find out if you can substantiate those statements. Because as far as I know, your statements are wrong.

Would you prefer I just call them out as such, or find out if there's a reason behind them?

Tell me which of my statements are wrong and why.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

What do you think the odds are of the more draconian Governors changing their orders based on the WHO's embrace of the Swedish model? Mine, California, is going backwards. Newsom is clamping down harder. Huge (hopefully) demonstrations in Huntington Beach and Sacramento today.

Sweden is showing that is can kill more of its citizens at higher rates than its peers. You are advocating for the same thing.

 

[Lursa]

If you are trying to say more lives are saved - only marginally. If you are in a vulnerable group and you catch this virus, your odds of dying are the same regardless of whether it is in a spike or in a flattened curve. There are limited medical treatments.

I see. Well please provide sources for that, because it seems like it would be a poor idea to be preserving and spreading out medical resources *for only marginal results.* And dont bother with 'it was a bad idea' until you can provide the sources that prove it.

Not only does having enough resources available to treat CV patients when they come in save lives, it also means there are more medical resources for all the blown appendixes, ER cases, emergency surgeries, etc etc etc. It means that there is treatment and resources available to save more lives, period. Shortages means more deaths.

This is the barely coherent and grammatically inept speech of a man who desperately wants to be able to claim that he "cured coronavirus."

That's it, in a nutshell. When we do get a handle on this crisis, he wants to be able to pull out footage and declare "I called it! I said use this! I said try this! I told them to do this, it was my idea!" He's just doing it with lots of stupid stuff because he doesnt want to miss an opportunity. He's afraid 'the big one' will be mentioned and he wont get credit for it.

It's all about declaring himself the savior of the cv crisis and we'll hear all about it, esp in his campaign. (Which is basically each of his press briefings these days) --- Lursa

 

[Rawley]

Sweden is showing that is can kill more of its citizens at higher rates than its peers. You are advocating for the same thing.

Just a hint -no matter what state you're in, when your Governor loosens his/her restrictions he/she will be "killing" your neighbors - if you really find it helpful to discuss the issue that way.

 

[Lursa]

How could that be? The rate of death has NOTHING to do with any response or how many were infected.

Death rate isnt affected by treatment (a response)? Death rate isnt affected by the availability of medical staff and resources? (flattening the curve: a response)?

Yes or no to those statements?

Fine...you are wrong: of course death rate is affected by responses. Medical treatments are responses. Social distancing is a response, it lowered the death rate. Just 2 basic reasons right there.

And death rate calculations are "based on how many are infected" :doh

I don't have a clue as to your entrapment type questions.Please state what it is you are trying to get at? I always do. I don't beat around the bush and suggest you make clear what your point is.

So never mind, you didnt want the opportunity to support your erroneous statements. Cool.

This is the barely coherent and grammatically inept speech of a man who desperately wants to be able to claim that he "cured coronavirus."

That's it, in a nutshell. When we do get a handle on this crisis, he wants to be able to pull out footage and declare "I called it! I said use this! I said try this! I told them to do this, it was my idea!" He's just doing it with lots of stupid stuff because he doesnt want to miss an opportunity. He's afraid 'the big one' will be mentioned and he wont get credit for it.

It's all about declaring himself the savior of the cv crisis and we'll hear all about it, esp in his campaign. (Which is basically each of his press briefings these days) --- Lursa

 

[Lursa]

Ms. Lursa seems to enjoy the "hide the ball" method of debate.

Well I did provide opportunities to explain your views.

I'll remember not to next time.

This is the barely coherent and grammatically inept speech of a man who desperately wants to be able to claim that he "cured coronavirus."

That's it, in a nutshell. When we do get a handle on this crisis, he wants to be able to pull out footage and declare "I called it! I said use this! I said try this! I told them to do this, it was my idea!" He's just doing it with lots of stupid stuff because he doesnt want to miss an opportunity. He's afraid 'the big one' will be mentioned and he wont get credit for it.

It's all about declaring himself the savior of the cv crisis and we'll hear all about it, esp in his campaign. (Which is basically each of his press briefings these days) --- Lursa

 

[Rawley]

I live in socal and when this craze is over, we will be selling. California wasn't hit as hard because we are more spread out. I don't think we should have shut down the country. I don't and won't wear a mask unless I am forced to at a grocery store and it still upsets me. A guy on TV said last night they are only 2% effective anyway. If Trump didn't do what he did though, the libs would have started anther impeachment.

Newsom spent a BILLION om masks. For what? And from the Chinese. He is only a governor. He doesn't know his arse from a hole in the ground. He also is spending 100 MILLION for illegals, (which is illegal) But the libbies here are silent. Calif. will have to raise taxes substantially again.

I forgot you were also SoCal. What is it going to take, civil unrest? My wife is begging to down to Huntington Beach today.

 

[Rawley]

later

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

SOME Americans don't like being told what to do.

If this was like a tornado, hey go ahead and go outside and party with the twister if you insist.
But this is like being outside in a tornado, and then when you go back inside, the tornado comes WITH YOU.

So it's not a case of being told what to do just for the sake of telling people what to do.
When you march around outside with no protection, you are endangering the lives of others.
Then, if YOU fall ill, you demand we pay for your hospitalization, which could have been avoided if you had just followed instructions in the first place.
Then later, after you recover (if you're lucky) you go back to bashing all those blue states that contributed money to help you and your idiot red state.
At some point, clear headed thinking either has to win the day or idiots win the day.
Well guess what, at this point I am of the opinion that if you want to flout the rules, you and you alone should be responsible for the consequences.
Not only will we bury you in a pauper's grave, we will seize and sell all your stuff to pay for the people you infected.

It's one thing if your behavior only endangers you, another if it endangers others.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

Just a hint -no matter what state you're in, when your Governor loosens his/her restrictions he/she will be "killing" your neighbors - if you really find it helpful to discuss the issue that way.

You switched from argument of "marginal"...to absolutes. This is commonly known as "moving the goal posts". I was not making an absolute argument, I showed the comparison of results between Sweden and its peers. You are advocating for a Swedish death method.

 

[bomberfox]

You suggested being unprepared was the key. Since Cuomo has half the total, sold off masks and decimated his health car system, sent people back to nursing homes from the hospital, nursing homes have half the deaths, are you blaming him?

If there was more evidence behind your claims perhaps. Now back to the topic of national policy which you are avoiding for a reason

 

[Gimmesometruth]

later

buh bye

 

[Paradoxical]

I forgot you were also SoCal. What is it going to take, civil unrest? My wife is begging to down to Huntington Beach today.

Funny. I told my wife last night that I would like to go there myself just to stage a mass protest but FaceBook is now removing any such posts for civil disobedience. They and YouTube are now the societal monitors. They are shaping world opinion and they are staffed with twentysomething year old computer nerds. I posted the video on FB from those two Bakersfield doctors to all my friends. YouTube deleted the video!! There were no lies in that video. I can't contact YouTube to complain.

The distressing thing is that these leftists are all PK with these Chinese type tactics. In NYC, Cuomo is doing what SK did in getting the names and contact info from people who had the Corona Virus and going to speak to those people. Can you imagine this??

If this doesn't end soon. there will be civil unrest! This is crazy.

Only good thing is I hear the cops in Huntington Beach are going to ignore the Governor. Will he have the National Guard come in next for war?

 

[TOJ]

And most of those will be fat and unhealthy. Can't say I'm too broken up about it.

And a large majority would be Trump supporters and Social Security and Medicare users.

When the herd needs thinning survival of the fittest isn't such a bad thing.

.

 

[Paradoxical]

Lursa;1071796101]Fine...you are wrong: of course death rate is affected by responses. Medical treatments are responses. Social distancing is a response, it lowered the death rate. Just 2 basic reasons right there.

And death rate calculations are "based on how many are infected" :doh

And those who are "infected' are determined through NO required testing. You cam look at the CDC website. What happens Lursa is that if someone dies here in the United States particularly in New York, they can call it a COVID-19 death even if that person was in the hospital for a heart attack, advanced lung cancer, diabetes, etc. So you are in shape, go to the hospital as an emergency, and die. They cal you a Covid patient because the hospitals get paid that way. There is a 100 billion dollar fund for uninsured people. This is not what other countries have to do. They have universal health.

So never mind, you didnt want the opportunity to support your erroneous statements. Cool.

I just did above. There is no other logical reason for the disparity. It is mathematically impossible. Humans are humans and the doctors here are just as qualified as in any other part of the world, and yet SIX TIMES more people die from being infected than other places?? Seriously?

 

[Rawley]

You switched from argument of "marginal"...to absolutes. This is commonly known as "moving the goal posts". I was not making an absolute argument, I showed the comparison of results between Sweden and its peers. You are advocating for a Swedish death method.

Sorry Gimmie, but you take yourself out of the game when you are using the language that I am advocating "killing" people. Your lack respect for opposing opinions, specifically that of the WHO, is clear.

 

[Rawley]

Funny. I told my wife last night that I would like to go there myself just to stage a mass protest but FaceBook is now removing any such posts for civil disobedience. They and YouTube are now the societal monitors. They are shaping world opinion and they are staffed with twentysomething year old computer nerds. I posted the video on FB from those two Bakersfield doctors to all my friends. YouTube deleted the video!! There were no lies in that video. I can't contact YouTube to complain.

The distressing thing is that these leftists are all PK with these Chinese type tactics. In NYC, Cuomo is doing what SK did in getting the names and contact info from people who had the Corona Virus and going to speak to those people. Can you imagine this??

If this doesn't end soon. there will be civil unrest! This is crazy.

Only good thing is I hear the cops in Huntington Beach are going to ignore the Governor. Will he have the National Guard come in next for war?

I was curious about that. Now that the WHO have embraced the model advocated by the doctors, will they re-instate those videos?

Insane.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

Sorry Gimmie, but you take yourself out of the game when you are using the language that I am advocating "killing" people. Your lack respect for opposing opinions, specifically that of the WHO, is clear.

Good grief, you have gone from moving the goal posts on "marginal" to absolutes....and now moving the argument to how it was constructed, as if you were insulted. This is not debate, this is pure avoidance. The point remains, you argued for greater transmission levels by arguing that folks should ignore sheltering and head to the beach. You don't get to distract from your argument in favor of greater levels of death by whining about how it is phrased or shifting to absolutes. Your argument is one of a blatant disregard for human life, but then again, that is par for the course for most "conservatives" these days. They are more interested in conserving their "freedom" to spread disease, than conserving human life.