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IF merely being suspected of "terrorism" or being investigated by the FBI

TurtleDude

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should prevent someone who has yet to be charged, indicted or convicted of any crime, from being able to own a gun

then why should someone be able to be nominated, run or serve as president when they too are under investigation?

Hmmmm
 

ttwtt78640

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You will have to ask chromium, our resident extra judicial expert on these matters. ;)
 

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should prevent someone who has yet to be charged, indicted or convicted of any crime, from being able to own a gun

then why should someone be able to be nominated, run or serve as president when they too are under investigation?

Hmmmm

You think that not being able to differentiate between something as serious as plotting terror and being less careful with emails than you should makes you seem rational?
 

TurtleDude

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You will have to ask chromium, our resident extra judicial expert on these matters. ;)

he wants to ban anyone from being able to buy or own an AR 15 because he claims he has a right to be free from being shot--notwithstanding that its already illegal to shoot him
 

TurtleDude

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You think that not being able to differentiate between something as serious as plotting terror and being less careful with emails than you should makes you seem rational?

are you laboring under the delusion that the only people who are on that watch list are actually PLOTTING terrorism which I, as a retired federal prosecutor knows can be prosecuted as conspiracy?
 

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are you laboring under the delusion that the only people who are on that watch list are actually PLOTTING terrorism which I, as a retired federal prosecutor knows can be prosecuted as conspiracy?

Nope, simply pointing out the fact that the temporary trivial harm resulting from being denied access to murderous technology should not be compared to allowing any B.S. witch hunt from influencing a presidential election.
 

ttwtt78640

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You think that not being able to differentiate between something as serious as plotting terror and being less careful with emails than you should makes you seem rational?

Plotting terror better get you more than just put on a list and the same is true of improper handling of classified information. The point, in case you missed it, is that we use the judicial system to determine guilt - not which list you are on or which political party you happen to be in with.
 

TurtleDude

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Nope, simply pointing out the fact that the temporary trivial harm resulting from being denied access to murderous technology should not be compared to allowing any B.S. witch hunt from influencing a presidential election.

so you don't believe in constitutional rights or the concept of innocent until proven guilty. do you know right now that if you are wrongfully denied a purchase because of a mistake by the government you don't have any official avenues to appeal it but you must hire an attorney and file a law suit and when you win, your only relief is you are allowed to buy the gun-but you cannot recover your attorney fees
 

TurtleDude

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Plotting terror better get you more than just put on a list and the same is true of improper handling of classified information. The point, in case you missed it, is that we use the judicial system to determine guilt - not which list you are on or which political party you happen to be in with.

most of the gun banners on this board would most likely-if they have the power-put anyone who doesnt' buy into the bannerrhoid positions on guns. We had one gun banner tell us that anyone who buys or owns a gun has to be considered suspect and likely intending criminal actions
 

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Nope, simply pointing out the fact that the temporary trivial harm resulting from being denied access to murderous technology should not be compared to allowing any B.S. witch hunt from influencing a presidential election.

you mean the fact that we should ignore people legal violations as long as they fall into our ideology hmmm doesn't seem to consistent to me.
The FBI choose not to flag this guy. they investigated him 2 times.

however he never convicted or charged him with anything. we live in a nation of innocent until proven guilty.

Clinton is in trouble no doubt about it. the FBI doesn't waste time with witch hunts as you call it.
this has been a full investigation for a while. lying to federal officers is a federal felony by itself.

In any event he would have found a way to do what he was going to do anyway.
it is sad, but there is no reason to take guns from lawful citizens.
 

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you mean the fact that we should ignore people legal violations as long as they fall into our ideology hmmm doesn't seem to consistent to me.
The FBI choose not to flag this guy. they investigated him 2 times.

however he never convicted or charged him with anything. we live in a nation of innocent until proven guilty.

Clinton is in trouble no doubt about it. the FBI doesn't waste time with witch hunts as you call it.
this has been a full investigation for a while. lying to federal officers is a federal felony by itself.

In any event he would have found a way to do what he was going to do anyway.
it is sad, but there is no reason to take guns from lawful citizens.

the problem is is that many on the left want to ban guns. They only pretend its to ban criminals from having guns so when you point out how silly their arguments are from a crime control position, they ignore you because crime control is only a facade they spout out in order to hide their real motivations.
 

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You think that not being able to differentiate between something as serious as plotting terror and being less careful with emails than you should makes you seem rational?

Wouldn't you think it would depend on the content of the emails.
grocery list, no big deal.
critical classified info., maybe the person is showing they are not rational on how they handle information. :mrgreen:
 

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you mean the fact that we should ignore people legal violations as long as they fall into our ideology hmmm doesn't seem to consistent to me.
Nope, just recognize the reality that people with power or the potential to obtain power are generally more likely to be accused of crimes for no reason than some random dong is. The police generally don't have the funds to waste a ton of time on some random dong as a result there's very little interruption to the typical person's liberties. When it's a presidential candidate there is a lot of deep pockets that will fund such witch hunts. If we blocked every candidate just for being accused there would be no candidates.

The FBI choose not to flag this guy. they investigated him 2 times.
Seems to indicate a pretty high bar necessary to flag someone. Seems like the fears of right wing nuts are not justified.

Even if he would have been flagged though he still could have purchased the weapon.

Clinton is in trouble no doubt about it. the FBI doesn't waste time with witch hunts as you call it.
No, but the republican Benghazi committee sure was and if it weren't for that giant waste of time nobody would even know about this silly email ****. Start a BS investigation into any republican in congress and I guarantee you it will turn up more serious **** than what Hillary is being accused of.
 

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most of the gun banners on this board would most likely-if they have the power-put anyone who doesnt' buy into the bannerrhoid positions on guns. We had one gun banner tell us that anyone who buys or owns a gun has to be considered suspect and likely intending criminal actions

Hmm... If about 1/6 of adults are put on the watch list (for merely owning a gun) and it takes 8 agents to actually watch each one then we are in for one huge (over the current entire adult population) federal government. ;)
 

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Hmm... If about 1/6 of adults are put on the watch list (for merely owning a gun) and it takes 8 agents to actually watch each one then we are in for one huge (over the current entire adult population) federal government. ;)

Ted Kennedy was on a watch list

a member of the US archery team was on a no fly and a no car rental list even though she has a fairly unique name due to some bureaucratic screw up. it caused her to almost miss a world cup tournament-she was able to have the national governing body get her on the flight but she had to rely on a teammate for transportation

what we have to do-is if we are going to rely on these lists that are an abomination to a free society is to establish easy to access recourse if you have been wronged along with rather draconian punishments for those who wrongly place people on the list. If you are wrongly denied the ability to own a gun and you are forced to hire an attorney and cleared, your attorney fees as well as your time have to be compensated. The government CANNOT be allowed to hide behind claims of "national security' if it wrongly puts someone on a list and those who do, if found to be in error must lose their jobs and compensate the victim with treble damages
 

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he would have found a way to do what he was going to do anyway.

Yeah, I'm sure he could have killed 49 people and seriously wounded dozens more … with a butter knife.

So you gun NUTS are content with a system that allowed this NUT who was twice investigated by the FBI for terrorist connections … to go to the local gun shop, by an assault rifle, and load up with lots of ammunition. Of course. He had a clear constitutional right to … "protect himself," or go "rabbit hunting," or "enjoy some target practice."

As far as I'm concerned, ya better pull yer head out of it before it's someone you care about that gets ripped into by a few of these charming items.

1.jpg

I don't wanna ban guns. Not even close. I want gun nuts who block efforts to make it more difficult for mass murderers to purchase killing machines … to suffer the way the victims of gun violence and their families suffer.

And I sure do look forward to eight more years of hysterical delusions regarding emails and Benghazi and the Clinton Foundation and Vince Foster and Cattlegate and Filegate and Travelgate and the Rose Law Firm. I'm getting tired of never went to college, married to his male college roommate, hates America, hates the military, hates whites, hates the police, is destroying America, bows down to every foreign leader he meets, wasn't born in the US, terrorist sympathizer (Frumpy all but explicitly said that today), lies all the times, stutters all the time, secret Muslim, etc , etc. We need some new entertainment.
 

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the problem is is that many on the left want to ban guns. They only pretend its to ban criminals from having guns so when you point out how silly their arguments are from a crime control position, they ignore you because crime control is only a facade they spout out in order to hide their real motivations.

Only in the US is this a political issue. In any other developed nation its a very legitimate health and concern that has broad support across the entire political spectrum. Any proposed legislation that would introduce a US style system of unrestricted firearms access would see the party who proposed it cast into electoral oblivion at the polls and rightly so

As I've said before bullets don't care about your politics. This is not an issue of what is right and left here but of what is right or wrong
 

Crimefree

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Only in the US is this a political issue. In any other developed nation its a very legitimate health and concern that has broad support across the entire political spectrum. Any proposed legislation that would introduce a US style system of unrestricted firearms access would see the party who proposed it cast into electoral oblivion at the polls and rightly so

As I've said before bullets don't care about your politics. This is not an issue of what is right and left here but of what is right or wrong

By your logic the party that claimed heretics sane normal people would have been put on the rack at the very least, that proclaimed witches harmless, that proclaimed Jews..... or the the earth was spherical were all right because they we so afraid of the alternative.

I keep saying to you gun control is the practice of indoctrinating people to fear and hate firearms and firearm owners. Thank you for proving me right.

The only heath issue is deprogramming all those fools who cannot tell lies from truth.

I have more than a thousand bullets here and I have yet to hear one even talk let alone care about anything. Seriously a person with ideas like that should seek professional advice.

It is wrong to take the best means of defence from citizens turning them into guaranteed defenceless and safe criminal fodder. It is wrong to take guns from a millions of people for fear one may commit a crime. That is lunacy at best.
 
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EMNofSeattle

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Only in the US is this a political issue. In any other developed nation its a very legitimate health and concern that has broad support across the entire political spectrum. Any proposed legislation that would introduce a US style system of unrestricted firearms access would see the party who proposed it cast into electoral oblivion at the polls and rightly so

As I've said before bullets don't care about your politics. This is not an issue of what is right and left here but of what is right or wrong

We do not have unrestricted firearm access in the US, already your argument is built on a lie.
 

flogger

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We do not have unrestricted firearm access in the US, already your argument is built on a lie.

Yes you do. Even if restrictions are tighter in one state than another there is nothing to stop guns being brought across state lines. Even a felon can simply buy a gun second hand no questions asked

Thats pretty much unrestricted access in my view
 

EMNofSeattle

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Yeah, I'm sure he could have killed 49 people and seriously wounded dozens more … with a butter knife.

or 168 with fertilizer and diesel fuel
So you gun NUTS are content with a system that allowed this NUT who was twice investigated by the FBI for terrorist connections … to go to the local gun shop, by an assault rifle, and load up with lots of ammunition. Of course. He had a clear constitutional right to … "protect himself," or go "rabbit hunting," or "enjoy some target practice."

Yes, in the United States we have due process, imagine that.

As far as I'm concerned, ya better pull yer head out of it before it's someone you care about that gets ripped into by a few of these charming items.

View attachment 67202760



I don't wanna ban guns. Not even close. I want gun nuts who block efforts to make it more difficult for mass murderers to purchase killing machines … to suffer the way the victims of gun violence and their families suffer.
an emotional argument, not all victims of violence agree with this. like the general population, victims have mixed views on the issue. two columbine survivors serve as state legislators, one in Washington and the other in Colorado, and both are NRA A rated.
And I sure do look forward to eight more years of hysterical delusions regarding emails and Benghazi and the Clinton Foundation and Vince Foster and Cattlegate and Filegate and Travelgate and the Rose Law Firm. I'm getting tired of never went to college, married to his male college roommate, hates America, hates the military, hates whites, hates the police, is destroying America, bows down to every foreign leader he meets, wasn't born in the US, terrorist sympathizer (Frumpy all but explicitly said that today), lies all the times, stutters all the time, secret Muslim, etc , etc. We need some new entertainment.

None of these are related to the issue at hand.
 

EMNofSeattle

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Yes you do. Even if restrictions are tighter in one state than another there is nothing to stop guns being brought across state lines. Even a felon can simply buy a gun second hand no questions asked

It is illegal in all 50 states for a felon to purchase a firearm unless their rights have been restored. second hand or otherwise.

It is also illegal to traffick guns across state lines.
 

Crimefree

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Yeah, I'm sure he could have killed 49 people and seriously wounded dozens more … with a butter knife.

So you gun NUTS are content with a system that allowed this NUT who was twice investigated by the FBI for terrorist connections … to go to the local gun shop, by an assault rifle, and load up with lots of ammunition. Of course. He had a clear constitutional right to … "protect himself," or go "rabbit hunting," or "enjoy some target practice."

As far as I'm concerned, ya better pull yer head out of it before it's someone you care about that gets ripped into by a few of these charming items.


I don't wanna ban guns. Not even close. I want gun nuts who block efforts to make it more difficult for mass murderers to purchase killing machines … to suffer the way the victims of gun violence and their families suffer.

And I sure do look forward to eight more years of hysterical delusions regarding emails and Benghazi and the Clinton Foundation and Vince Foster and Cattlegate and Filegate and Travelgate and the Rose Law Firm. I'm getting tired of never went to college, married to his male college roommate, hates America, hates the military, hates whites, hates the police, is destroying America, bows down to every foreign leader he meets, wasn't born in the US, terrorist sympathizer (Frumpy all but explicitly said that today), lies all the times, stutters all the time, secret Muslim, etc , etc. We need some new entertainment.

With your infallible logic could you explain how making it IMPOSSIBLE (cant be more difficult than that) for people to legally purchase drugs why they are freely available in every nook of every city? I really am looking forward to reading your explanation of why guns will work when drugs, alcohol, pornography, explosives and host of other things have not. What have gun control advocates got that makes them super brains with this all figured out?
 

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It is illegal in all 50 states for a felon to purchase a firearm unless their rights have been restored. second hand or otherwise.

So why does your FBI claim second hand purchases are the primary method by which felons acquire firearms ?

It is also illegal to traffick guns across state lines.

Who's checking then ?
 

Crimefree

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Yes you do. Even if restrictions are tighter in one state than another there is nothing to stop guns being brought across state lines. Even a felon can simply buy a gun second hand no questions asked

Thats pretty much unrestricted access in my view

And restricted access will do what? Note proof needed for any claim.
 
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