If Harris Loses, Should Democrats Move Right?

[Mach]

I'd say the biggest factors if Democrats lose are:

- Biden's choice to run again
- Trump's charisma
- right wing propaganda

I don't see how any of those would indicate a need for "soul searching" except on the "don't keep a guy that old as the nominee", and that's on DNC/Biden, not on the voters.
I'm interested to hear what others would guess.

If Republicans lose, I think it's obvious why, and I think given the disconnect between reality and their media/propaganda, soul searching is a thing of the past.
Republican establishment was always just along for the ride, and they have their court picks and tax cuts, so the got what they wanted and Harris can't undo SCOTUS on abortion.

 

[mrdeltoid]

Clinton called it triangulation. Campaign left on issues in the primary for the base, then move right for the evangelical issues, then toward the center in the general to lock down moderates. In layman’s terms, say anything to get elected, then do what you want to keep your donors happy. Harris is doing it pretty well

 

[Along Came Jones]

Whites are not a minority.

Here's a chart.

...xxx
View attachment 67538998

US population by year, race, age, ethnicity, & more

The ages, races, and population density of the United States tell a story. Understand the shifts in demographic trends with these charts visualizing decades of population data.

usafacts.org

Want a clue how convoluted is your chart? Just one example, how many White people also define themselves as Hispanic/Latino? How many enrolled First People carry more "white" genetic material than indigenous DNA? How many in the categories are actually more than one race or ethnicity but choose something other than mixed race? The whole "sistema de castas" is arbitrary. Our preferred lineage is self-defined as we fit ourselves into it according to government provided categories.

And the biggest reductive lump is how many "people of color" are there as compared to "White" people?

 

[marduc]

If this election means there is a rubber stamp where one side has lopsided power, it will self correct next cycle.

The burning question is how much pissing off of the oppositional populace will happen in that 2 to 4 year interim to instigate the self correction.

 

[iguanaman]

To a point.

I think they should tell us who they actually are, because that’s what we get stuck with if they get elected. Not what they want us to believe they are.

So Trump should fess up and admit that Project 2025 is really his agenda and has been that way all along? Trump lies about everything and "who he is" changes from hour to hour. I do think that is disqualifying in any real world but so many are not anywhere near that. Maga's have given up their free will and no longer care about our sacred freedoms.

 

[iguanaman]

If this election means there is a rubber stamp where one side has lopsided power, it will self correct next cycle.

The burning question is how much pissing off of the oppositional populace will happen in that 2 to 4 year interim to instigate the self correction.

What makes you think there will be another election if Trump wins? We know he is not likely to give up power willingly and who will stop him from declaring himself President for life?

 

[CLAX1911]

I think generally must Democrat voters are pretty moderate.

 

[Along Came Jones]

What makes you think there will be another election if Trump wins? We know he is not likely to give up power willingly and who will stop him from declaring himself President for life?

Nothing can stop Trump (or Harris) from declaring himself/herself President for life. Declarations are easy enough to make. An hour after a new President is sworn into office, she/he orders the pretender to vacate the office and if refused forcibly evicts him/her. Done.

 

[Fletch]

Trumpist and Nazi are pretty samey so I really don't care if you feel victimized by it.

When you equate Trumpism with Nazism, everyone is victimized by that level of ignorance and dishonesty

 

[marduc]

What makes you think there will be another election if Trump wins? We know he is not likely to give up power willingly and who will stop him from declaring himself President for life?

I purposely did not speak of that scenario and was deliberate in my response.

I am not willing to speculate on that question right now, although I concede that it is a possibility.

I desperately want to have faith in our government and it's foundational plinths, but I will go on the record to say that I am concerned over how eroded that foundation might be and how it could be severely tested.

 

[Manc Skipper]

They're already center-right as it is. More fash isn't going to work.

 

[Manc Skipper]

When you equate Trumpism with Nazism, everyone is victimized by that level of ignorance and dishonesty

Trump's ignorance and dishonesty are legend, They force his supporters to follow his fascist lead.

 

[Fletch]

Trump's ignorance and dishonesty are legend, They force his supporters to follow his fascist lead.

Whataboutism.

 

[Along Came Jones]

I purposely did not speak of that scenario and was deliberate in my response.

I am not willing to speculate on that question right now, although I concede that it is a possibility.

I desperately want to have faith in our government and it's foundational plinths, but I will go on the record to say that I am concerned over how eroded that foundation might be and how it could be severely tested.

This is far from the first time we've faced down foundational challenges. We've adapted and overcome. One bit of evidence is the ratification of the 22nd Amendment limiting a President to two terms of office. Had Roosevelt's health been better he might well have been elected to a fifth consecutive term.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

This is far from the first time we've faced down foundational challenges. We've adapted and overcome. One bit of evidence is the ratification of the 22nd Amendment limiting a President to two terms of office. Had Roosevelt's health been better he might well have been elected to a fifth consecutive term.

Winning multiple elections....is not the same as......refusing to leave office via coup.

That is the dumbest comparison to-night.

 

[Along Came Jones]

Winning multiple elections....is not the same as......refusing to leave office via coup.

That is the dumbest comparison to-night.

Well, so you say. Magazines and newspapers of the era, most of which people here will not know ever existed, routinely labeled FDR a self-anointed King, dictator, despot and much worse. Of course, the historically deprived might overlook the similarities. I'll settle for being your kind of dumb. Don't mean nothing.

 

[Phys251]

The Democrat part has moved SO far left in just the last 10 or 15 years as to be unrecognizable.

The Democratic party--get the spelling right, please--has steadily moved to the economic right over the last few decades. They are the conservative party now, and the Republican party is the fascist party.

 

[Gardener]

The Democratic party--get the spelling right, please--has steadily moved to the economic right over the last few decades. They are the conservative party now, and the Republican party is the fascist party.

There is nothing Democratic about them anymore.

Heck, even the Manchurian candidate they are running is hand selected instead of being voted on by the people.

 

[cpwill]

If Harris loses and Trump finalizes that the GOP will be remade in his image, Classic Liberalism will be up for grabs. The Democrats would be wise to grab it, and let the GOP become the party of abusive autocrat-worship.

 

[Phys251]

There is nothing Democratic about them anymore.

Heck, even the Manchurian candidate they are running is hand selected instead of being voted on by the people.

You mean the candidate that was hand-selected by the electoral college in 2016 instead of the will of the people? I didn't think so.

One way or another this is the last election Trump is going to be in. No, I don't mean he's going to outlaw elections, but he'll term out if he wins and in any case he'll be 82 in 2028.

Unless the Democrats come to the center and broaden their appeal they'll lose in a landslide to a reasonable Republican candidate once they can no longer be Not Trump.

You assume that the Repub base will return to wanting a sane candidate in 2028. They had one in Nikki Haley and kicked her to the curb. Nothing suggests they are going to right the ship.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

Well, so you say.

Wait, lets get this straight, a coup, the illegal seizure of power, is not the same as winning an election. They are very different things, you might need to review these subjects if you have questions about the differences.

Magazines and newspapers of the era, most of which people here will not know ever existed, routinely labeled FDR a self-anointed King, dictator, despot and much worse.

I'm fairly aware of what critics (Coughlin, Lindberg et al) said about FDR, but again, his winning the elections against Hoover, Landon and Willkie were not coups, no matter what his critics say. It just is not reality. You can operate in a fantasy world, but I wouldn't recommend it.

Of course, the historically deprived might overlook the similarities.

You have not posted one thing that is the same between a coup and winning an election.
I think the issue is being poli-sci deprived.

I'll settle for being your kind of dumb. Don't mean nothing.

Says the poster who equated a coup with winning an election. Coups are often the result of losing or not being able to win an election, nearly opposites.

 

[Along Came Jones]

The Democratic party--get the spelling right, please--has steadily moved to the economic right over the last few decades. They are the conservative party now, and the Republican party is the fascist party.

Why do you claim that the Democratic Party has steadily moved to the economic right over the last few decades? Curious to know.

Re: The Democratic party--get the spelling right, please

I recently made two mistakes, one a typo and the other a brain disruption. The first was caught and pointed out. The second no one has mentioned . . . yet. I.e. "In this first quarter of the 22nd Century . . ." Whoops. Maybe I thought time really does slip into the future.

 

[Phys251]

Why do you claim that the Democratic Party has steadily moved to the economic right over the last few decades? Curious to know.

America as a whole has gone to the right over the last few decades, and the Democratic party has gone from, for example, unions as a core value to only some candidates having support for unions. And then there's the matter of restoring the Nixon and Eisenhower top tax rates, which were MUCH higher than under the "communist" Obama.

This is why Bernie garnered such grassroots support. He wanted to take us back to those kinds of values.

Re: The Democratic party--get the spelling right, please

I recently made two mistakes, one a typo and the other a brain disruption. The first was caught and pointed out. The second no one has mentioned . . . yet. I.e. "In this first quarter of the 22nd Century . . ." Whoops. Maybe I thought time really does slip into the future.

You knew what you were doing. Get it right--it's the Democratic party. Unless you want us calling the other side the Rethuglican party...

 

[Gimmesometruth]

Why do you claim that the Democratic Party has steadily moved to the economic right over the last few decades? Curious to know.

The shift to neo-liberalism, especially by the Clinton admin was a large part of the abandonment of FDR liberalism, which was the regulating of banking and the full-on adoption of Keynes style macro-economics

 

[Along Came Jones]

Wait, lets get this straight, a coup, the illegal seizure of power, is not the same as winning an election. They are very different things, you might need to review these subjects if you have questions about the differences.

I'm fairly aware of what critics (Coughlin, Lindberg et al) said about FDR, but again, his winning the elections against Hoover, Landon and Willkie were not coups, no matter what his critics say. It just is not reality. You can operate in a fantasy world, but I wouldn't recommend it.

You have not posted one thing that is the same between a coup and winning an election.
I think the issue is being poli-sci deprived.

Says the poster who equated a coup with winning an election. Coups are often the result of losing or not being able to win an election, nearly opposites.

And you've not established that any coup was attempted.

The academic charge being tossed around is that Trump attempted a self-coup. That is an allegation you and many others believe and remains unproven.

Since you understand the era so well, why did Congress believe the 22nd Amendment was necessary? On the face of it, the amendment disallows voters to democratically elect the president of their choice.