If guns make us safer.....

[vegas giants]

And what exactly would that "good answer" be to my question as why we should separate one race from the rest when considering crime rates?

The largest category is men but they will never look at that. Also poor people rank very high. But they want to focus on race....I wonder why?

 

[TurtleDude]

Then why not support legislation that deals with the problems that actually cause murder? Rather than something that has been shown to have no correlation at all?

because harassing gun owners is the goal and when that stupid law fails-as the other ones have, they can demand yet another restriction

 

[vegas giants]

because harassing gun owners is the goal and when that stupid law fails-as the other ones have, they can demand yet another restriction

Yes. Every time a legal gun owner is harrassed and angel gets his wings. LOL

 

[blackjack50]

The largest category is men but they will never look at that. Also poor people rank very high. But they want to focus on race....I wonder why?

Why are men more likely to commit murder? I will examine that. Who said we wouldn't? Women are far less likely to commit murder. Do you think that is nature or nurture? Culture or ingrained? A bit of both?

The crowd is not the sum of its parts.

I am a republican who did not vote for Trump (Or Hillary).

 

[vegas giants]

Why are men more likely to commit murder? I will examine that. Who said we wouldn't? Women are far less likely to commit murder. Do you think that is nature or nurture? Culture or ingrained? A bit of both?

I think it is likely a bit of both. But I would never endorse gun control aimed only at men

 

[Rucker61]

(emphasis added for my question)

Are you really endorsing two different sets of laws for different races of people?

No. I'm suggesting that laws designed to reduce the numbers of homicide victims of gang and drug related activity are not the same laws designed to reduce suicide by gun. It just so happens that both of those categories have white, Black, Latino, Asian and Native Americian victims, but Black males are over-represented in the former and middle aged white men are over-represented in the latter.

If the goal is "reduce gun deaths", a law extending waiting periods will provide the most benefit to while males while not reducing deaths due to gang and drug activities at all, while a law to reduce deaths from gang activities like stop and frisk, if effective, will provide the most benefit to Black youths and men while not affecting the gun death rate of middle aged white men in any measurable way.

 

[haymarket]

The largest category is men but they will never look at that. Also poor people rank very high. But they want to focus on race....I wonder why?

What do you think is the answer to your own question?

 

[ttwtt78640]

And what exactly would that "good answer" be to my question as why we should separate one race from the rest when considering crime rates?

Race, IMHO, is not an important crime statistic but where (zip-code) and any prior record of the perp are important. Knowing where a crime problem is and who is more likely to commit it allows more targeted measures to help counter it.

 

[vegas giants]

What do you think is the answer to your own question?

I believe there is an underlying racism to it. For many it may even be unconscious. But it is very easy to blame all the black people for gun deaths. Easy....just not helpful

 

[haymarket]

No. I'm suggesting that laws designed to reduce the numbers of homicide victims of gang and drug related activity are not the same laws designed to reduce suicide by gun. It just so happens that both of those categories have white, Black, Latino, Asian and Native Americian victims, but Black males are over-represented in the former and middle aged white men are over-represented in the latter.

If the goal is "reduce gun deaths", a law extending waiting periods will provide the most benefit to while males while not reducing deaths due to gang and drug activities at all, while a law to reduce deaths from gang activities like stop and frisk, if effective, will provide the most benefit to Black youths and men while not affecting the gun death rate of middle aged white men in any measurable way.

I am sure you know that there are perhaps thousands upon thousands of laws on the books that never touch your life except in the most broad terms that you are a member of society. But laws are passed not for individuals or even for groups of individuals but to help create the society we want to live in. That applies to gun laws also.

Understand that, it is irrelevant if a particular gun law impacts one group of people while having no impact on a different group of people because that is the nature of legislation to begin with.

 

[blackjack50]

I think it is likely a bit of both. But I would never endorse gun control aimed only at men

You don't have to. You can simply learn what motivates someone to commit murder. We already know multiple risk factors. Alcohol is a huge factor. As are drugs. Addiction. Criminal records for the victims is common. What does that say about the average murder in terms of psychology?

The crowd is not the sum of its parts.

I am a republican who did not vote for Trump (Or Hillary).

 

[haymarket]

I believe there is an underlying racism to it. For many it may even be unconscious. But it is very easy to blame all the black people for gun deaths. Easy....just not helpful

Are you saying that there are those who believe that certain races simply cannot handle the freedom of gun ownership while others can and it is race which is that determine factor?

 

[vegas giants]

Are you saying that there are those who believe that certain races simply cannot handle the freedom of gun ownership while others can and it is race which is that determine factor?

Yes I am saying that. It has certainly been implied here many times

 

[haymarket]

Race, IMHO, is not an important crime statistic but where (zip-code) and any prior record of the perp are important. Knowing where a crime problem is and who is more likely to commit it allows more targeted measures to help counter it.

Are you advocating we pass one set of laws for people who live in certain codes and a different set of laws for people who live in other zip codes?

 

[Rucker61]

I am sure you know that there are perhaps thousands upon thousands of laws on the books that never touch your life except in the most broad terms that you are a member of society. But laws are passed not for individuals or even for groups of individuals but to help create the society we want to live in. That applies to gun laws also.

Understand that, it is irrelevant if a particular gun law impacts one group of people while having no impact on a different group of people because that is the nature of legislation to begin with.

It's relevant if the measure of success is dependent upon its effect on the group of people that it won't have any effect upon. It would be ineffective for the city of East St Louis to pass a law to create waiting periods for legal purchases of firearms in order to reduce deaths due to gang activity. Anti's need to understand how to actually understand problems and solutions with respect to gun laws.

 

[Rucker61]

Are you advocating we pass one set of laws for people who live in certain codes and a different set of laws for people who live in other zip codes?

Don't we have that now?

 

[haymarket]

Yes I am saying that. It has certainly been implied here many times

But that would clearly be a racist belief would it not?

 

[Rucker61]

Are you saying that there are those who believe that certain races simply cannot handle the freedom of gun ownership while others can and it is race which is that determine factor?

Most of the homicides in over-represented demographics are committed by perps who can't legally own a firearm, so the "freedom of gun ownership" doesn't apply.

 

[vegas giants]

But that would clearly be a racist belief would it not?

Yes it would. For some I think it is not intentional...but racist nonetheless

 

[haymarket]

Don't we have that now?

If you are referring to municipal codes which apply only to certain cities - of course we do. But I think in this case we are talking about one set of people subject to laws which take a far different view of their constitutional rights than a different set of people and race or where they live would be a determining factor.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Are you advocating we pass one set of laws for people who live in certain codes and a different set of laws for people who live in other zip codes?

No I am saying that LEOs should be deployed to where more crime occurs just as we (hopefully) don't deploy many game wardens to downtown shopping malls.

 

[Rucker61]

If you are referring to municipal codes which apply only to certain cities - of course we do. But I think in this case we are talking about one set of people subject to laws which take a far different view of their constitutional rights than a different set of people and race or where they live would be a determining factor.

I don't think that we are. We are acknowledging that certain zip codes or other sub-geographies have disparate levels of crime in comparison to other geographies or the country as a whole, and that in looking at those sub-geographies we see that that disparity originates in a disparate percentage of prohibited persons possessing and using firearms in crimes. I don't think it's a surprise to note that some races have a higher percentage of felons than others for whatever reasons such as socio-economic limtitations and a biased legal system, and those races also tend to be victimized by gun violence at a higher rate than races/zip codes/etc. that don't have higher rates of felons.

It isn't the Right who is asking for more gun laws.

When we look are where laws

 

[jaeger19]

yesy...yes....everyone hates you shooting at paper targets and is coming to get you. LOL

haven't you heard from your friend flogger? Everyone that owns a gun is a bloodthirsty killer that want to go Rambo in your community and must be stopped. LOL

 

[jaeger19]

No I am saying that LEOs should be deployed to where more crime occurs just as we (hopefully) don't deploy many game wardens to downtown shopping malls.

the only problem with such things is that there is a potential issue that the reason that more areas may "have more crime".. is because more police are being deployed to this area, then the more crime they find.

 

[ttwtt78640]

the only problem with such things is that there is a potential issue that the reason that more areas may "have more crime".. is because more police are being deployed to this area, then the more crime they find.

That may result in more reported crime or even more arrests but not more crime victims. You can be a crime victim whether the police record it, investigate it or make an arrest or not.