"If guns make us safe... [W:17, 106]

[Phil_Osophy]

"Then why isn't the USA the safest place on earth?"

The answer: because we are the most free on earth and freedom is dangerous.

 

[CalGun]

re: "If guns make us safe... [W:18]

Guns don't make us safe. They do make me safe.

"Then why isn't the USA the safest place on earth?"

The answer: because we are the most free on earth and freedom is dangerous.

 

[joko104]

re: "If guns make us safe... [W:18]

Guns do not make a person safe. There are circumstances where they give a person a chance of survival where otherwise the person would not have a chance. Guns also tend to prevent violence occurring in the first place.

 

[Phil_Osophy]

re: "If guns make us safe... [W:18]

Think of America as an estate with several acres of land, mostly forest. It has a garage full of tools and wood and all kinds of things. Think of the government as parents. Think of their child as a citizen. They could lock the child in his room and impose all kinds of rules on him. He will be safe, but his life would be much more fulfilling if he were allowed to run the woods, explore, build a tree house, etc. The difference between this allegory and real life is that the citizen has the power to put the government in line.

 

[Goshin]

re: "If guns make us safe... [W:18]

The US actually has less crime than a lot of countries, including Britain, which a recent study pegged as having 4x the violent crime rate as the USA. Granted, some differences in reporting and classifying violent crime may affect those numbers, but it is still significant. A British expat living in America said one of the most surprising things was how safe he felt on the streets in comparison to London... and he attributed it to two things: less tolerance for drunken hooliganism, and personal firearms for protection.

 

[Harshaw]

re: "If guns make us safe... [W:18]

The US actually has less crime than a lot of countries, including Britain, which a recent study pegged as having 4x the violent crime rate as the USA. Granted, some differences in reporting and classifying violent crime may affect those numbers, but it is still significant. A British expat living in America said one of the most surprising things was how safe he felt on the streets in comparison to London... and he attributed it to two things: less tolerance for drunken hooliganism, and personal firearms for protection.

Canada has more than twice our violent crime rate, too.

 

[Guy Incognito]

re: "If guns make us safe... [W:18]

"Then why isn't the USA the safest place on earth?"

The answer: because we are the most free on earth and freedom is dangerous.

You're absolutely right, freedom is dangerous. Guns are dangerous, most of all to the gun owners themselves. Free people have a right to do stupid, dangerous things like own guns, do drugs, visit prostitutes, and all sorts of things no decent person would contemplate. That's freedom!

 

[Guy Incognito]

re: "If guns make us safe... [W:18]

Guns also tend to prevent violence occurring in the first place.

This has been empirically proven to be false.

 

[Goshin]

re: "If guns make us safe... [W:18]

You're absolutely right, freedom is dangerous. Guns are dangerous, most of all to the gun owners themselves. Free people have a right to do stupid, dangerous things like own guns, do drugs, visit prostitutes, and all sorts of things no decent person would contemplate. That's freedom!

So no decent person would own a gun? I guess that means you're saying I'm not a decent person, right?

 

[Guy Incognito]

re: "If guns make us safe... [W:18]

So no decent person would own a gun? I guess that means you're saying I'm not a decent person, right?

You can probably work that out on your own.

 

[MaggieD]

re: "If guns make us safe... [W:18]

"Then why isn't the USA the safest place on earth?"

The answer: because we are the most free on earth and freedom is dangerous.

New Zealand is actually "the safest place on earth." Their homicide rate is 12.1 per one million population. That compares (using the same ratio) to our murder rate of 47 per one million. They are not allowed hand guns without a special reason for use. Self-defense is not considered a reason. No automatic weapons; no semi-automatic weapons.

Hmmmm....

 

[Goshin]

re: "If guns make us safe... [W:18]

You can probably work that out on your own.

Yeah. Love you too.

 

[Guy Incognito]

re: "If guns make us safe... [W:18]

Yeah. Love you too.

We all have bad habits we need to give up:shrug:

 

[Goshin]

re: "If guns make us safe... [W:18]

New Zealand is actually "the safest place on earth." Their homicide rate is 12.1 per one million population. That compares (using the same ratio) to our murder rate of 47 per one million. They are not allowed hand guns without a special reason for use. Self-defense is not considered a reason. No automatic weapons; no semi-automatic weapons.

Hmmmm....

Apples and oranges. Lots of places with strict gun laws are FAR more violent than the USA.


Mexico, for instance... it is practically impossible to privately own a gun, legally, unless you're connected (and rich). Yet we know their violent crime rates are horrific.



Too many other factors are more significant to make these international comparisons substantive.

 

[Phil_Osophy]

re: "If guns make us safe... [W:18]

Yes. Freedom is dangerous. Would you rather live free and have a fulfilling life of your own choices, facing your own consequences or live at the whims of the government and others who disagree with your choices? Owning a gun alone doesn't hurt anybody. There is potential for harm, but potential for harm exists in all things. Like owning an oven, a car, even having hands that can make a fist.

 

[MaggieD]

re: "If guns make us safe... [W:18]

Apples and oranges. Lots of places with strict gun laws are FAR more violent than the USA.


Mexico, for instance... it is practically impossible to privately own a gun, legally, unless you're connected (and rich). Yet we know their violent crime rates are horrific.



Too many other factors are more significant to make these international comparisons substantive.

Excellent point. Thanks.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

re: "If guns make us safe... [W:18]

Moderator's Warning:

Knock off the baiting.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

re: "If guns make us safe... [W:17]

You're absolutely right, freedom is dangerous. Guns are dangerous, most of all to the gun owners themselves. Free people have a right to do stupid, dangerous things like own guns, do drugs, visit prostitutes, and all sorts of things no decent person would contemplate. That's freedom!

Just an FYI. This is a begging the question logical fallacy. Thought you'd like to know.

 

[Guy Incognito]

re: "If guns make us safe... [W:17, 106]

Just an FYI. This is a begging the question logical fallacy. Thought you'd like to know.

It might be if it were an argument. But it's merely a conclusory statement.

So, you're wrong.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

re: "If guns make us safe... [W:17, 106]

It might be if it were an argument. But it's merely a conclusory statement.

So, you're wrong.

Well, since your conclusionary statement was illogical, it was wrong as well.

 

[year2late]

Re: "If guns make us safe... [W:18]

Apples and oranges. Lots of places with strict gun laws are FAR more violent than the USA.


Mexico, for instance... it is practically impossible to privately own a gun, legally, unless you're connected (and rich). Yet we know their violent crime rates are horrific.



Too many other factors are more significant to make these international comparisons substantive.

Yeah, they probably get them from us in trade for drugs.:roll:

 

[Guy Incognito]

re: "If guns make us safe... [W:17, 106]

Well, since your conclusionary statement was illogical, it was wrong as well.

I don't think you really understand how logic works. You see, since there is no argument, then talk of logical fallacies in applicable.

With a single conclusion without argument, the real question is whether it is true or false, not logical or illogical.

My conclusory statement is precisely as logical as saying "The sky is blue" without supporting premises.

I blame Mr. Spock's casual misuse of the word "logical" for the rampant misuse of the word among people who, like CaptainCourtesy, have never studied formal logic.

 

[Goshin]

Re: "If guns make us safe... [W:18]

Yeah, they probably get them from us in trade for drugs.:roll:

A lot of them yes. Others from other countries also. The point is that the primary ingredients there are the drug trade, poverty, and a corrupt and ineffective gov't. Those are the primary components for a severe murder rate... regardless of gun laws, or lack thereof.

 

[Phil_Osophy]

re: "If guns make us safe... [W:17, 106]

It seems politicians would rather just blame guns, pass a new gun law and say "problem solved" and call it a day, instead of actually tackling the real issues and going to the source of the problem. Let's just stick a bandaid on top of a bullet hole. No need to take the bullet out or clean the wound. Nobody will know the difference.

 

[year2late]

Re: "If guns make us safe... [W:18]

A lot of them yes. Others from other countries also. The point is that the primary ingredients there are the drug trade, poverty, and a corrupt and ineffective gov't. Those are the primary components for a severe murder rate... regardless of gun laws, or lack thereof.

And a well stocked and available arsenal on the US side.