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ICE raids across L.A. spark backlash; Trump officials vow to continue operations

Hmm. Interesting you post this.
You also posted this:

Isn't it a really, really fine line between impeding and hindering?
To me it seems that the two are synonyms of each other.
My comment was about the effect of not notifying ICE, in that it hinders them “in a way.” That’s it. But not reporting is far different than say, what some are attempting in Los Angeles and elsewhere, like physical obstruction of ICE. And again, balance ICE’s mission to deport those here illegally against the city’s or state’s interest (greater and more defensible in my view) in seeing crimes reported and perps prosecuted.

This is similar in a way to what I have posited here on DP about asylum seekers, in that dealing with them in accord with law and treaty can be in tension with the right the country has to control entry.

There is some black and white in immigration issues, but plenty of shades of gray as well.
 
It's the opinion of quite a few people, including conservatives. The fact that you don't comprehend the severity of events doesn't mean they weren't severe; it just means that you don't get it, or refuse to consider the possibility.



"Exactly nothing"? How about sedition? They were convicted/pled guilty. Also, they led the initial charge. And they brought weapons like bear spray to this spontaneous, peaceful protest. Bears must be all over D.C.



Normally, kangaroo courts don't have hundreds of hours of video evidence of crimes.

trumpies in congress made it political when they refused to participate unless Jim Jordan could muck up the investigation. But Jordan was neck deep in the mess, so he couldn't really be one of the investigators, could he? There were good Republicans on the Committee who were determined to do the right thing and investigate an attack on the Capitol. ANY decent congressman should have wanted to uncover what happened (trumpie congressmen ran and hid like the rest of them during the attack), but not trumpies - wonder why that was?



You are omitting the planning that led up to the attack. It was NOT just a peaceful protest that got out of hand. You don't bring bear spray to a peaceful protest.



It's a pointless exercise for you, because you know you would lose - badly.



Your politically motivated rejection of any and all viewpoints that don't match yours is noted.

Lawyers are generally pretty adept at recognizing all things lawless, because it's their job. What is your qualification for dismissing their expertise?



I would love to hear what kind of editing you think could possibly exonerate the rioters. Maybe you would show security footage of Jan. 5th as their defense lawyer?
Since we were robbed of justice i think we shouldnt care about robbing trumpies of justice.
 
My comment was about the effect of not notifying ICE, in that it hinders them “in a way.” That’s it. But not reporting is far different than say, what some are attempting in Los Angeles and elsewhere, like physical obstruction of ICE. And again, balance ICE’s mission to deport those here illegally against the city’s or state’s interest (greater and more defensible in my view) in seeing crimes reported and perps prosecuted.

This is similar in a way to what I have posited here on DP about asylum seekers, in that dealing with them in accord with law and treaty can be in tension with the right the country has to control entry.

There is some black and white in immigration issues, but plenty of shades of gray as well.
A thoroughly reasonable post, well argued and thought out....

so completely ineffective. :LOL:
 
If illegal had any meaning in the United States Taco would be in jail.

Who is "Taco?" Is he part of the insurrection?

Sounds kind of racist. But then democrats are racist to the bone.

Cafeteria crime selection is the best. You don’t disappoint. Also the dems aren’t my party.

ROFl

Yeah, there are no democrats, especially among the more virulent sycophants - just ask them..

It’s just the lesser of two evils. Say no to rewriting our constitution with project 2025.

Oh, lying about Project 2025 - does that get you brownie points from your collapsing party?
 
If I may be so bold, as the Nazarene said, “he who has ears to hear, let him hear.”
Hear, hear. Sadly, an inapt description. I did, however, legitimately appreciate the effort. But, you know, pearls and swine and all.
 
Now change riots to acts of terroristic violence and mass shootings and see where the numbers go.

Where do they go?

Last 5 mass shootings I can think of were done by "Trans activists."

Even with the redefinition fallacy that collapses the lie Ikari was telling, you still fail.
 
There is a difference between impeding an investigation and not calling ICE.

What Bass is doing is obstructing justice - not allowing ICE access to jails. It's a felony.

I know, not up there with signing an NDA, but still a federal felony.
 
The Jan. 6th Commission wasn't a trial, it was an investigation and a presentation of what they found.
The Jan 6th Commission was a show trial controlled by the Democrats. Nancy Pelosi handpicked two RINOs to be on it (both of who where subsequently rejected by their constituents). It was a 100% kangaroo court that hid evidence that went against the Democrat party narrative
 
They were trying to overthrow a fair election on Jan 6th. Nothing like that is happening in LA. How do you draw a circle around the square?

Nobody was charged with "Insurrection" on Jan 6 because the facts did not support it.
The claim of an 'insurrection' that day was simply a political narrative.

People were charged with "seditious conspiracy" on Jan 6 specifically conspiring to use force to "oppose any law" of the USA.

There should not be a great deal of difficulty in finding people who have worked together to use force to oppose the USA immigration law in these recent riots.
 
No, I'm not talking about the actions being taken, I'm talking about the collision course which was set with the first declaration of Sanctuary.
It set the locale declaring such on an inevitable collision course with those who want to have existing immigration laws enforced, clearly.
Now that collision course has reached its head, and we get to see how it all unfolds from here.

That unfolding is the president ordering in the NG. It is the local government
It is the public funded NGOs promoting, supporting, endorsing the protests, and being relatively quiet about the rioting.
It is the MSM claiming the same old 'Mostly Peaceful riots' - this time, rather than a burning building in the background, Minneapolis, it's a burning car.

Whether you want to realize it, or not, that collision course was set with first declaration of Sanctuary, and it was only a matter of time before it came to this head.

Nonsense.

This is a matter of Constitutional Law.

Clinton, Obama, Biden all deported more, to little fanfare.

This is a Trump problem. It only occurs under him.
 
It's not rooted in "my guy good, your guy bad." It's rooted in "your guy is acting like an authoritarian, and here are the reasons why."
Some calling another "authoritarian" is their subjective opinion. 🤷‍♂️
opinions are like assholes, right?

The same goes for his indictments. Those things all had to go through the normal process - grand jury, etc. - to get to the point they got to. There is evidence of crimes committed by trump, period. Purely political grievances don't get far in the courts.
Except NY State courts, apparently.
Have you forgotten the unique 'legal theories' on which that case was prosecuted?
Have you forgotten the unique approach of stacking lesser crimes to elevate the charge to a felony?
Have you forgotten that those unique 'legal theories' were not, and have not, been used on anyone else besides Trump?
Have you forgotten the meeting between the prosecution and the White House?
Have you forgotten the reassignment to a lesser position of prosecutor staffing from federal to state office specifically for this prosecution?
It was a pretty clear case of political targeting.

Seems like you've forgotten (ignoring) a great many things tainting this prosecution.

These things should tell you something, right there. But that it doesn't leads one to conclude that your partisan blinders are on and firmly in place.

"Firmly in control" is on the authoritarian spectrum. That's why we look at things he has done and compare them to previous presidents to make a determination.
A subjective look at what previous presidents have done and comparing them to a subjective look at what this president has done.
At least you appear admit that this is all subjective.

It's also legitimate to compare trump's actions and words to other authoritarians when making a determination. Vilifying minority groups? Check. Using the military for domestic problems? Check. Attacking the judiciary? Check. Defying the judiciary? Incomplete, but headed in the "check" direction. Fomenting hatred in general? Double check.
These supposed 'checks' you are listed are all based on what? The Dem's compliant and complicit MSM propagandist reporting and their smear campaigns?
The pro-Dem, pro-left political activism and political bias of the MSM already well established. I can provide citations to this effect if you dispute this.
OK. Gotcha.

So what? Generals make up a tiny percentage of the military.
Not at all a reasonable analogy. Do protestors follow orders as soldiers are expected to?

And preparing weapons doesn't bother you? Do you think that was a random act? Don't you think that, had things gone slightly differently, they might have retrieved those weapons and used them?
Having your weapons in the trunk of your car is legal, and is not the same as pulling them out and using them.

Your take on this goes beyond naivete. You are making excuses for criminal behavior, because it's your team storming the Capitol.
I have made no excuses for that behavior. Those that trespassed, vandalized, should be charged with trespassing and vandalism, and they were.

The SC questioning the use of a particular statute is their job. It didn't happen often under Biden; it's happening constantly under trump.
Not so much SCOTUS, but the lower federal courts a constant thwarting of what the electorate voted for.
Biden had his fair share of court battles as well, you may have forgotten them, but they did happen, most notably the Student Debt Transfer program of his, multiple court cases, culminating in the Biden admin just doing it anyway.

I hardly think that erecting a fence around the Capitol after it was violently stormed is "going off the deep end."
It was an over reaction to a one and done riot. Recall that there were a number of attacks on the Capitol over history, most often from leftist groups. Google is your friend, you can look them up.
 
Who is "Taco?" Is he part of the insurrection?

Sounds kind of racist. But then democrats are racist to the bone.
Playing dumb. Nice!

ROFl

Yeah, there are no democrats, especially among the more virulent sycophants - just ask them..
Can’t say I know any to ask.

Oh, lying about Project 2025 - does that get you brownie points from your collapsing party?
Why is the playbook coming true then? Seems silly to call someone a liar over something you can plainly look into with your own eyes.

 
The Jan. 6th Commission wasn't a trial, it was an investigation and a presentation of what they found.
It was a Democrats carefully staged political spectacle specifically for political purposes and nothing more.
 
It most certainly shouldn't be controversial.
But many, maybe even most, on the left have now decided to go fully in on prioritizing those in our country illegally over U.S. citizens and fully in on deliberate (and even violent and destructive) opposition to the enforcement of federal immigration law.

At this point, many of us are left with the option of watching this play out - and the outcome will be a most important one.

I'm simply astounded, following our most recent presidential election and what we learned from the result of that election, that the left has chosen this particular battle as one to go all in on. To my thinking, it seems like an insane choice - maybe stemming from a place of disorganized and confused desperation.

Federalizing a state's national guard, against the Governor's expressed wishes, is it not controversial?

Sic'ing the Marines against the American People, is not controversial?

On what planet does this occur?
 
The right totally distorts how the left views the issue. They are saying what they think the left think without asking the left.

The left, especially in large cities, refuse to allocate municipal funds to do federal work. City officials, especially the police, feel it's extremely important the immigrant community feel comfortable approaching the police about crimes they witness etc. The right labels that as a sanctuary city protecting illegals and thwarting ICE. It's not the police will not help ICE but neither will they hinder them.

The left always decries violence in times of unrest. They never condone it and welcome arrests.
Complete and utter bullshit. I can point to numerous incidents of Democrat lawmakers encouraging violence. Do remember Maxine Waters encouraging folks to “get in people’s faces” and “get more confrontational”.

They also recognize and protect free speech even if they don't agree. The left can differentiate between a protester and rioter. The right chooses to characterize that as supporting the rioters. Although they are quick differentiate the peaceful protesters Jan 6th from the rioters and white supremacists from conservatives.
More bullshit. How about the Freddy Gray riots in Baltimore. Mayor Stephanie Rawlings-Blake (Democrat) said "we also gave those who wished to destroy space to do that as well."
The left does have empathy for those millions and millions in the country illegally. They recognize their contribution and hate to see them treated as criminals and frightened for their families. The right see that as being supportive of an open border.
They are criminals. They have violated immigration LAW.
The left absolutely supports the deportation and removal of anyone who has acted in a criminal way but also feel that Constitutional protections must be provided if America is to remain a country who believes in the rule of law.
Criminal like those that violate immigration law, correct?
Some on the left are extreme in their views on immigration and some on the right are hateful bigots ......but the majority are neither
 
Nobody was charged with "Insurrection" on Jan 6 because the facts did not support it.
The claim of an 'insurrection' that day was simply a political narrative.

People were charged with "seditious conspiracy" on Jan 6 specifically conspiring to use force to "oppose any law" of the USA.

There should not be a great deal of difficulty in finding people who have worked together to use force to oppose the USA immigration law in these recent riots.
Seems more like common sense to me. Trump asked everyone to be there and to go to the capital. If they would have got their hands on someone like pelosi they would have killed them. They wanted to hang Mike pence to keep him from certifying the election. They put forward fake electors to put up for when this happened. Luckily it failed and Pence stepped up against all odds. What did you see?
 
A lot was already known before the committee was even formed. One of those things was that Jordan was in communication with the White House and had memory problems concerning those communications. They had good reason to believe that Jordan would have obstructed the investigation from within.
This is nothing more than politically self serving supposition.

There were plenty of other Republican congressmen McCarthy could have put on the committee that were not under suspicion. Why insist on Jordan?

The fact is that there were Republicans on the committee, and they investigated the events as they were obliged to do.
Dug some Trump hating GOPers wasn't hard to do. Of course that they were Trump hating GOPers was the primary requirement, and Pelosi's picks were exactly that.

And in doing so, they acted against their own political interests.

In court, testimony against your own interests is a good indicator of truthful testimony.
As you just got done pointing out, the House Select Committee wasn't a court.

First, you took the word of four FBI sources, not the whole FBI.
Did the 'whole FBI' comment on the case? Have fun proving that they did.

Second, that's a stale source from 2021, before the whole investigation had unfolded.
Stale or not, did the FBI's position change on that coordination? I don't think so.

People were tried for sedition, and convicted. Points for having a source, anyway.
Very few in comparison to the large number of cases, suffice it to say that the left's constant use of the overly broad brush applied to all those at the political demonstration / protest, as well as all Trump supporters isn't reasonable nor supportable.
 
Seems more like common sense to me. Trump asked everyone to be there and to go to the capital. If they would have got their hands on someone like pelosi they would have killed them. They wanted to hang Mike pence to keep him from certifying the election. They put forward fake electors to put up for when this happened. Luckily it failed and Pence stepped up against all odds. What did you see?

Shrug. Thats all political narrative.
What have you seen in LA? People thinking about throwing rocks, setting cars on fire?
Or actually doing it?
 
Well, this is about as politically one-sided a interpretation of those events as you could get, same as the entire 'House Select Committee' was.

Nonsense

It’s actually spot on and reality.

Your response is your classic projection and irony though.

All of your posts in this thread amount to projection, cherry picking and distortions.


I'll take the FBI's word over yours.

(continued)

The irony is indeed rich.

You’ll take the FBI’s word?

You’re seriously trying to use a long ago outdated article from August 2021.

A long ago outdated article which used anonymous sources. “according to four current and former law enforcement officials”.

And still can’t comprehend your own links.

The long ago outdated article from August 2021 that you’re still trying to peddle also clearly stated “at this point”. Shouldn’t be hard to comprehend that means as of August 2021, only seven months later.

Also shouldn’t be hard to comprehend that between August 2021 and now a lot more was was learned.

The majority of arrests hadn’t even taken place by August 2021.

But good to see you approve of anonymous sources even from almost four years ago when you think it can be spun to fit your bias.
 
Shrug. Thats all political narrative.
What have you seen in LA? People thinking about throwing rocks, setting cars on fire?
Or actually doing it?
I saw it on TV! I also sat for hours wondering when Trump was gonna do something about it. I sat. And sat. And sat. And watched more cops assaulted on TV. I’ve also watched hours of the current demonstrations on live streams. I did see a cop hit with a water bottle. Not to say violence didn’t happen but it’s very different than what I saw on Jan 6th.
 
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