I do not support or condone what happened at the Capitol today.

gbg3 · Jan 7, 2021

Ontologuy said:
None of which means anything.

Here's what means something:

1. 70 million Americans believe that there was massive election fraud.

2. They believe this because of the many, many eyewitness testimonies to said fraud.

3. Trump tried 50 or more times to file a complaint with the courts, all rejected on account of .. wait for it .. .. insufficient evidence.

4. Everyone knows that sufficient evidence could only be obtained via an investigation/audit into the ballots and policies of the six swing states in question.

5. The Democrats stonewall blockade thwarted every attempt by the federal government, Trump, to conduct that investigation/audit, as the Constitution does not provide for such kingly lording over states by the executive, only Congress by consensus can invoke such an investigation/audit.

6. So 70 million Americans believe there was election fraud, about which they're really pissed, and they now think justice will never be served, which makes them even more pissed ..

7. .. Pissed enough to go to war.

Now that's what means something.

Congress would be wise to conduct those investigations/audits ASAP .. if they don't want an even worse tragedy to occur than massive voter fraud.

I mean, what do they have to lose? If the investigation/audit determines there was no fraud, then great. But, if it does, yes, then you leftists will have to put up with four more years of Trump. But wouldn't that be a hell of a lot better than a civil war in your country?

I would think so.

Leftists in America are playing a dangerous game of Russian Roulette.

I'd put the revolver down, if I were them.

I agree with much of this. As I've said repeatedly since days after the election, 70 million Americans believing our elections can't be trusted is simply untenable for this nation. Congress would be very wise to conduct audits and the strong resistance from the left simply increases the level of mistrust even more. Why would everyone not want to get to the bottom of these questions?
I agree this is a very dangerous game. And, it would be so easy to calm it down. All it would take is cooperation and agreement to perform some reasonable audits.

SonOfDaedalus · Jan 7, 2021

Ontologuy said:
None of which means anything.

Here's what means something:

1. 70 million Americans believe that there was massive election fraud.

2. They believe this because of the many, many eyewitness testimonies to said fraud.

3. Trump tried 50 or more times to file a complaint with the courts, all rejected on account of .. wait for it .. .. insufficient evidence.

4. Everyone knows that sufficient evidence could only be obtained via an investigation/audit into the ballots and policies of the six swing states in question.

5. The Democrats stonewall blockade thwarted every attempt by the federal government, Trump, to conduct that investigation/audit, as the Constitution does not provide for such kingly lording over states by the executive, only Congress by consensus can invoke such an investigation/audit.

6. So 70 million Americans believe there was election fraud, about which they're really pissed, and they now think justice will never be served, which makes them even more pissed ..

7. .. Pissed enough to go to war.

Now that's what means something.

Congress would be wise to conduct those investigations/audits ASAP .. if they don't want an even worse tragedy to occur than massive voter fraud.

I mean, what do they have to lose? If the investigation/audit determines there was no fraud, then great. But, if it does, yes, then you leftists will have to put up with four more years of Trump. But wouldn't that be a hell of a lot better than a civil war in your country?

I would think so.

Leftists in America are playing a dangerous game of Russian Roulette.

I'd put the revolver down, if I were them.

Should we have a full investigation every time someone loses and claims fraud?

Trump's own DOJ looked into the claims and found nothing credible.

Trump's own cybersecurity chief found nothing.

Witnesses of witchcraft is how the Salem Witch Trials worked. The witnesses have to make claims that can be substantiated.

There is a process for raising objects to an election. Trump exhausted that process. The next step is to accept the result for the good of the country.

Again, this is not our first election. This is not our first hotly contested election. That's why we have procedures and rules for contesting elections and resolving disputes. Trump exhausted his options.

Moreover, what's surprising about a politician who was behind in the polls losing an election?

SonOfDaedalus · Jan 7, 2021

gbg3 said:
Why would everyone not want to get to the bottom of these questions?

That's how I felt about the Russia investigation.

Again, this is not our first election. This is not the first time fraud has been claimed. There are already procedures for dealing with such claims and Trump exhausted them.

Why should Trump get special treatment? Why is it unusual that a president who was behind in the polls should lose an election?

And the fact that Republicans lost last night in Georgia an election they desperately needed to win only proves how strong the Democrats are in Georgia. And if Trump can't win a red state like Georgia or even get his people to vote for two senators, why is it surprising he lost the election?

Geoist · Jan 7, 2021

Lutherf said:
I can't help but notice that your condemnation was greeted with the exact same crap the lefties always spew.

Don't make the same mistake the GOP has made over and over for the past 60 years. The left seeks one thing and one thing only. The want to DOMINATE the people of this nation and trying to appease them will serve no more purpose than Hindenberg and then Chamberlain trying to appease Hitler.

Your 'take no prisoners, they're all commies!' rhetoric is part of the problem.

Geoist · Jan 7, 2021

Ontologuy said:
I'm told there were ANTIFA people there today who were also seen at BLM riots.

^^Some people will swallow any bullshit that is fed to them online so long as it fits their worldview.

Ikari · Jan 7, 2021

Captain Adverse said:
Storming the Capitol is unconscionable!

It is one thing to protest peacefully, regardless of one's lean, views, biases, whatever. That is guaranteed by the First Amendment.

It is another thing to act out in destructive foolish violence. It was not right when the Left was doing it over the last several years, and it isn't when the Right does it as seen today in Washington!

I will always support peaceful actions to agree, disagree, debate, petition, vote, campaign, march, or otherwise show opposition.

But I will not tolerate mob violence from any side. Nor should anyone else. The instigators and participants have achieved NOTHING except to damage whatever they thought they were trying to say, prove, or show support for.

I condemn this with all my heart and mind.

If anything good can come of it, I hope that it is to spur the GOP to take a real hard look at itself and decide how it wants to go forward from here. More Trump? Or better quality candidates? We have to put up with Biden for 4 years, and with any luck the GOP will figure out how to get a competent, qualified, adult as a candidate come 2024.

Cordelier · Jan 7, 2021

Lutherf said:
I can't help but notice that your condemnation was greeted with the exact same crap the lefties always spew.

Don't make the same mistake the GOP has made over and over for the past 60 years. The left seeks one thing and one thing only. The want to DOMINATE the people of this nation and trying to appease them will serve no more purpose than Hindenberg and then Chamberlain trying to appease Hitler.

So I guess you're with the thugs then?

Look... I don't speak for the "left", but all I want is for our democratic system to work the way it's supposed to.

These wannabe brownshirts who stormed the US Capitol today didn't attack the left.... they attacked the United States. What's more, they were incited into doing so by a demented and depraved demagogue who has been feeding them a steady diet of conspiracy theories and baseless allegations that this election was anything but legitimate. If you want to find the Hitler demanding to be appeased here, look no further than the Oval Office.

Middle_Ground · Jan 7, 2021

I am firm believer in free speech, not destruction or violence but free speech. I watched a little of the armed insurrection today. It's sad I saw a lot of peaceful people with their Trump flags, their Confederate flags and their Trump gear just chanting and whatnot.
The assholes that stormed the capital building all should be arrested. But alas only 52 people were arrested with 1 shot dead and 3 others dead from who knows what.
Millions of people believed Trump was helped by Russia in the last election, no one stormed the capital, sure there were marches and speeches. Trump sure got his American carnage that he talked about in 2017.

Variant · Jan 7, 2021

Middle_Ground said:
I am firm believer in free speech, not destruction or violence but free speech. I watched a little of the armed insurrection today. It's sad I saw a lot of peaceful people with their Trump flags, their Confederate flags and their Trump gear just chanting and whatnot.
The assholes that stormed the capital building all should be arrested. But alas only 52 people were arrested with 1 shot dead and 3 others dead from who knows what.
Millions of people believed Trump was helped by Russia in the last election, no one stormed the capital, sure there were marches and speeches. Trump sure got his American carnage that he talked about in 2017.

It's almost like we have a half way decent system for deciding who gets to be president and how to investigate charges and such.

ataraxia · Jan 7, 2021

Ontologuy said:
None of which means anything.

Here's what means something:

1. 70 million Americans believe that there was massive election fraud.

2. They believe this because of the many, many eyewitness testimonies to said fraud.

3. Trump tried 50 or more times to file a complaint with the courts, all rejected on account of .. wait for it .. .. insufficient evidence.

4. Everyone knows that sufficient evidence could only be obtained via an investigation/audit into the ballots and policies of the six swing states in question.

5. The Democrats stonewall blockade thwarted every attempt by the federal government, Trump, to conduct that investigation/audit, as the Constitution does not provide for such kingly lording over states by the executive, only Congress by consensus can invoke such an investigation/audit.

6. So 70 million Americans believe there was election fraud, about which they're really pissed, and they now think justice will never be served, which makes them even more pissed ..

7. .. Pissed enough to go to war.

Now that's what means something.

Congress would be wise to conduct those investigations/audits ASAP .. if they don't want an even worse tragedy to occur than massive voter fraud.

I mean, what do they have to lose? If the investigation/audit determines there was no fraud, then great. But, if it does, yes, then you leftists will have to put up with four more years of Trump. But wouldn't that be a hell of a lot better than a civil war in your country?

I would think so.

Leftists in America are playing a dangerous game of Russian Roulette.

I'd put the revolver down, if I were them.

If you are going to take a case to court, you have to have evidence. You can’t go to court to get the evidence.

If I say Bob mudered my family, I have to be able to present evidence. If my family is in court saying Bob did no such thing, the court is going to throw my case out without a hearing.

These 70 million Americans are the same ones who spent 6 years waiting for Trump’s top people to tell them what they were really finding on Obama’s secret birth certificate, and not wearing masks because they believed Covid was just like the common cold and was going to disappear by April. They are a pretty hopeless bunch and will believe anything. I wouldn’t take it too seriously.

ataraxia · Jan 7, 2021

Variant said:
It's almost like we have a half way decent system for deciding who gets to be president and how to investigate charges and such.

Trump and his supporters have strained the entire system of the American Constitution to limits to which I am sure even the founding fathers themselves never imagined .

Lutherf · Jan 7, 2021

Cordelier said:
So I guess you're with the thugs then?

Look... I don't speak for the "left", but all I want is for our democratic system to work the way it's supposed to.

These wannabe brownshirts who stormed the US Capitol today didn't attack the left.... they attacked the United States. What's more, they were incited into doing so by a demented and depraved demagogue who has been feeding them a steady diet of conspiracy theories and baseless allegations that this election was anything but legitimate. If you want to find the Hitler demanding to be appeased here, look no further than the Oval Office.

The left doesn't want the political system to work the wat it's supposed to. They want the political system to work the way they want it to and they're willing to achieve that goal by any means necessary.

What these people in DC are so pissed off about is that government simply hasn't worked for them over the past four years. The FBI, CIA, NSA and DoJ conspired against Trump to overturn his presidency and NOBODY will be held accountable. Brett Kavanaugh was dragged through the streets and nobody was held accountable. Mike Flynn was railroaded and nobody was held accountable. Adam Schiff flat out made up a narrative about Ukraine even though call transcripts were in the public domain and, once again, nobody was held accountable. Rioters took over several cities across the country and nobody was held accountable.

Government won't hold itself accountable and the courts want nothing to do with any of this so there aren't a lot of other options left to the people. What happened yesterday may have been overdone in some ways but the target of the anger was dead on this time. I also think it's rather telling that the left wing motivated groups take out their anger on the general public, perhaps as a way to "teach" people that they need the government. The right wing protesters took their anger out on the government as a way to demand accountability.

This is the division in this nation right now. It isn't "Trump". It's a division between Americans that want an accountable government and Americans that want a dictatorial government.

Moderate Right · Jan 7, 2021

Captain Adverse said:
Storming the Capitol is unconscionable!

It is one thing to protest peacefully, regardless of one's lean, views, biases, whatever. That is guaranteed by the First Amendment.

It is another thing to act out in destructive foolish violence. It was not right when the Left was doing it over the last several years, and it isn't when the Right does it as seen today in Washington!

I will always support peaceful actions to agree, disagree, debate, petition, vote, campaign, march, or otherwise show opposition.

But I will not tolerate mob violence from any side. Nor should anyone else. The instigators and participants have achieved NOTHING except to damage whatever they thought they were trying to say, prove, or show support for.

I condemn this with all my heart and mind.

It does point out the hypocrisy though. The left want the police defunded and restrained in every city across America (especially when it relates to blacks) but want to be heavy handed during protests from the right. Imagine if Trump had been re-elected and these protesters were lefty protesters wanting to storm the capital (as they stormed and burned down police stations and federal buildings). Let's not forget the left did not want a federal court in Portland protected and accused Trump of inciting violence just for protecting federal property. Now imagine if these protesters here were lefties and the unarmed woman killed had been a black woman. All hell would have broken loose and press coverage would have been totally different. Now, I'm with you. We need to have law and order not only here but in every city across America. It makes me puke to see the double standard. If people need to die then so be it, I don't give a shit. They deserve it. This lady deserved it and so did most of the protesters being killed across American all summer long.

Cordelier · Jan 7, 2021

Lutherf said:
The left doesn't want the political system to work the wat it's supposed to. They want the political system to work the way they want it to and they're willing to achieve that goal by any means necessary.

What these people in DC are so pissed off about is that government simply hasn't worked for them over the past four years. The FBI, CIA, NSA and DoJ conspired against Trump to overturn his presidency and NOBODY will be held accountable. Brett Kavanaugh was dragged through the streets and nobody was held accountable. Mike Flynn was railroaded and nobody was held accountable. Adam Schiff flat out made up a narrative about Ukraine even though call transcripts were in the public domain and, once again, nobody was held accountable. Rioters took over several cities across the country and nobody was held accountable.

Government won't hold itself accountable and the courts want nothing to do with any of this so there aren't a lot of other options left to the people. What happened yesterday may have been overdone in some ways but the target of the anger was dead on this time. I also think it's rather telling that the left wing motivated groups take out their anger on the general public, perhaps as a way to "teach" people that they need the government. The right wing protesters took their anger out on the government as a way to demand accountability.

This is the division in this nation right now. It isn't "Trump". It's a division between Americans that want an accountable government and Americans that want a dictatorial government.

Oh my God... I don't believe it. You're actually making excuses for these people!

Enough already. Enough regurgitating lies and baseless conspiracy theories. Enough with the excuse making and the hand-wringing. Your country was attacked yesterday. And it was done at the instigation of it's President. Grab a clue and step up.

Fishking · Jan 7, 2021

Captain Adverse said:
Storming the Capitol is unconscionable!

It is one thing to protest peacefully, regardless of one's lean, views, biases, whatever. That is guaranteed by the First Amendment.

It is another thing to act out in destructive foolish violence. It was not right when the Left was doing it over the last several years, and it isn't when the Right does it as seen today in Washington!

I will always support peaceful actions to agree, disagree, debate, petition, vote, campaign, march, or otherwise show opposition.

But I will not tolerate mob violence from any side. Nor should anyone else. The instigators and participants have achieved NOTHING except to damage whatever they thought they were trying to say, prove, or show support for.

I condemn this with all my heart and mind.

Agreed. And you even have standing to make such a statement, unlike most of the left who ether supported or turned a blind eye to all the violence they've been doing over the past few years. They can sit quietly and spend some time on introspection.

Fishking · Jan 7, 2021

SenorXm/Sirius said:
For 4 years anyone paying attention could see what Trump's rhetoric and throwing meat to his base was leading up to..

The last 2 months was hit over your head obvious what was going to happen. Even some Republicans and their families were being threatened because of Trump's rhetoric and lies..

But now his cult and the Republican cowards in Congress are surprised? The enablers are now shocked?.. Lol

Too late.. This is All on the GOP cowards and the Trump cult who looked the other way for 4 years.. If somebody, anybody held him accountable for his lies, his threats, and his 'the only good Democrat is a dead Democrat' tweets we wouldn't now be a 3rd world country..

Yup...this all happened in a vacuum and nothing outside of the GOP or Trump contributed to it at all. History only started with Trump and only is about Trump, in the minds of many.

Cordelier · Jan 7, 2021

Fishking said:
Agreed. And you even have standing to make such a statement, unlike most of the left who ether supported or turned a blind eye to all the violence they've been doing over the past few years. They can sit quietly and spend some time on introspection.

No, no, no. Peaceful demonstrations are one thing. Riots are entirely another thing. But what happened yesterday was entirely on a separate plane of existence. The US Capitol was attacked. That's an attack on the United States - an attack on us all. As much you might be tempted to play all of your "Whataboutisms"... they don't apply here. It's excuse-making. Bottom line is this.... there is no excuse for what happened yesterday. There is no "What about..." to be had there. What happened yesterday was clearly and simply an act of domestic terrorism... and to paraphrase President Bush, You're either for it or against it. And that also holds true for the individuals who incited it.

SenorXm/Sirius · Jan 7, 2021

Fishking said:
Yup...this all happened in a vacuum and nothing outside of the GOP or Trump contributed to it at all. History only started with Trump and only is about Trump, in the minds of many.

Thank you for making my point.. You are an enabler..

But yeah THIS HISTORY of what happened yesterday started with Trump and his enablers..

You can't see the problem with what happened yesterday because you are part of the problem..

Captain America · Jan 7, 2021

Captain Adverse said:
Storming the Capitol is unconscionable!

It is one thing to protest peacefully, regardless of one's lean, views, biases, whatever. That is guaranteed by the First Amendment.

It is another thing to act out in destructive foolish violence. It was not right when the Left was doing it over the last several years, and it isn't when the Right does it as seen today in Washington!

I will always support peaceful actions to agree, disagree, debate, petition, vote, campaign, march, or otherwise show opposition.

But I will not tolerate mob violence from any side. Nor should anyone else. The instigators and participants have achieved NOTHING except to damage whatever they thought they were trying to say, prove, or show support for.

I condemn this with all my heart and mind.

Bravo!!

Here! Here!

Neither will I tolerate mob violence! I will start a blog!

Fishking · Jan 7, 2021

Cordelier said:
No, no, no. Peaceful demonstrations are one thing. Riots are entirely another thing. But what happened yesterday was entirely on a separate plane of existence.

'
No it ****ing wasn't. It was a few broken windows and selfies. The violent leftists have been accosting politicians out in public, burning down buildings including a police precinct, laying siege and attacking a federal courthouse.

The US Capitol was attacked. That's an attack on the United States - an attack on us all. As much you might be tempted to play all of your "Whataboutisms"... they don't apply here. It's excuse-making. Bottom line is this.... there is no excuse for what happened yesterday. There is no "What about..." to be had there. What happened yesterday was clearly and simply an act of domestic terrorism... and to paraphrase President Bush, You're either for it or against it. And that also holds true for the individuals who incited it.

I don't give a shit what you think about whataboutism. If you were among those who turned a blind eye or supported all that then you can sit quietly. If you weren't, then it doesn't apply to you.

Cordelier · Jan 7, 2021

Fishking said:
'
No it ****ing wasn't. It was a few broken windows and selfies. The violent leftists have been accosting politicians out in public, burning down buildings including a police precinct, laying siege and attacking a federal courthouse.

I don't give a shit what you think about whataboutism. If you were among those who turned a blind eye or supported all that then you can sit quietly. If you weren't, then it doesn't apply to you.

You're in denial... and what's worse, you're attempting to make excuses for what happened yesterday - both before the attack on the Capitol and during it.

Fishking · Jan 7, 2021

SenorXm/Sirius said:
Thank you for making my point.. You are an enabler..

But yeah THIS HISTORY of what happened yesterday started with Trump and his enablers..

You can't see the problem with what happened yesterday because you are part of the problem..

I'm neither an enable or any other such nonsense you want to try and pull. If this is not looked at in a holistic manner, with responsibility taken by all sides, then it's only going to get worse and you will be the enabler.

Fishking · Jan 7, 2021

Cordelier said:
You're in denial... and what's worse, you're attempting to make excuses for what happened yesterday - both before the attack on the Capitol and during it.

Never made an excuse for anything. I'm pointing out who has standing to say shit and who doesn't. You, apparently, are among those who should sit quietly by and think about your own actions.

Cordelier · Jan 7, 2021

Fishking said:
Never made an excuse for anything. I'm pointing out who has standing to say shit and who doesn't. You, apparently, are among those who should sit quietly by and think about your own actions.

As far as I'm concerned, by not standing up and condemning what happened yesterday - and making excuses for it and trying to draw parallels that just don't exist - you've marked yourself as being on the same level as the bottom-feeding scum who attacked the Capitol yesterday.

Fishking · Jan 7, 2021

Cordelier said:
As far as I'm concerned, by not standing up and condemning what happened yesterday - and making excuses for it and trying to draw parallels that just don't exist - you've marked yourself as being on the same level as the bottom-feeding scum who attacked the Capitol yesterday.

I've already condemned it. I have standing to. You do not. Sit quietly.

I do not support or condone what happened at the Capitol today.

gbg3

SonOfDaedalus

SonOfDaedalus

Geoist

Geoist

Ikari

Cordelier

18th Earl of Diddly

Middle_Ground

Variant

ataraxia

ataraxia

Lutherf

Moderate Right

Cordelier

18th Earl of Diddly

Fishking

Fishking

Cordelier

18th Earl of Diddly

SenorXm/Sirius

Captain America

Jedi Master

Fishking

Cordelier

18th Earl of Diddly

Fishking

Fishking

Cordelier

18th Earl of Diddly

Fishking

I do not support or condone what happened at the Capitol today.

18th Earl of Diddly

18th Earl of Diddly

18th Earl of Diddly

Jedi Master

18th Earl of Diddly

18th Earl of Diddly

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