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I Changed My Stance On Abortion Because Of Forum Posts[W:547]

calamity said:
Very few pro-choice people think that someone having a bunch of abortions is a good thing. Think of it as a homeowner with a gun shooting an invader. They should have the right to kill the intruder, but it's not something I wish upon any homeowner, let alone hope one has to do it repeatedly.

Of course, you are probably too dogmatic to even consider the analogy. So....do continue with your "if abortion isn't bad or good, why not cheer-lead for everyone to have a dozen abortions" nonsense.
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I agree.
It is nonsense.

Just as an unhappy marriage is stressful ( whether they choose separation or divorce) so are unwanted pregnancies whether the woman chooses to continue the pregnancy or have an abortion.

Neither choice is better than not having the unwanted pregnancy in the first place.
 
minnie616 said:
I agree.
It is nonsense.

Just as an unhappy marriage is stressful ( whether they choose separation or divorce) so are unwanted pregnancies whether the woman chooses to continue the pregnancy or have an abortion.

Neither choice is better than not having the unwanted pregnancy in the first place.
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Like with the gun thing, few people actually want to shoot somebody. But, if an intruder enters the home or someone's life is being threatened or a rape is attempted, having the option to shoot the intruder, assailant or rapist is nice to have on the table. So it is with the abortion. Few people if any wake up saying, "Gee, I think I'll go get pregnant today so I can have an abortion next month."
 
Dragonfly said:
How many people do you think have actually switched their stance on Abortion for no other reason than they were convinced to on an internet forum?

We've got 100's of threads here, and probably 10's of 1000's of posts on every possible angle, both for and against abortion rights and I have to wonder, has anybody ever been convinced their position was "wrong" and swapped sides?

I'm guessing the number is infinitesimally small.

So why do people insist on making the same arguments over and over again? Both sides are talking to brick walls.

What's the point?

Does anything "good" ever come out of these threads? Do you ever achieve your goal? Whatever that "goal" may be?

Yeah yeah yeah, you think (in your mind only) that you've proven how stupid somebody elses opinions are, but in the end, did you ever change anybody's mind?

It's a hot button issue, but seriously, why bother?
Is the effort worth the fact that there's no reward?
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No. I realized that pretty early in my stay here at debatepolitics, and that's why I don't come to the abortion forum all that much anymore.
 
Sounds like another thread trying to emphasize or desensitize people to the issue.

I'll leave God to judge the correctness of your decision.
 
cpwill said:
Why be against something that has no value, whether negative or positive? It's like saying you believe in choice, but are strongly against people driving red cars, and want to make red cars as rare as possible. Why care about the number of occurrences of something that isn't good or bad?
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If you want to make cigarettes and alcohol illegal, i can already tell you that it will be an unmitigated disaster.

It's simple human nature that people will try to do what they want to do. When you outlaw what they want, they'll find a way to do it that is unscrupulous, unsupervised, unsafe, and uncontrolled.

This is why drinking age of 21 laws are challenged by college campuses. These college kids get a bunch of liquor and drink themselves to death behind closed doors. They aren't supervised by bartenders, police, and the public because we pushed them out of the public.

Bad things happen, come to terms with that. I suggest worrying about yourself and reserving judgement for the rest of us who have our own lifetimes worth of problems that you're simply not privy to.
 
WCH said:
Sounds like another thread trying to emphasize or desensitize people to the issue.

I'll leave God to judge the correctness of your decision.
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That's very Christian of you. Judge not your neighbor, let God pass religious judgement on your fellow man.

I believe religion should be about personal behavior and personal decisions. Affect those in your intimate sphere, if you affect others.
 
Absentglare said:
If you want to make cigarettes and alcohol illegal, i can already tell you that it will be an unmitigated disaster.

It's simple human nature that people will try to do what they want to do. When you outlaw what they want, they'll find a way to do it that is unscrupulous, unsupervised, unsafe, and uncontrolled.

This is why drinking age of 21 laws are challenged by college campuses. These college kids get a bunch of liquor and drink themselves to death behind closed doors. They aren't supervised by bartenders, police, and the public because we pushed them out of the public.

Bad things happen, come to terms with that. I suggest worrying about yourself and reserving judgement for the rest of us who have our own lifetimes worth of problems that you're simply not privy to.
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Hm. So you don't really know. That's interesting.

All right, well, have a good'un. [emoji4]
 
cpwill said:
That's excellent. Given that some groups like SBC used to be more supportive, we are making real progress in mobilizing the churches against the great evil of our day.
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LOL. Great evil? Seriously? Out of all of the horrible things happening today, people seriously want to rally to protect fetuses..
The Bad Old Days: Abortion in America Before Roe v. Wade | David A. Grimes
Oh, abortion is decreasing by the way, thanks to birth control, sex education.. Banning it is a childish and feel good solution that does nothing.
 
cpwill said:
So I should be legally unrestrained in what i do with my body.
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I'd say so. I'd figure small government conservatives want people to control their own bodies, good or bad. Take the completely failed war on drugs!
 
cpwill said:
Hm. So you don't really know. That's interesting.

All right, well, have a good'un. [emoji4]
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That was your strawman and i didn't want to entertain your logical fallacy. I never said abortion was neutral. I said it was bad. There's a difference between something being bad and something being against the law.

Kant theorized that morality could be derived from the concept of freedom. In this way, when you inhibit the freedom of your fellow citizens, that behavior becomes immoral.

If i choose to drink, that (alone) doesn't infringe on anyone else's freedom. It might be a bad idea, but it shouldn't be illegal because i'm not infringing on any other citizens freedom.

What you pro-life people would like to do is infringe on the freedoms of living, breathing, talking citizens for the sake of the moral superiority of defending zygotes.

When Christians try to legislate a selective set of Christian values, like anti-gay or anti-choice, i feel like they're trying to overcompensate for their own personal sins by condemning others' sins. I consider it a form of authoritarian moral insecurity. I consider it a severe character weakness.

Have a good day :) :)
 
cpwill said:
Who doesn't? Those who want heart patients taken care of, that's who. Heart surgery is a Good. If the pro choice side really means its "parasite" and "slave" language, it seems they should be fighting to try to get as many "heart surgery's" as possible, IOT save those women.
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I have never called it a parasite or slave. But no, even if you consider it good, that doesn't mean you want as many as possible. You said heart surgery is good, do you want people to have to need it?



cpwill said:
Good on you for honesty, then. Yours is the position truer, I think, to your sides' beliefs.
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I have also never said it should be common. I have not stated either way.
 
David_N said:
Abortions will happen whether legal or illegal, it was horrible for women before roe.
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Doesn't sound like it was horrible "for women;" it was pretty bad for those mothers who chose to try to illegally kill their kids.

Which sounds exactly the way it should be.

You pro-aborts must have a pretty low opinion of women to think they're all sociopaths.
 
Scrabaholic said:
Because rights should never be voted on.
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No, the human right to life should not have needed to be voted on, not even at the Supreme Court.
 
Dragonfly said:
How many people do you think have actually switched their stance on Abortion for no other reason than they were convinced to on an internet forum
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Dunno, but conservatives will always switch their stances on the issue (i. e. making abortion illegal) fast one you point out to them that undocumented pregnant women in the US would be unable to get abortions if they were banned.

I came up with this technique myself :) and so far it's worked every time.
 
WCH said:
I keep hearing that but, no stats to back it up.

Maybe they just had the babies and abortion was a very infrequent thing.
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Abortion has been widely used in America since its earliest days. In the 1950s, estimates of numbers of illegal, unsafe abortions ranged widely, from 200,000 to 1.2 million per year. The methods used were often ineffective and dangerous. Desperate women were driven into the back alley, where they endured danger and abuse, sometimes sexual.
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:shrug:
 
calamity said:
Like with the gun thing, few people actually want to shoot somebody. But, if an intruder enters the home or someone's life is being threatened or a rape is attempted, having the option to shoot the intruder, assailant or rapist is nice to have on the table. So it is with the abortion. Few people if any wake up saying, "Gee, I think I'll go get pregnant today so I can have an abortion next month."
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There's a big difference between you defending yourself from intruders in your home from women making the choice to indulge in unprotected sex!
 
WCH said:
I keep hearing that but, no stats to back it up.

Maybe they just had the babies and abortion was a very infrequent thing.
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I guess you missed post #330 on this thread.

Abortion was a crime in the US in the 1930s but there were an estimated 800,000 abortions a year during the 1930s.

Abortion was a common and reoccurring need for many women during the 1930s.

That almost a thousand New Jersey women purchased a type of
― 134 ―
abortion "insurance" in 1936 demonstrates that abortion was a recurring and common need for many.
New Jersey police uncovered a "Birth Control Club" of eight hundred dues-paying and card-carrying members.
Membership in the club "entitled them to regular examinations and to illegal operations, when they needed them,
at a further fee of $75 and upward." Most of the members were "girl clerks" who worked in Newark's downtown offices. Just as working people made small regular payments for life insurance and funeral coverage, these working women bought a form of health insurance through dues paid to this "club." These women expected to have abortions in the future.

The club provided a means of blunting the expense of abortions and other gynccological care.[7]
When the New York Times covered this incident, birth control leaders immediately attacked the headline dubbing this a "birth control" club.

The medical director of the American Birth Control League explained that the birth control movement "opposed" abortion and that the two were not the same.[8]
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When Abortion Was a Crime "d0e2767"


In 1971-1972, 100,000 abortions were being performed in California alone.

That would include women from near by states that were aware of California's pro choice abortion law.
 
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tosca1 said:
There's a big difference between you defending yourself from intruders in your home from women making the choice to indulge in unprotected sex!
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What if the homeowner left the door unlocked, either forgetting or out of naivete, would you be against him/her shooting an intruder then?
 
Lursa said:
Really? How would the govt stop women from having abortions?
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Return us to fine examples of 'godly morality' like going after 'witches' at Salem, and baby drowning in back alleys. Also women (including teenagers and rape victims) would of course be preyed upon by illegal clinics, and I wouldn't be surprised if gangs got involved. The wealthy will have secret abortions in other countries, or employ a lot more nannies. Of course rates of sexual infection will skyrocket without contraceptives, but they can just blame it on 'the gays', 'the sinners', or 'non-believers' right?
 
Ikari said:
I'm not sure anyone really will. The abortion debate isn't about making arguments, it's mostly about who can scream the loudest and who has the better propaganda.
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This site is for those who will never give Up their beliefs, so that they can battle it out. But the non-member listen every day. And who knows, maybe we influence them!
 
Dragonfly said:
Pro-life people don't care, and you can't make sure they'll even read what you wrote, let alone try to understand your point of view or reasoning.

They won't "understand".

Have you ever gotten a response where somebody has said, "hmmm....interesting, let me ponder that for a while and I'll get back to ya."

Have you ever seen anybody who opposes your position say you offer compelling arguments and thought provoking points of view?

Ever?
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Well, no.
 
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