I Changed My Stance On Abortion Because Of Forum Posts[W:547]

[Dragonfly]

How many people do you think have actually switched their stance on Abortion for no other reason than they were convinced to on an internet forum?

We've got 100's of threads here, and probably 10's of 1000's of posts on every possible angle, both for and against abortion rights and I have to wonder, has anybody ever been convinced their position was "wrong" and swapped sides?

I'm guessing the number is infinitesimally small.

So why do people insist on making the same arguments over and over again? Both sides are talking to brick walls.

What's the point?

Does anything "good" ever come out of these threads? Do you ever achieve your goal? Whatever that "goal" may be?

Yeah yeah yeah, you think (in your mind only) that you've proven how stupid somebody elses opinions are, but in the end, did you ever change anybody's mind?

It's a hot button issue, but seriously, why bother?
Is the effort worth the fact that there's no reward?

 

[Reformedfindlay]

My gun control views slightly changed since my time on the forum, but abortion views have remained solid throughout.

 

[JayDubya]

I have refined my views by debating this topic online for many years.

That said, at no point in my life have I ever supported the horror that is legal elective abortion. I have abandoned religions and political parties but that general political viewpoint has been a constant.

 

[Skeptic Bob]

It is rare but I would bet money it has happened, in both directions. Some people actually are swayed by argument rather than ideology.

 

[Ikari]

How many people do you think have actually switched their stance on Abortion for no other reason than they were convinced to on an internet forum?

I'm not sure anyone really will. The abortion debate isn't about making arguments, it's mostly about who can scream the loudest and who has the better propaganda.

 

[betuadollar]

I think people are shaped by life experience. Those males who are against abortion have likely suffered some emotional trauma because of it; those females who support abortion have likely done something really stupid, etc.

 

[Beaudreaux]

... Those males who are against abortion have likely suffered some emotional trauma because of it; those females who support abortion have likely done something really stupid, etc.

:doh ----- opcorn2:

 

[Lursa]

How many people do you think have actually switched their stance on Abortion for no other reason than they were convinced to on an internet forum?

We've got 100's of threads here, and probably 10's of 1000's of posts on every possible angle, both for and against abortion rights and I have to wonder, has anybody ever been convinced their position was "wrong" and swapped sides?

I'm guessing the number is infinitesimally small.

So why do people insist on making the same arguments over and over again? Both sides are talking to brick walls.

What's the point?

Does anything "good" ever come out of these threads? Do you ever achieve your goal? Whatever that "goal" may be?

Yeah yeah yeah, you think (in your mind only) that you've proven how stupid somebody elses opinions are, but in the end, did you ever change anybody's mind?

It's a hot button issue, but seriously, why bother?
Is the effort worth the fact that there's no reward?

I think it's worth pointing out that if abortion were illegal or further restricted, what the impacts on women's rights (& lives) would be.

Some pro-life supporters know and dont care. They place the unborn above women and feel that violating those rights is justified.

However others dont realize it, often because they choose to not think about it, but still dont realize the actual implications for women in our society. Some really believe that the unborn and born can be treated equally, legally and practically. Some dont even realize what they want amounts to force against women.

In both cases, I believe that this should always be prominent in discussions so that they confront the impacts of their position. The impacts of what their desired changes to legislation would mean for women.

I know many wont care. But it still shows that by no means is the pro-life position exclusively the moral High Ground on the issue.

 

[Crovax]

I think it's worth pointing out that if abortion were illegal or further restricted, what the impacts on women's rights would be.

Some pro-life supporters know and dont care. They place the unborn above women and feel that violating those rights is justified.

However others dont realize it, often because they choose to not think about it, but still dont realize the actual implications for women in our society. Some really believe that the unborn and born can be treated equally, legally and practically. Some dont even realize what they want amounts to force against women.

In both cases, I believe that this should always be prominent in discussions so that they confront the impacts of their position. The impacts of what their desired changes to legislation would mean for women.

I know many wont care. But it still shows that by no means is the pro-life position exclusively the moral High Ground on the issue.

There would be no impact on womens rights whatsoever

 

[Lursa]

There would be no impact on womens rights whatsoever

Really? How would the govt stop women from having abortions?

 

[Jetboogieman]

There would be no impact on womens rights whatsoever

Right to Privacy is one.

You do not have the right to interfere with a womens right to choose.

Period.

Why you busy bodies feel the need to do so is beyond me.

 

[Crovax]

Really? How would the govt stop women from having abortions?

The same way the govt stops rapes and murders from happening

 

[Arcana XV]

Quite the opposite. My position has strengthened even more, especially in light of the extremist views I've come across over the years on debate forums. And this is valid for both sides. My position is very moderate, middle of the road, so anything at either extreme (Abortion on demand should be legal up until one second before birth!!! Women who abort should be executed like the subhuman rabid dogs they are!!!) sounds completely insane to me. The only part I'm still open to be swayed on is regarding the point after which abortion on demand should no longer be allowed. I would prefer 15 weeks, but I could accept up to 20. Anything after that I'm very uncomfortable with, except in cases of fetal malformation or threat to the life of the mother.

The only thing I still like to discuss is the issue of fetal personhood which I find quite fascinating and is, I believe, the very crux of the abortion debate.

 

[Crovax]

Right to Privacy is one.

You do not have the right to interfere with a womens right to choose.

Period.

Why you busy bodies feel the need to do so is beyond me.

and yet you somehow think you have the right to interfere with a babys right to live?

Why you heartless sociopaths think you have a right to kill anything you dont want is beyond me

 

[Crovax]

Quite the opposite. My position has strengthened even more, especially in light of the extremist views I've come across over the years on debate forums. And this is valid for both sides. My position is very moderate, middle of the road, so anything at either extreme (Abortion on demand should be legal up until one second before birth!!! Women who abort should be executed like the subhuman rabid dogs they are!!!) sounds completely insane to me. The only part I'm still open to be swayed on is regarding the point after which abortion on demand should no longer be allowed. I would prefer 15 weeks, but I could accept up to 20. Anything after that I'm very uncomfortable with, except in cases of fetal malformation or threat to the life of the mother.

The only thing I still like to discuss is the issue of fetal personhood which I find quite fascinating and is, I believe, the very crux of the abortion debate.

I dont think you have a grasp on the issue. Abortion up until the moment of birth, while a minority opinion, is still held by a significant percentage of people including a significant amount of elected politicians. The opinion that women are "subhuman rabid dogs" is, at best, held by a few hundred people and no elected politicians. I have no urge to try and persuade your opinion on the issue but I do suggest if you want to claim a basic knowledge of it you should at least make an effort to understand both sides.

 

[SmokeAndMirrors]

How many people do you think have actually switched their stance on Abortion for no other reason than they were convinced to on an internet forum?

We've got 100's of threads here, and probably 10's of 1000's of posts on every possible angle, both for and against abortion rights and I have to wonder, has anybody ever been convinced their position was "wrong" and swapped sides?

I'm guessing the number is infinitesimally small.

So why do people insist on making the same arguments over and over again? Both sides are talking to brick walls.

What's the point?

Does anything "good" ever come out of these threads? Do you ever achieve your goal? Whatever that "goal" may be?

Yeah yeah yeah, you think (in your mind only) that you've proven how stupid somebody elses opinions are, but in the end, did you ever change anybody's mind?

It's a hot button issue, but seriously, why bother?
Is the effort worth the fact that there's no reward?

You could say the same about most topics here, really.

I think, for someone who isn't just compelled to yell at people and is here for intellectual reasons, they debate to refine their own position. You know, see how it performs under scrutiny.

My position has changed over the years, but only in the direction of becoming more pro-choice. What has changed it is actually me being unable to ethically defend some of the limitations I used to believe in. If I can't defend it, it makes no sense to continue believing in it.

Debating this for so many years (both here and in life) has also helped me get to the bottom of what the abortion issue really is to me. I used to allow myself to get pulled into gestational milestone silliness, which usually doesn't do anything but prove that some people don't understand biology. And furthermore, although I couldn't articulate exactly why when I was younger, that aspect of the debate just felt misguided to me -- it didn't get to the point of why I'm pro-choice.

Over time, it sort of dawned on me, as I continued to evaluate my own arguments. It has nothing to do with the fetus. It has to do with the body of someone else being used, and the consensuality of that. It's the same argument whether it's a fetus or a dog or a grown man or a mentally disabled person or a chair. It doesn't matter. Being pro-choice, to me, follows naturally from a much broader ethos about the bodily autonomy of self.

While my stance on abortion has never flipped, there have been other issues that have for me. However, this wasn't really due to debating here, for the most part. It probably had some influence, but there were bigger things in play.

 

[Phys251]

How many people do you think have actually switched their stance on Abortion for no other reason than they were convinced to on an internet forum?

We've got 100's of threads here, and probably 10's of 1000's of posts on every possible angle, both for and against abortion rights and I have to wonder, has anybody ever been convinced their position was "wrong" and swapped sides?

I'm guessing the number is infinitesimally small.

So why do people insist on making the same arguments over and over again? Both sides are talking to brick walls.

What's the point?

Does anything "good" ever come out of these threads? Do you ever achieve your goal? Whatever that "goal" may be?

Yeah yeah yeah, you think (in your mind only) that you've proven how stupid somebody elses opinions are, but in the end, did you ever change anybody's mind?

It's a hot button issue, but seriously, why bother?
Is the effort worth the fact that there's no reward?

I changed my views significantly with the help of several people on a discussion forum, but it wasn't this one.

 

[Phys251]

I think people are shaped by life experience. Those males who are against abortion have likely suffered some emotional trauma because of it; those females who support abortion have likely done something really stupid, etc.

 

[joG]

Really? How would the govt stop women from having abortions?

Like they prevent other killings. The world isn't perfect, you know.

 

[joG]

Right to Privacy is one.

You do not have the right to interfere with a womens right to choose.

Period.

Why you busy bodies feel the need to do so is beyond me.

Nor should the girl have the right to terminate a human's life.

 

[Crovax]

You could say the same about most topics here, really.

I think, for someone who isn't just compelled to yell at people and is here for intellectual reasons, they debate to refine their own position. You know, see how it performs under scrutiny.

My position has changed over the years, but only in the direction of becoming more pro-choice. What has changed it is actually me being unable to ethically defend some of the limitations I used to believe in. If I can't defend it, it makes no sense to continue believing in it.

Debating this for so many years (both here and in life) has also helped me get to the bottom of what the abortion issue really is to me. I used to allow myself to get pulled into gestational milestone silliness, which usually doesn't do anything but prove that some people don't understand biology. And furthermore, although I couldn't articulate exactly why when I was younger, that aspect of the debate just felt misguided to me -- it didn't get to the point of why I'm pro-choice.

Over time, it sort of dawned on me, as I continued to evaluate my own arguments. It has nothing to do with the fetus. It has to do with the body of someone else being used, and the consensuality of that. It's the same argument whether it's a fetus or a dog or a grown man or a mentally disabled person or a chair. It doesn't matter. Being pro-choice, to me, follows naturally from a much broader ethos about the bodily autonomy of self.

While my stance on abortion has never flipped, there have been other issues that have for me. However, this wasn't really due to debating here, for the most part. It probably had some influence, but there were bigger things in play.

There in lies the fallacy, when two things are involved, whether its a dog or a grown man or a mentally disabled person its not "self" anymore its selfish

 

[SmokeAndMirrors]

There in lies the fallacy, when two things are involved, whether its a dog or a grown man or a mentally disabled person its not "self" anymore its selfish

At no point does anyone or anything have a right to use and damage the body of anyone against their will. And we recognize that with the dog, the grown man, the mentally disabled person, or the chair.

But for some reason, anti-choicers think women are the only people who have no right to protect their bodies. It is an outrightly anti-woman position.

 

[JayDubya]

No, we anti-abortion folks rightfully point out that parents have obligations to the kids they create.

 

[Crovax]

At no point does anyone or anything have a right to use and damage the body of anyone against their will. And we recognize that with the dog, the grown man, the mentally disabled person, or the chair.

But for some reason, anti-choicers think women are the only people who have no right to protect their bodies. It is an outrightly anti-woman position.

another fallacy, unless a woman got raped, it wasnt against her will.

 

[Arcana XV]

I dont think you have a grasp on the issue. Abortion up until the moment of birth, while a minority opinion, is still held by a significant percentage of people including a significant amount of elected politicians. The opinion that women are "subhuman rabid dogs" is, at best, held by a few hundred people and no elected politicians. I have no urge to try and persuade your opinion on the issue but I do suggest if you want to claim a basic knowledge of it you should at least make an effort to understand both sides.

Not sure what point you're trying to make here. I don't care how many people hold those positions, I don't even know why their numbers matter. I said those positions are at either extreme of the debate and they are. :shrug: I do understand both sides, but I will not be drawn into a debate with the aforementioned extremists, that's all.