'I Call it Genocide Because IT IS Genocide'

[oneworld2]

I mean…much to the chagrin of the left, there are still people who believe the definitions of words matter.

The definitions of words do matter and they help us to , or should help us to see through much of the bs

The problem is that genocide as defined under international law today is so broad that it’s impossible to wage a war without committing it. So the ICC hast to apply stricter definitional standards than those itemized in the Convention to ascertain whether it is actually occurring.

The ICC only deals with people and that's why the ICJ is considering the case against Israel.

And no, the definitions are fairly workable BUT it's the propagandists and state legal whores that are the problem

But the ICC has not provided any clarity on the war in Gaza because it hasn’t taken any definitive position. Instead, they released a highly ambiguous decision saying that South Africa’s claims of genocide in Gaza are “plausible.”

That these things take too much time is highly regrettable and is the real problem, not the definitions.

They will one day class this as a genocide, of that I am 100% sure OR they lose any vestige of credibility in the highly politicized realm of international law and state conflicts.

That's why we, the people, should take the time to learn the definitions and learn to apply them universally so as to see through the state propaganda bs that is the tool muddying the waters imo.

 

[Ganondagan]

Edge lording is attention whoring

No exaggeration here. I mean every word I've written.

 

[watsup]

No exaggeration here. I mean every word I've written.

Tis the shame.

 

[Ganondagan]

I see both sides of the argument. There can be no doubt that the IDF has been taking advantage of the situation by committing unnecessary war crimes in Gaza but I don’t think using incendiary language like “genocide” serves any purpose but to irritate them further. The Gazans obviously don’t have the courage or willpower to remove Hamas themselves and I haven’t seen anyone propose a viable alternative to war.

There is no alternative. This conflict between Hamas and Israel is merely a battle in a war started 1400 years ago. As long as Islam remains a Jihadist ideology there is nowhere on earth that is safe from it's evil.

 

[Napoleon]

The definitions of words do matter and they help us to , or should help us to see through much of the bs


The ICC only deals with people and that's why the ICJ is considering the case against Israel.

And no, the definitions are fairly workable BUT it's the propagandists and state legal whores that are the problem


That these things take too much time is highly regrettable and is the real problem, not the definitions.

They will one day class this as a genocide, of that I am 100% sure OR they lose any vestige of credibility in the highly politicized realm of international law and state conflicts.

That's why we, the people, should take the time to learn the definitions and learn to apply them universally so as to see through the state propaganda bs that is the tool muddying the waters imo.

If you’re looking for credibility at the UN or ICC then you’re looking in the wrong place.

UN judge from Uganda is convicted in the UK of forcing a woman into slavery

A British jury has convicted a United Nations judge of forcing a young woman to work as a slave after tricking her into coming to the U.K.

apnews.com

 

[oneworld2]

Whether or not there is a genocide is a matter of interpretation and opinion.

And that is true of the legal world generally BUT they are formed by analysis of the available facts

It is impossible to destroy Hamas without significant collateral damage by the design of Hamas.

You still believe it's about getting rid of Hamas? lol The entire Strip has been virtually flattened, the healthcare system destroyed, the means of food production and sanitation destroyed, the education system, the cultural tapestry laid waste etc etc and you still believe it's about ousting Hamas?

I have a bridge for sale yo be interested in buying.

I would say that opposing Hamas and anti-semitism is a hollow position if one opposes the only effective method of removing them from power.

If the reports are true that Hamas has stated it will hand over power in Gaza to a Palestinian technocratic committee and Israel has stripped that out of the ceasefire negotiation framework then that should tell you all you need to know about the situation if all of the chaos and destruction fails to

 

[Ganondagan]

Tis the shame.

I'm just being realistic.

 

[Napoleon]

And that is true of the legal world generally BUT they are formed by analysis of the available facts


You still believe it's about getting rid of Hamas? lol The entire Strip has been virtually flattened, the healthcare system destroyed, the means of food production and sanitation destroyed, the education system, the cultural tapestry laid waste etc etc and you still believe it's about ousting Hamas?

That’s what happens when you hide from the consequences of your actions in a network of tunnels and bunkers you built beneath civilian infrastructure to use the civilian population as one big human shield.

If the reports are true that Hamas has stated it will hand over power in Gaza to a Palestinian technocratic committee and Israel has stripped that out of the ceasefire negotiation framework then that should tell you all you need to know about the situation if all of the chaos and destruction fails to

Speaking of bridges for sale. If you believe Hamas is a trustworthy negotiating partner then take your pick. The time for negotiating with Hamas is long over. They must be eradicated.

 

[oneworld2]

I see both sides of the argument.

Sure you do.

There can be no doubt that the IDF has been taking advantage of the situation by committing unnecessary war crimes in Gaza but I don’t think using incendiary language like “genocide” serves any purpose but to irritate them further.

I can imagine someone coming out with that wrt 1940s Germany and the territories it illegally occupied.

The difference you appear blissfully aware of, despite " seeing both sides", is the dozens and dozens of genocidal statements and rhetoric coming from the Israeli hierarchy and the incitement it is sure to engender.

The most difficult thing about weeding out a genocide from a war situation is the stated intention to commit a genocide. here we don't need to worry about this because there are literally dozens of statements pertaining to the intent to commit a genocide.

If you truly did " see both sides" you.....

A. Would be aware of these statement, many of which are in the South African files where they are complaining of the headache of " too much evidence.

B. Wouldn't be a genocide denier.

be sure when this is called by the ICJ, you and all of the other genocide deniers here will be forever known as those who supported it.

The Gazans obviously don’t have the courage or willpower to remove Hamas themselves and I haven’t seen anyone propose a viable alternative to war.

Or the means?

The viable alternative is to end all of the illegal Israeli state terrorist acts against the Palestinians and conclude a just two state resolution of the conflict

 

[oneworld2]

I don’t post very often on this subject and you didn’t answer the question. Do you prefer incineration or starvation?

Why are they the only two choices you have to offer?

How about you understand or at least try and understand the massive state terrorism from Israel that preceded and is the cause of the 7th October attack?

 

[Napoleon]

Why are they the only two choices you have to offer?

How about you understand or at least try and understand the massive state terrorism from Israel that preceded and is the cause of the 7th October attack?

Because they are the options for eradicating Hamas - a prerequisite to any peace. Frankly, I find what Israel has done to be rather generous. If it were me I would have told the Gazans to save themselves by toppling Hamas and delivering the hostages alive within 24 hours or perish. No games. No mercy.

And I don’t have any interest in relitigating decades of tit-for-tat nonsense since the partition.

 

[oneworld2]

What is the alternative, to your mind, for eradicating Hamas? The civilian population can’t be moved out of the way because Egypt, Jordan, Syria, and Lebanon want nothing to do with them. The Gazans are on their own and, like it or not, they’re reaping what they’ve sown for 18 years. That doesn’t mean everything the IDF has done is morally justifiable but this is war and as Rumsfeld famously said, “stuff happens.”

Using Rumsfeld as your go to guide says a lot. They used to be referred to as " the crazies" for a reason.

There is no " eradicating of Hamas" many Israeli military and civilian commentators have admitted as much.

Hamas is the face of resistance to overwhelming Israeli state terrorism.

You can destroy Hamas to a man BUT it comes back because an abused and humiliated people resist their oppressors to their last breath.

The slaughter of Palestinians in this genocide you are denying has already recruited the next generation of future Hamas members. It's the idea of resistance and revenge of an abused and oppressed people. That you seem oblivious to this shows a horrific naivety about people, regardless of their colour or creed.

It's also NOT a war, in the same way a 20 stone heavyweight boxer beating a 5 year old child to death in the ring ISN'T a boxing match.

I seriously think you haven't used your capacity for independent and critical thinking regarding this conflict

 

[Napoleon]

Using Rumsfeld as your go to guide says a lot. They used to be referred to as " the crazies" for a reason.

There is no " eradicating of Hamas" many Israeli military and civilian commentators have admitted as much.

Hamas is the face of resistance to overwhelming Israeli state terrorism.

You can destroy Hamas to a man BUT it comes back because an abused and humiliated people resist their oppressors to their last breath.

The slaughter of Palestinians in this genocide you are denying has already recruited the next generation of future Hamas members. It's the idea of resistance and revenge of an abused and oppressed people. That you seem oblivious to this shows a horrific naivety about people, regardless of their colour or creed.

It's also NOT a war, in the same way a 20 stone heavyweight boxer beating a 5 year old child to death in the ring ISN'T a boxing match.

I seriously think you haven't used your capacity for independent and critical thinking regarding this conflict

I said what I said and I meant it. The population of Gaza has become indistinguishable from Hamas itself. It’s impossible to distinguish between civilians and agents of Hamas anymore so they all must pay the price unless and until they save themselves by turning against Hamas.

 

[oneworld2]

If you’re looking for credibility at the UN or ICC then you’re looking in the wrong place.

UN judge from Uganda is convicted in the UK of forcing a woman into slavery

A British jury has convicted a United Nations judge of forcing a young woman to work as a slave after tricking her into coming to the U.K.

apnews.com

That's your response ?

So we should denounce the integrity of the UKs national health service because of the acts of Harold Shipman?

When it comes to the adjudications of state actions and their legality they are the top people and that's the discussion here.

 

[Napoleon]

That's your response ?

So we should denounce the integrity of the UKs national health service because of the acts of Harold Shipman?

When it comes to the adjudications of state actions and their legality they are the top people and that's the discussion here.

You speak of integrity but you would have us bend the knee to judges who own slaves.

 

[j brown's body]

I said what I said and I meant it. The population of Gaza has become indistinguishable from Hamas itself. It’s impossible to distinguish between civilians and agents of Hamas anymore so they all must pay the price unless and until they save themselves by turning against Hamas.

This sounds a lot like Hamas's justification for attacking Isreal.

I mean…much to the chagrin of the left, there are still people who believe the definitions of words matter. The problem is that genocide as defined under international law today is so broad that it’s impossible to wage a war without committing it. So the ICC hast to apply stricter definitional standards than those itemized in the Convention to ascertain whether it is actually occurring.

But the ICC has not provided any clarity on the war in Gaza because it hasn’t taken any definitive position. Instead, they released a highly ambiguous decision saying that South Africa’s claims of genocide in Gaza are “plausible.”

Genocide commonly occurs under cover of war.

 

[oneworld2]

That’s what happens when you hide from the consequences of your actions in a network of tunnels and bunkers you built beneath civilian infrastructure to use the civilian population as one big human shield.

Once again both your knowledge and your knee jerk resort to Israeli propaganda is on display.

A. There is no compulsion in international law for Hamas to line up like ducks in a field

B. Do you even understand what a shield is? If you want the classic example look at the IDF use of Palestinians as genuine human shields. Being in the proximity of people doen't mean they are being used as shields.

C Why do you think they built tunnels? Because the illegal Israeli occupation forces control the skies above Gaza .

D If Israel kills everyone anyhow they are hardly " shields" are they?

E The attack of 7th October was a response to massive Israeli state terrorism and that seems absent from your commentary. You are a classic example of " nothing justifies 7th October but 7th October justifies everything Israel does"

Speaking of bridges for sale. If you believe Hamas is a trustworthy negotiating partner then take your pick. The time for negotiating with Hamas is long over. They must be eradicated.

I don't think you are really up on the nuances of this conflict generally and certainly not when it comes to who are the most trustworthy negotiating partners.

And if engaging in war criminality is your barometer for who should be eradicated and who shouldn't, why aren't you calling for the eradication of Likud or Israel itself?

I think I know why, I just want you to explain this anomaly

 

[Scatty Kitty]

Heroic special rapporteur for the occupied Palestinian territories Francesca Albanese discussed the genocide. She added, To end it, we must first be willing to see it." She commented that their genocide is defined by intent, not by specific methods.

'I Call it Genocide Because IT IS Genocide' Says UN Palestine Expert Francesca Albanese | Common Dreams

"To end it, we must first be willing to see it."

www.commondreams.org

The colonial state built on the eradication of the people living there is engaging in the eradication of the people living there. Who knew?

 

[oneworld2]

You speak of integrity but you would have us bend the knee to judges who own slaves.

A judge, singular.

Are you saying this is the common position of UN judges?

And that they cannot be credible when it comes to judging state actions against what is legal or not because a tiny fraction might have extremely dodgy private inclinations?

 

[Scatty Kitty]

What the IDF is doing in Gaza is not genocide. They are fighting to protect the country from a terrorist group pretending to be a government.

Which is why they're escorting settlers and expanding illegal settlements in the West Bank. Because the West Bank is 100% part of Gaza.

 

[Napoleon]

Which is why they're escorting settlers and expanding illegal settlements in the West Bank. Because the West Bank is 100% part of Gaza.

No it is not. The West Bank is a refuge with its own government because the first official act committed by Hamas upon their election was to murder their political opposition in the Gaza Strip.

 

[Scatty Kitty]

No it is not. The West Bank is a refuge with its own government because the first official act committed by Hamas upon their election was to murder their political opposition in the Gaza Strip.

Ah so the IDF escorting settlers and expanding illegal settlements isn't at all connected to the war in Gaza... but they're still stealing the land. Now if I were trying to say that Israel was engaging in ethnic cleansing and needed a good example of it. I would point to say Israel supporting illegal settlements and land confiscation in other parts of the occupied territories. Like the West Bank where the IDF is escorting settlers and expanding illegal settlements.

 

[watsup]

There is no alternative. This conflict between Hamas and Israel is merely a battle in a war started 1400 years ago. As long as Islam remains a Jihadist ideology there is nowhere on earth that is safe from it's evil.

More Christian hatefulness..

 

[watsup]

I said what I said and I meant it. The population of Gaza has become indistinguishable from Hamas itself. It’s impossible to distinguish between civilians and agents of Hamas anymore so they all must pay the price unless and until they save themselves by turning against Hamas.

More Cnristian hatefulness.

 

[oneworld2]

Because they are the options for eradicating Hamas - a prerequisite to any peace.

So your only " prerequisite for peace" is to eradicate Palestinians who engage in war crimes but to allow Israelis who engage in worse war crimes and for a longer period of time to carry on in their merry way ?

It's called bias and it's written large all over your rancid , immoral posts here.

It also shows why people would be wise to understand that only bigoted views come up with such obvious nonsense.

You cannot eradicate the will to resist illegal and oppressive, barbaric treatment of a people by more barbaric treatment of them. The very actions are recruiting officers for the very thing you are, allegedly, seeking to destroy. This is something you have remained silent on because it is the logical take and those with bigoted views don't use logi and reason as their tools for understanding the world imo

Frankly, I find what Israel has done to be rather generous. If it were me I would have told the Gazans to save themselves by toppling Hamas and delivering the hostages alive within 24 hours or perish. No games. No mercy.

Yep, because you're a big tough guy and genocide is generous

At least it's become clear that you are an advocate of genocide, we got there in the end albeit through a whole host of self promoting junk

And I don’t have any interest in relitigating decades of tit-for-tat nonsense since the partition.

Of course you don't because it's obvious you think only Israelis have the right to commit crimes and get away with it. We got there too in the end