I am a Suction Machine in an Abortion Clinic

[Saboteur]

I think it's not natural, as no other animal does abortions. If they lose the litter, it's because of a miscarriage or some other reason. Before abortion was invented, yes women tried using sterilized sticks but I imagine they died trying so they only used it as a last resort... ie they will die.

Lots of animals practice abortion... They eat their young.

 

[Saboteur]

I am an SUV

By Saboteur.

I am an SUV, at first my function was for hauling things around rugged terran and working on the farm. But then the wealthy discovered me. I soon became the favorite vehicle for people to cart their families in and to write off of their taxes if they happen to own one of my larger 5002 lbs. brothers. Now you can find me hogging parking spaces at the grocery store or mall. Maybe you'll come across me barrelling down the freeway at top speed while my driver is on their cell phone and recklessly cutting people off.

But now things are different than from the glory days... You see I eat a lot of gasoline and my country is running out of oil. Don't blame me I don't kill people my driver does.... Because now that there is a depleted supply of oil he/she supported the invasion of an oil rich country. So far it has cost over 2,000 of the soliders they sent in their lives. And even more, almost countless, amounts of innocent civilian lives who belong to that country.

Now there is nothing but anarchy in that country. But my owner doesn't care, because he can still drive around at 13 MPG.

 

[doughgirl]

”I saw on the O'Reilly Factor that New York State has the most abortions every year. And most of the NY State abortions happen in NYC. So my point to you is, are most New Yorkers murderers? I admit that I'm appalled by those numbers, but I just want your input on this.”

First of all I don’t watch O’Reilly so I did not see this program nor read anything about it. I would not say most New Yorkers are murderers………because you never know how many woman came from different states to get abortions there. And you must separate the population by sexes. No man can comitt murder by having an abortion. The doctors do that actually perform them do but the general male population does not.

I think a murderer is a murderer no matter where they go. Not all New Yorkers are murders. Not all people who live in San Fransico are gays. New York might have more simply because its one of the biggest cities in the country, world for that matter.

Hope I ansered your question.

 

[doughgirl]

Steen said, “Your drawing false analogies and misrepresenting science doesn't make you right.”


Steen it wouldn’t matter what I posted or from what source. I do not misrepresent science. I have posted sources where I have gotten information. You think every one of those are not valid? Ha ha dumb question on my part, sorry.

Bottom line your mind is made up. You are for the slaughter of the unborn child. You believe this slaughter is fine until delivery when it automatically becomes a child. No amount of information is going to change your opinion. I say opinions because you never site sources, websites, books…….that back your claims up. You simply state OPINION.


Donkey you said, “But really I could care less, they're all nerds anyhow.”
Nerds? Come on Donkey……Do you ever go to the doctor and put yourself in his hands? Was Salk a nerd for coming up with the polio vaccine? You think doctors and scientists are nerds for trying to make our lives more pain free……trying to come up with cures and medicines, operations………that make the quality of life better.

I think you were just joking right?????


Jfuh, you said “Really hate to tell you this, but all those sources are opinionated non-peer reviewed literacy. That's it, not science. They use specific numbers only to support thier viewpoint. Scientific articals are completely unbiased. You would not know what the author is trying to tell you of right or wrong except for hey, here're some figures, now go make your own decision of how to use it.”

First of all did you read ALL THE SOURCES I POSTED? You’re telling me these doctors are all quacks, frauds……..that EVERYTHING they talk about has no scientific basis at all?

Tell me or post then the scientific sites and sources that have validity? :roll:

I gave men and woman who testified at Senate hearings……..and your saying they are all quacks? :roll:

Contrary to what you say, I have most the sources at hand. I work in this field, (Right To Life) and we have extensive libraries with information from both sides of this issue. I would suggest stepping out of your box and reading some of them, instead of just bashing them when you obviously have no idea what they contain.

 

[steen]

Steen said, “Your drawing false analogies and misrepresenting science doesn't make you right.”

Steen it wouldn’t matter what I posted or from what source. I do not misrepresent science. I have posted sources where I have gotten information. You think every one of those are not valid?

Rather, if they are not scientific sites, their political claims are not validated.

Bottom line your mind is made up.

I have an opinion, that's all. If you show actual evidence to the contrary, then I certainly will pay6 attention. But piosting what has been shown to be lies long ago won't do it.

Now, when talking about having your mind made up, when you make claims directly contradicted by evidence, refusing to take evidence into account, then YOUR mind certainly is made up regardless of evidence. So your claim now is shown to be EXTREMELY HYPOCRITICAL.

You are for the slaughter of the unborn child.

Ah, more prolife, deceptive, revisionist linguistic, emotional hyperbole.

You believe this slaughter is fine until delivery when it automatically becomes a child.

I believe it is a medical decision and none of your business.

No amount of information is going to change your opinion.

Oh, now you are talking to the mirror. (yes, you are still hypocritical.)

I say opinions because you never site sources, websites, books…….that back your claims up. You simply state OPINION.

Now you are LYING. As is, of course, expected when you are posting.

First of all did you read ALL THE SOURCES I POSTED? You’re telling me these doctors are all quacks, frauds……..that EVERYTHING they talk about has no scientific basis at all?

They are stating personal, political opinions. Scientific sources contradict their claims.

Tell me or post then the scientific sites and sources that have validity? :roll:

That would be those that are actually scientific. you know, sources that are peer-reviewed and contain information derived through the Scientific Method. You **DO** know what that is, right? No? never heard of it? Well, I am not surprised, per the quality of your posts.

I gave men and woman who testified at Senate hearings……..and your saying they are all quacks?

Rather, they are expressing political views, not scientific ones.

Contrary to what you say, I have most the sources at hand. I work in this field, (Right To Life) and we have extensive libraries with information from both sides of this issue.

Right-to-life spews lies time after time.

I would suggest stepping out of your box and reading some of them, instead of just bashing them when you obviously have no idea what they contain.

I have seen your claims and the claims of prolife sites and resources. They are full of lies.

 

[Saboteur]

I am a Handgun

By Saboteur,


I am a handgun, by design I am a tool used for killing people. But don't blame me I don't actually kill, the person that takes me in their hand does. Though if I had never been invented that person may not have the balls to use a knife. People fight for the right to own me so that I can help them claim hundreds of thousands of lives per year. They scream, "From My Cold Dead Hand" when appropriately visiting a town where some children brought me to school and killed several class mates then themselves. But don't blame me, blame the person that sold me to the children. Blame the person that allowed an illegal weapon into our country because it was with a bunch of legal ones.

http://www.stophandgunviolence.com/facts.asp

 

[doughgirl]

“Now, when talking about having your mind made up, when you make claims directly contradicted by evidence, refusing to take evidence into account, then YOUR mind certainly is made up regardless of evidence. So your claim now is shown to be EXTREMELY HYPOCRITICAL.”


You have given no evidence. None. Are you telling me the people , the doctors I have posted are all wrong? Yes/no

These doctors who testify before congress are all wrong? That they have no credibility?

Take Dr. Jerome LeJeune, professor of genetics at the University of Descartes, Paris France for example. This man is a doctor of medicine……a scientist.
He is the doctor who discovered the chromosome pattern of Down syndrome.

He says” after fertilization has taken place a new human being has come into being. This is no longer a matter of taste or opinion and not a metaphysical contention; it is plain experimental evidence. Each individual has a very neat beginning at conception.”

You think he knows nothing steen?

Put your money where your mouth is……….give some credible medical experts statements on abortion that say it is NOT A life, that it doesn’t feel pain in the womb, that say its fine if its aborted until actual birth.

 

[steen]

Are you telling me the people , the doctors I have posted are all wrong? Yes/no

I am saying that they are giving personal, political OPINIONS.

These doctors who testify before congress are all wrong? That they have no credibility?

Not scientifically.

Take Dr. Jerome LeJeune, professor of genetics...

Whom I have already shown being condemned by the scientific/medical society for his political claims and prolife politics in the face of scientific facts. he IS being condemned by the medical society for prostituting scientific integrity for political lies.

You think he knows nothing steen?

I know that he is spewing personal, political opinion, not scientific facts.

Put your money where your mouth is……….give some credible medical experts statements on abortion that say it is NOT A life,

but it SI a life. We haven't denied this.

that it doesn’t feel pain in the womb,

$#@$#%$@#%$# I have done this many times, even a couple times today, where I linked to the at least 6 posts where evidence was rpesented about the pain not being sensed uintil the connection to the brain's cortex was made at the end of the 26th week of pregnancy. This evidence ahs been posted MANY TIMES now. You claiming it hasn't and repeatedly asking for it shows that you are dishonest, that you are lying.

that say its fine if its aborted until actual birth.

Irrelevant, as thta is a value issue, not a scientific one.

 

[paulmarkj]

Lots of animals practice abortion... They eat their young.

You are right. For example, when lions have a new leader, he kills the cubs so he can replace them with his own. Hippos also kill their young, and many other animals as well.

 

[Proudly Pro Life JP Freem]

You are right. For example, when lions have a new leader, he kills the cubs so he can replace them with his own. Hippos also kill their young, and many other animals as well.

The difference is they wait until their young are born. Just an observation.

 

[steen]

And as such, abortion is a more evolved solution that infanticide.

 

[Aurora151989]

so what are we debating now? the timing of abortion?

while i personally am against abortion, it would be ideal if they could ALL be in the first trimester

 

[steen]

so what are we debating now? the timing of abortion?

while i personally am against abortion, it would be ideal if they could ALL be in the first trimester

Most are, 88% or about that. The ones coming later are per initial difficulty obtaining an abortion (solution, make it easier and cheaper to ge abortions), or per later medical issues (Solution, leave that up to the physician).

 

[jfuh]

so what are we debating now? the timing of abortion?

while i personally am against abortion, it would be ideal if they could ALL be in the first trimester

If states such as Mississippi could actually move into the 20th century perhaps that could all be prevented.
I agree that abortion should be performed within the first trimester. Any later is just brutal and really crosses into medical ethics.

 

[Saboteur]

The difference is they wait until their young are born. Just an observation.

Ah, but it is still the killing of their young.

I know you think that having an abortion is murder because it is a person's young one inside the mother and that it is alive and has rights because it has a beating heart.

So by saying that an animal killing it's young after it has been born isn't abortion, are you also saying then that abortion isn't killing because the young hasn't been born?

Seriously, I am stumped.

 

[tecoyah]

If states such as Mississippi could actually move into the 20th century perhaps that could all be prevented.
I agree that abortion should be performed within the first trimester. Any later is just brutal and really crosses into medical ethics.

I fully agree.....If indeed there are to be abortions (and there will be), we need to try to use the proceedure before there is ANY chance we are stopping a working brain from functioning.

 

[doughgirl]

aurora.........Do some research please. Do you know the heart starts beating during the first 6 weeks???????????????

You said, "while i personally am against abortion, it would be ideal if they could ALL be in the first trimester"

There is no ideal in this situation. It is life......so much is happening in the first trimester. Please do your own research if you do not believe me.

Don't be sucked in by the pro-abortion side here. They hate life they do not care about stopping functioning hearts........of living creatures, all they care about are choices. Choices to murder defensless creatures who can't fight back. They think abortion is great wonderful.......a ritual that should be admired.
Dismemberment means NOTHING TO THEM. They say all physicians who are on the pro-life side are wrong. Everyone who testifies before our government are wrong. Everyone is wrong. All scientists and everyone on the pro-life side are wrong. But aurora abortion is the ultimate in child abuse.

Why is the topic of abortion around the world the number one topic of discussion and conflict if the pro-death, pro-abortion side were right? If all facts plainly pointed to life not beginning at conception, that the unborn child is certainly not worth anything......... then why this discussion?

Because the pro-abortion side has no value for life that is why. They see the unborn not as a miracle a blessing soemthing to be protected............they see it as a curse and something to be destroyed.

 

[Saboteur]

so what are we debating now? the timing of abortion?

while i personally am against abortion, it would be ideal if they could ALL be in the first trimester

I agree, I don't like abortion either but I don't like the idea of someone not having the ability to decide what they want.

I wish that the "morning after" pill was free or at least cheap and available over the counter.

There is somthing hidden in the Pro-Life philosophy and I think it is a desire to control people.

 

[Felicity]

There is somthing hidden in the Pro-Life philosophy and I think it is a desire to control people.

...maybe you mean...a desire for people to have "self" control. That I could agree with.

 

[Saboteur]

...maybe you mean...a desire for people to have "self" control. That I could agree with.

No, I mean that some Pro-Life people want to tell everybody what to do based on their morals. Some want to force their beliefs onto people who want to be able to make a choice.

It is fine to be Pro-Life, it is fine to be Christian, it is fine to teach your children your values and morals.

It is wrong however, to shove them down the throat of society!

And I've already gone a couple of rounds about the moral issue and I don't want to hear about how I am forcing my morals on anyone or the unborn.

It is plain and simple, the unborn child is subject to it's parent's morals. Those morals will affect their choice whether they have a legal means to carry them out or not. You cannot blame the choice on the people who want them to have the choice!

 

[Felicity]

.....I don't want to hear about.....

...:sigh:...

 

[steen]

aurora.........Do some research please. Do you know the heart starts beating during the first 6 weeks?

And so what? That merely is an automatically contractile muscle tissue collection. What significance do you attribute to this?

Don't be sucked in by the pro-abortion side here. They hate life they do not care about stopping functioning hearts........

Could you please curtail the ad homonyms?

of living creatures, all they care about are choices. Choices to murder defensless creatures who can't fight back.

Could you please curtail the ad homonyms?

They think abortion is great wonderful.......a ritual that should be admired.

Could you please cease making untrue claims about other people?

Dismemberment means NOTHING TO THEM. They say all physicians who are on the pro-life side are wrong.

Who claimed THAT?

Everyone who testifies before our government are wrong.

No, they are just not expressing verifiable scientific statements.

Everyone is wrong. All scientists and everyone on the pro-life side are wrong.

Who claimed this?

But aurora abortion is the ultimate in child abuse.

revisionist linguistic hyperbole, as there is no child until birth.

Why is the topic of abortion around the world the number one topic of discussion

It isn't. The rest of the world deal with REAL problems such as poverty, war and conflict.

and conflict if the pro-death, pro-abortion side were right?

I have yet to see a "pro-death, pro-abortion" side anywhere. Could you stick to real-world stuff, please?

If all facts plainly pointed to life not beginning at conception,

Well, it HAS been shown that the gametes are live cells.

that the unborn child is certainly not worth anything.........

Really? Who claimed that/

then why this discussion?

Perhaps because prolife emotional beliefs are not grounded in the facts?

Because the pro-abortion side has no value for life that is why.

Who are these "pro-abortion" people you keep talking about? Other than Dr. Singer from Princeton, I haven't really heard of anybody like that.

They see the unborn not as a miracle a blessing soemthing to be protected............

Well, if the woman feels that way, then that is what it is, so your claim seems to not fit reality.

they see it as a curse and something to be destroyed.

We don't see it as anything in particular, as that is up to the pregnant woman only.

 

[tecoyah]

aurora.........Do some research please. Do you know the heart starts beating during the first 6 weeks???????????????

You said, "while i personally am against abortion, it would be ideal if they could ALL be in the first trimester"

There is no ideal in this situation. It is life......so much is happening in the first trimester. Please do your own research if you do not believe me.

Don't be sucked in by the pro-abortion side here. They hate life they do not care about stopping functioning hearts........of living creatures, all they care about are choices. Choices to murder defensless creatures who can't fight back. They think abortion is great wonderful.......a ritual that should be admired.
Dismemberment means NOTHING TO THEM. They say all physicians who are on the pro-life side are wrong. Everyone who testifies before our government are wrong. Everyone is wrong. All scientists and everyone on the pro-life side are wrong. But aurora abortion is the ultimate in child abuse.

Why is the topic of abortion around the world the number one topic of discussion and conflict if the pro-death, pro-abortion side were right? If all facts plainly pointed to life not beginning at conception, that the unborn child is certainly not worth anything......... then why this discussion?

Because the pro-abortion side has no value for life that is why. They see the unborn not as a miracle a blessing soemthing to be protected............they see it as a curse and something to be destroyed.

Just Curious.....are you Vegan?

 

[ngdawg]

aurora.........Do some research please. Do you know the heart starts beating during the first 6 weeks???????????????

You said, "while i personally am against abortion, it would be ideal if they could ALL be in the first trimester"

There is no ideal in this situation. It is life......so much is happening in the first trimester. Please do your own research if you do not believe me.

Don't be sucked in by the pro-abortion side here. They hate life they do not care about stopping functioning hearts........of living creatures, all they care about are choices. Choices to murder defensless creatures who can't fight back. They think abortion is great wonderful.......a ritual that should be admired.
Dismemberment means NOTHING TO THEM. They say all physicians who are on the pro-life side are wrong. Everyone who testifies before our government are wrong. Everyone is wrong. All scientists and everyone on the pro-life side are wrong. But aurora abortion is the ultimate in child abuse.

Why is the topic of abortion around the world the number one topic of discussion and conflict if the pro-death, pro-abortion side were right? If all facts plainly pointed to life not beginning at conception, that the unborn child is certainly not worth anything......... then why this discussion?

Because the pro-abortion side has no value for life that is why. They see the unborn not as a miracle a blessing soemthing to be protected............they see it as a curse and something to be destroyed.

What really saddens me is your total ignorance of anyone here-you are opinionated with no consideration for what's been said or with nothing to back your claims, argumentative with nothing substantial and drawn to conclusions that have absolutely NO basis in reality. Not one thing you have said about any pro-choice person in any of these forums is correct, founded in actual quoting or of any real meaning. You don't take anything but your own words into consideration and quite frankly, lately they have made NO sense. You are not a debater or even a poster of factual information, but simply a name-caller who attempts to enflame and incite. I got more intelligent reactions from my dog. Have a good day and for the sake of those in your own life, get some therapy.

 

[doughgirl]

Saboteur

You said, "No, I mean that some Pro-Life people want to tell everybody what to do based on their morals. Some want to force their beliefs onto people who want to be able to make a choice.

It is fine to be Pro-Life, it is fine to be Christian, it is fine to teach your children your values and morals.

It is wrong however, to shove them down the throat of society!"

Do you think that one need a religious faith to know that killing is wrong?
don't you think that around the world even people who kill people know it is wrong? One need not be Christian to know that abortion is murder. I work with athiests who know that abortion is taking the life of an unborn child whose ehart is BEATING. WHY DO PRO-CHOICERS, PRO-ABORTIONS FAIL TO GET THIS POINT. WHY DO YOU? You think you have the right to dismember and stop a beating heart? so what its in teh womans body. She should have made sure she didnt get pregnant. When my husband and I were finished having children, he got fixed. We made it impossible for me to get pregnant.

So tell me why you think it is ok to murder the unborn child. We have laws in society to protect people.
Making abortion illegal is saving lives. Making murder in our society illegal is saving lives.

What is so wrong with some father whose daughter was brutally raped and murdered, killing the man who did this to her. Who would you be to stop him? In his eyes that would be the moral thing to do wouldn't it? And are you going to tell him he can't? Wouldnt you be shoving your morals down his throat if you said no?

We have laws in our country that say you can't steal or rob. In the eyes of some mother whose children need food, she might think that the moral thing for her to do would be to break into some store or home to get food. Can we allow this to happen?

How would you like it if you can home and your home had been looted? But the person doing it had good reason.......shouldn't that make a difference?

Society must have laws and rules to protect its citizens even from people who have good and moral reasons for doing what they feel to be moral.

Tell me how moral is it to kill an unborn child whose heart and organs are functioning?

You pro-abortionists talk like the life of the unborn is like the life of some ant crawling down the street. A life that is alright to just crush, kill.

How does your attitude benefit society?