How to solve israels problem

[Iriemon]

So you are asking me how Death reduces numbers ? :roll:

The only meaning that fits in the context of the original post is the one I obviously meant.
Its not my problem if you are unfamiliar with the term.

Everyday is a chance to learn something, and now you know what attrition means, good for you.

I said attrition -- which I have given the definition as "A gradual, natural reduction in membership or personnel, as through retirement, resignation, or death" would not be effective in greatly reducing the number of Muslems, given the high birthrate as you pointed out.

You said that was a false assertion.

I'll stand by my statement "A gradual, natural reduction in membership or personnel, as through retirement, resignation, or death" will not be effective in greatly reducing the number of Muslims (Hezoballah supporters).

You steadfastly refuse to explain why that is a "false assertion," as you claimed, but I don't expect you to retract it.

 

[Iriemon]

Bite me... I have a job I had to actually do some work so I could not get right back to your question. I however have done so since. So you can feel free to disagree with it and post your rebuttal anytime

Fair enough -- I take back the "cut-n-run" comment I made about you and apologize for it.

 

[Calm2Chaos]

Fair enough -- I take back the "cut-n-run" comment I made about you and apologize for it.

LOL and I apologize for the Bite Me rebuttal.

 

[Voidwar]

I said attrition .

I said it first, and I knew what it meant.
You blew two pages exposing your illiteracy and now you have a problem with comprehension as well ?
Only one of those definitions fits the context, so obviously that is the one intended.

 

[Iriemon]

I said it first, and I knew what it meant.
You blew two pages exposing your illiteracy and now you have a problem with comprehension as well ?
Only one of those definitions fits the context, so obviously that is the one intended.

"You steadfastly refuse to explain why that is a "false assertion," as you claimed, but I don't expect you to retract it."

Guess I was correct.

 

[Voidwar]

Because attrition reduces numbers, and your definition is not a very good one.

In a military / armed struggle context, attrition means killing or destroying.

Your barely accurate definition, and insistance on the wrong version thereof, is transparently dishonest.

Killing them faster than they breed will reduce their numbers. Period.

Q E D

 

[Vader]

Re: How to solve isreals problem

Thats what i was saying by "Hate goes both ways" i think they should both stop being terroists but it wont end and me bitching wont solve it.

p.s they tryed peacefull methods and the Isrealies killed them(Intifidas) but then Palestianinas went all pyscho and killed Isreal citizens D=

I do not believe the Palestinians have ever tried peace. If you think that way, then perhaps we should be discussing the 1970 Olympics in Munic Germany. Remember how 20 palestinians murdered the entire Israelie olympic team?

If there is ever to be peace in the middle east, there must first be an end to the islamic theocracies throughout the region. Once Islam is seperated from the government, peace will be all but assured.

:2razz:

 

[Iriemon]

Because attrition reduces numbers, and your definition is not a very good one.

In a military / armed struggle context, attrition means killing or destroying.

Your barely accurate definition, and insistance on the wrong version thereof, is transparently dishonest.

Killing them faster than they breed will reduce their numbers. Period.

Q E D

Well that wasn't so onerous to write and clarify, was it?

So now we back the the original question:

Calm2Chaos wrote: "Then we need to reduce that number greatly because they are a danger to everything and everyone." #179.

Then I wrote "How do we "reduce that number greatly"? Assuming 99% of the Muslem world supports Hezbollah over Israel; which is probably true at the moment." #181.

And you answered "attrition" [#182], by which we know now you meant killing and destroying them faster than they breed.

And just so I'm clear, in answering my question as to what we need to do, were you asserting that we need to, or should, kill or destroy enough Hezbollah supporters (ie the vast majority of Muslims) to greatly reduce their numbers, or were you simply pointing out for us the obvious that killing and destoying millions of them annually would greatly reduce their number?

 

[Voidwar]

So now you call it obvious. :roll:

So did you learn something new since this post ?

Not effective.

 

[Iriemon]

So now you call it obvious. :roll:

So did you learn something new since this post ?

Just how you can dance.

What is obvious would is that killing millions of Muslims would reduce their number. However, I would not call that "attrition" -- I'd call it mass murder or genocide.

But I'm glad you do not think that "attrition" of the muslems is necessary or something that should be done.

 

[Voidwar]

Correct, I was referring to Hezbollah Supporters, it was you trying to substitute terminology.

I didn't dance, at all, you illiterate, deliberately dishonest, flake.

And don't even bother bitchin, cause facts aren't flames.

 

[Iriemon]

Correct, I was referring to Hezbollah Supporters, it was you trying to substitute terminology.

I didn't dance, at all, you illiterate, deliberately dishonest, flake.

And don't even bother bitchin, cause facts aren't flames.

Tsk tsk, now we are resorting to blatant name calling. Lame, but I understand that it is frustrating when you are so thoroughly embarrassed in one of these debates.

 

[Voidwar]

I should be embarassed because you are illiterate ?

I should be embarassed because you deliberately and dishonestly try to substitute terminology ?

I don't think so. Other than "flake", I didn't "namecall" you, I stated FACTS, provable on this thread.

 

[mpg]

Re: How to solve isreals problem

I do not believe the Palestinians have ever tried peace. If you think that way, then perhaps we should be discussing the 1970 Olympics in Munic Germany. Remember how 20 palestinians murdered the entire Israelie olympic team?

If there is ever to be peace in the middle east, there must first be an end to the islamic theocracies throughout the region. Once Islam is seperated from the government, peace will be all but assured.

:2razz:

I agree with you for the most part, but they didn't murder the entire Israeli Olympic Team. It was about 8 wrestlers and weigh lifters.

 

[Iriemon]

I should be embarassed because you are illiterate ?

I should be embarassed because you deliberately and dishonestly try to substitute terminology ?

I don't think so. Other than "flake", I didn't "namecall" you, I stated FACTS, provable on this thread.

Ouch!

.....

 

[Hobbes]

Then we need to reduce that number greatly because they are a danger to everything and everyone. If your a supporter of a terrorist group then you have to be looked at as a terrorist. sorry .. if you help them then you are a terrorist and should be dealt with accordingly

I am equating support with aid or apathy. If you are supporting them in any way, food, money, housing, medical, dental, foot rubs, arms, training.... Thats support. If you know of things and refuse to do anything or help in anyway as they slaughter innocent civilians. If you allow your house, block, neighborhood, or city to be used as base or a launching pad and you do nothing or say nothing thaqts apathy

I would agree that active collaboration falls into a higher level of support than that of our egyptian newspaper reader. But those merely standing, not attacking armed gunmen does not bring them into the same category. By your previous post , even those doing nothing are terrorists somehow? That strikes me as too liberal a use of the term terrorist.

And that aside, what does targeting those supporting Hezbollah actually accomplish. It's a waste of resources. Not only does it create more people willing to actively support Hezbollah but there are more important targets, like the leaders, arms supplies, soldiers firing the rockets. So how does reducing the number of Hezbollah supporters active or apathetic help in resolving this conflict?

 

[Calm2Chaos]

I would agree that active collaboration falls into a higher level of support than that of our egyptian newspaper reader. But those merely standing, not attacking armed gunmen does not bring them into the same category. By your previous post , even those doing nothing are terrorists somehow? That strikes me as too liberal a use of the term terrorist.

And that aside, what does targeting those supporting Hezbollah actually accomplish. It's a waste of resources. Not only does it create more people willing to actively support Hezbollah but there are more important targets, like the leaders, arms supplies, soldiers firing the rockets. So how does reducing the number of Hezbollah supporters active or apathetic help in resolving this conflict?

Well mostly because tey are firing these rockets from within heavily civilian occupied areas. These people are knowingly allowing themselves to be used as shields. Because they are civilians they know others will be less likely to return fire. The fact is if you do this knowing this.. Then your a terrorist. Your assiting in the active attacking of another. You don't have to actually pull the trigger to be a terrorist

 

[Hobbes]

Well mostly because tey are firing these rockets from within heavily civilian occupied areas. These people are knowingly allowing themselves to be used as shields. Because they are civilians they know others will be less likely to return fire. The fact is if you do this knowing this.. Then your a terrorist. Your assiting in the active attacking of another. You don't have to actually pull the trigger to be a terrorist

I really don't see how the apathetic people are terrorists. You talk about being used as human shields. This is the fault of Hezbollah, not the person sitting in their home. If a truck drives up, fires a few missiles , then moves, how exactly are those sitting in the house assissting the terrorists? What should they do, go attack the armed terrorists, and if not face being labeled as terrorists? They are simply bystanders, most sources blame Hezbollah for using human shields, not the civilains who ended up dead.

Can you prove this statement:

These people are knowingly allowing themselves to be used as shields

You really think these people want to die? Show me where Lebanese civilains say they want to be martyrs.

 

[Vader]

I really don't see how the apathetic people are terrorists. You talk about being used as human shields. This is the fault of Hezbollah, not the person sitting in their home. If a truck drives up, fires a few missiles , then moves, how exactly are those sitting in the house assissting the terrorists? What should they do, go attack the armed terrorists, and if not face being labeled as terrorists? They are simply bystanders, most sources blame Hezbollah for using human shields, not the civilains who ended up dead.

Can you prove this statement: You really think these people want to die? Show me where Lebanese civilains say they want to be martyrs.

Some of these "civilians" allowed Hezbollah to put Katusha batteries inside their houses.

That makes them terrorists.

 

[Iriemon]

Some of these "civilians" allowed Hezbollah to put Katusha batteries inside their houses.

That makes them terrorists.

And therefore, because "some" civilians did this, all civilians deserve to die.

 

[Hobbes]

Some of these "civilians" allowed Hezbollah to put Katusha batteries inside their houses.

That makes them terrorists.

Um, read the previous posts, we established a difference between actively supporting Hezbollah and being apathetic. We're are currently discussing people who aren't actually storing the ammo or housing the terrorists. Your post makes no sense in relation to the quote of my post.

 

[mpg]

And therefore, because "some" civilians did this, all civilians deserve to die.

Did all civilians die? If not, you have no point.

 

[Iriemon]

Did all civilians die? If not, you have no point.

Why?

......

 

[MrFungus420]

A few articles I read that explain it better than I:

http://www.alternet.org/story/11590/

The first point made in this is US economic aid to Israel.

It is simply helping to support an ally in an area where they are surrounded by groups that would like nothing better than to destroy them.

Then the laughable proposition that Israel "represses" Arabs. Israel is outnumbered and has a small strip of land in the midst of Arab countries. How is Israel "repressing" Arabs?

Then the point that the economic sanctions against Iraq hurt civilians, not Hussein. Tell me, how is it OUR fault that the Iraqi military under Hussein wouldn't allow aid supplies to reach the civilians. It is true that the sanctions didn't hurt Hussein, but that is because he was only concerned about one thing, his own assets. As long as he could live in his mansions and torture, rape and kill whoever he wanted, he didn't care about the populace of his own country.

http://www.arabnews.com/?page=7&section=0&article=42492&d=4&m=4&y=2004

Little more than a rant. The closest thing to any substance is claiming that it is about injustice: "For half a century, Palestinians have been robbed of life, property and dignity.". While conveniently glossing over the fact that there has never been an historical Palestinian nation. Also glossing over the fact that the Palestinians were offered land by Israel in the past and they turned it down.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/1129/dailyUpdate.html

Basically an article saying that the US is losing the PR war...

http://www.lssu.edu/faculty/jswedene/FULBRIGHT_FILES/Do_Muslims_hate_Americans.doc

Israel-Palestinian Issue:

Again, there has never been a "Palestinian" state. Palestine was the name given to Judea by the Romans. It is historically and currently Israel. It talks about the "savage" attacks by Israel, while conveniently forgetting that most of that is retaliation. If you don't like how Israel retaliates, then don't attack them.

The War on Afghanistan:

The author is trying to use this as a reason for hatred of the US in the region BEFORE the conflict occured in Afghanistan. Nice attempt at revisionism.

The Gulf War:

The only thing about the first Gulf War was the sanctions that occured after the conflict.

For the Second Gulf War, the complaints are carpet-bombing, which we didn't do, and that their own leaders supported the war initially.

Military Presence in Saudi Arabia:

The US pulled out most our military presence in 2003. Coincidently, the year of two of the biggest terrorist attacks in Saudi Arabia.

Interference in interior affairs of Islamic countries:

"Bin Laden has asked the United States to “Get out of Saudi Arabia, and leave us alone”. This is the political change he wishes to bring about through the use of terrorism."

It might be the change that HE wants, but I don't think that it is the change that Saudi Arabia wants. If they did, they could tell us to remove our military and diplomatic assets.

OBL is not in charge of Saudi Arabia, or any other place.


If you want my personal opinion on what the real problem is with the Middle East, it's frustration.

Not frustration about anything that is happening now, or even in the recent past. The real frustration comes from a memory, on the cultural level, that about 1000 years ago, they were the center of scientific and philosophical developement and now the entire region seems to be second-rate at best. They have lost so much and don't understand how or why, or even really when, it happened.

 

[Calm2Chaos]

I really don't see how the apathetic people are terrorists. You talk about being used as human shields. This is the fault of Hezbollah, not the person sitting in their home. If a truck drives up, fires a few missiles , then moves, how exactly are those sitting in the house assissting the terrorists? What should they do, go attack the armed terrorists, and if not face being labeled as terrorists? They are simply bystanders, most sources blame Hezbollah for using human shields, not the civilains who ended up dead.

Can you prove this statement: You really think these people want to die? Show me where Lebanese civilains say they want to be martyrs.

And I am saying that I believe apathy is assitance. They know that there is going to be retailiation. I saw video a week or so ago of civilians helping to hide rockets in a back yard. If these terrorist are so much the minority then someone should do something. The civilian population, the government, the military. The animals are live and thriving within the civilian population. It's not like they just drive from there base to a city street. They are in the city street. They are in the city, they are the population