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How should the threat to Mike Pence’s life on 1/6 be viewed?

How should the threat to Mike Pence’s life on 1/6 be viewed?


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Atomic Kid. I am happy to discuss the 1/6 riot seriously and honestly.


BUT, posting pictures of a prop and trying to spin it as... more than that, is being dishonest and not serious.


Do you understand what I am saying?

Several of us have clearly demonstrated the prop gallows was a blatant death threat...and you failed to refute it.

That you keep posting lies about that is very discourteous and dishonest to other posters.

☮️🇺🇸☮️
 
I didn't mention the gallows.


You jumped into a discussion with no idea what it was about or even what point you were defending or pursuring? lol.

You might think that because you are uninformed.

When people pepper it with misleading photos or claims based on the photo, that is not a serious or honest discussion.
Yes, with their bare hands they were willing to murder Pelosi and Pence. They beat police with flag poles

Big difference between getting into a fight with cops and actually killing a man.




and later a man showed up at Pelosi's house and he sent her husband to the hospital. Yes, they were willing to murder with their bare hands.

That guy at Pelosi's house, that doesn't seem like a MAGA thing, that seems like a weird coast weirdo thing. I think that they knew that guy and had some sort of relationship with him.


Again, your motive to mislead is clear. trump is responsible for J6.


I like the way you responded to my post, but ignored my argument and ideas. That shows that you are afraid of them. That shows that you think that they are powerful.
 
YOur not addressing my answer. YOU asked, what was the prop for. I told you, it was for the planned, peaceful rally.

This w
as refuted and you have not managed to answer it...to counter that. So please dont continue with falsehoods.

"Why bring a prop of a lethal execution method to a "legal and peaceful rally?""

It was just, window dressing. That is my answer to your question.

What was the reason for choosing that particular "window dressing?" What did it mean?


☮️🇺🇸☮️
 
You jumped into a discussion with no idea what it was about or even what point you were defending or pursuring? lol.
You were not accurate in your post.

When people pepper it with misleading photos or claims based on the photo, that is not a serious or honest discussion.
Then you can check your facts before you post.

Big difference between getting into a fight with cops and actually killing a man.

There were many men who would have murdered Pence if they had the chance.

That guy at Pelosi's house, that doesn't seem like a MAGA thing, that seems like a weird coast weirdo thing. I think that they knew that guy and had some sort of relationship with him.
You don't know the facts, but you keep posting anyway.

I like the way you responded to my post, but ignored my argument and ideas. That shows that you are afraid of them. That shows that you think that they are powerful.
LOL tell the truth and I won't have to reply,
 
You were not accurate in your post.


Then you can check your facts before you post.

That makes no sense.
There were many men who would have murdered Pence if they had the chance.

YOu don't know that. You can't know that. The only person killed that day, was one of MAGA, not one of the congressmen or the police.

You don't know the facts, but you keep posting anyway.

YOU don't know the facts of that case, but you smeared MAGA with it. That you did that, kind reveals that you don't have enough bad real shit to say about maga, so you have to go with made up shit.

Little bit of a red flag there.

LOL tell the truth and I won't have to reply,

I haven't lied. Or been deceptive at all. That has been your side.
 
That makes no sense.


YOu don't know that. You can't know that. The only person killed that day, was one of MAGA, not one of the congressmen or the police.



YOU don't know the facts of that case, but you smeared MAGA with it. That you did that, kind reveals that you don't have enough bad real shit to say about maga, so you have to go with made up shit.

Little bit of a red flag there.



I haven't lied. Or been deceptive at all. That has been your side.
Sorry Corbell, you have revealed repeatedly that you are misinformed. You are learning the facts about J6 as we reply to you.

Trump lied about fraud and he lied about J6 and he still is.
 
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Sorry Corbell, you have revealed repeatedly that you are misinformed. You are learning the facts about J6 as we reply to you.

Trump lied about fraud and he lied about J6 and he's still is.


Now you are ignoring my serious response to your post to just spam some negs. THANKS FOR PLAYING.
 
Now you are ignoring my serious response to your post to just spam some negs. THANKS FOR PLAYING.

:50


"One is that it reinforces that the danger to Pence was ongoing. Rep. Pete Aguilar (D-Calif.) revealed in the hearing that “a confidential informant from the Proud Boys told the FBI the Proud Boys would have killed Mike Pence if given a chance.” Given that members of the Proud Boys were both among the earliest arrivals inside the building and had a demonstrated predilection for violence, that’s not an idle threat.
Another is that it reveals that Pence was in peril even after Trump’s tweet.
The crowd was already furious at Pence; Trump’s tweet seemed like “pouring gasoline on the fire,” as one former White House aide said in recorded testimony. That’s because the staff — and, almost certainly, Trump — knew about the violence that was already underway at the Capitol, another significant revelation that emerged from the hearing."

 
No. And that's a very strange question. Indeed, I don't really believe it was a serious question. I think you are just trying to spam some negs, by making the snide and slimy implication.

Do YOU think that that shootings were justified by reasonable concerns about immigration? I mean, you've said nothing to indicate that, but then again, neither had I.

I think a lot of the so called concerns about immigration are just scare mongering, so no I don't.

Seems like Trump's rhetoric on immigration is encouraging mass shootings like the ones we saw in El Paso and in the Tree of Life Synagogue, that seems extreme to me.

I don't care about the motivation of a madman.
Except they are using Trump ideology as motivation for their rampages, it's not random with these guys.
You want my guess? The obvious answer is that violence was to a great extent, "normallized" by the massive wave of lefty anti-Trump riots. So, you got a bit of...cultural follow on from other groups.

Everyone else is doing it, so "we" should too. I can see some people falling for that.

Yeah sure and using dog whistles like "globalist" that you saw on Storefront had nothing do with the rise of anti Semitism eh? Did you actually read that article?

Tell me does personal responsibility only apply to the peasants and not golden conservative elites like Trump?
 
His life was never in danger.
BS It wasn't. His Secret Service protection team sent messages to their families telling them they loved them and were thinking of them because they knew that given what they were up against they might not make it out alive.
 
YOur not addressing my answer. YOU asked, what was the prop for. I told you, it was for the planned, peaceful rally.


THe last republcian riot was more than twenty years before. There was no way for the organizers of the event to know that the riot would happen.


So, the prop was not for the "riot".


It was just, window dressing. That is my answer to your question.


So, now that you have that question, what are you going to do about it? Did you have a point you were trying to make?
A noose in the US is never just window dressing. Either you have never been to the US or are very ignorant of American history concerning nooses and the KKK, Neo-Confederates, and Southern States.

So if it was not for what it has written on it, then it must be to intimidate African Americans.

They were there to hang politicians, which ended with chants by Trump followers to hang Mike Pence. Only after Trump cued his followers to hate Pence. All direct evidence of Trump's treason. Trump made war on the US with a coup attempt. Trump deserves the full penalties of the law for his treason. Every American should be pissed at this lowlife that thinks he can just take over the union.

Your represent yourself with a noose. The one with the admission of guilt written on it.
Fig+9+-+Wiki+F2.jpg
 
Atomic Kid. I am happy to discuss the 1/6 riot seriously and honestly.
Well, then let's see.
BUT, posting pictures of a prop and trying to spin it as... more than that, is being dishonest and not serious.

Do you understand what I am saying?
It's not a prop. Whoever built it planned it, prefabricating the parts for it, the platform, the steps, and the pre-measured- precut 2x4 support beams, screws, nails, and bolts, to be portably carried there and quickly constructed. Take a close look at this picture.
Capitol gallows.jpeg
Note the steps on the left of the platform, and the large bolts at each corner connecting the platform to the pre-drilled support posts. Several full-sized men and women climbed onto it without any problem or hesitation as the structure was solid and stable. Whoever tied the noose knew what they were doing as well, That was a real noose, and judging by its color it would appear to be a nylon rope that would be strong enough to hang someone. The FBI took possession of that noose as evidence. If you think that structure was just a prop I would challenge you to put that noose around your neck jump off the platform, and see if it holds up. I fear you might no longer be around to report the results though.
 
Well, then let's see.

It's not a prop. Whoever built it planned it, prefabricating the parts for it, the platform, the steps, and the pre-measured- precut 2x4 support beams, screws, nails, and bolts, to be portably carried there and quickly constructed. Take a close look at this picture.
View attachment 67537915
Note the steps on the left of the platform, and the large bolts at each corner connecting the platform to the pre-drilled support posts. Several full-sized men and women climbed onto it without any problem or hesitation as the structure was solid and stable. Whoever tied the noose knew what they were doing as well, That was a real noose, and judging by its color it would appear to be a nylon rope that would be strong enough to hang someone. The FBI took possession of that noose as evidence. If you think that structure was just a prop I would challenge you to put that noose around your neck jump off the platform, and see if it holds up. I fear you might no longer be around to report the results though.

The materials seen there and the picture in post 436 show it was sturdy enough to be a working gallows.
 
The materials seen there and the picture in post 436 show it was sturdy enough to be a working gallows.

Does it have the trapdoor to drop out from under the noose? That's how gallows worked. Not pushing people off. If Pushed/jump off, you swing back against structure, lose direct drop weight, can even get knees back up on platform. Very inefficient, might not even work. Hence the trap door.

Historically, they did that from the top of stuff, noose around neck, and just threw them off. That's hanging but not a gallows.

Just because they built it strong enough to support people standing on it doesnt make it a functioning gallows. But it still had to be big enough to be seen and intimidate.

☮️ 🇺🇸 ☮️
 
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:50


"One is that it reinforces that the danger to Pence was ongoing. Rep. Pete Aguilar (D-Calif.) revealed in the hearing that “a confidential informant from the Proud Boys told the FBI the Proud Boys would have killed Mike Pence if given a chance.” Given that members of the Proud Boys were both among the earliest arrivals inside the building and had a demonstrated predilection for violence, that’s not an idle threat.
Another is that it reveals that Pence was in peril even after Trump’s tweet.
The crowd was already furious at Pence; Trump’s tweet seemed like “pouring gasoline on the fire,” as one former White House aide said in recorded testimony. That’s because the staff — and, almost certainly, Trump — knew about the violence that was already underway at the Capitol, another significant revelation that emerged from the hearing."




So, the fbi did have assets as part of the rally?


So, they knew of any plans ahead of time. DID THEY INFORM THE CAPITOL POLICE? IF NOT, WHY NOT? IF THEY DID, THEN WHY DID THE CAPITOL POLICE REFUSE THE BACKUP OF MILITARY HELP?
 
I think a lot of the so called concerns about immigration are just scare mongering, so no I don't.

Seems like Trump's rhetoric on immigration is encouraging mass shootings like the ones we saw in El Paso and in the Tree of Life Synagogue, that seems extreme to me.


Except they are using Trump ideology as motivation for their rampages, it's not random with these guys.

YOur feelings are noted. I don't base my world view on the logic of madmen.

Yeah sure and using dog whistles like "globalist" that you saw on Storefront had nothing do with the rise of anti Semitism eh? Did you actually read that article?

Tell me does personal responsibility only apply to the peasants and not golden conservative elites like Trump?

" Globalism" is a real policy with real results that need disccused and judged. The people that support it, are "globalists" and they are real people that do important and powerful stuff, that needs discussed and addressed.


We can't ignore the real issues caused by this policy because some fringe groups associate it with jews.
 
A noose in the US is never just window dressing. Either you have never been to the US or are very ignorant of American history concerning nooses and the KKK, Neo-Confederates, and Southern States.

So if it was not for what it has written on it, then it must be to intimidate African Americans.
....


I stopped reading here. The PROP, was meant as a symbolic threat to AN OLD WHITE GUY.

Not everything is about blacks.
 
Well, then let's see.

It's not a prop. Whoever built it planned it, prefabricating the parts for it, the platform, the steps, and the pre-measured- precut 2x4 support beams, screws, nails, and bolts, to be portably carried there and quickly constructed. Take a close look at this picture.
View attachment 67537915
Note the steps on the left of the platform, and the large bolts at each corner connecting the platform to the pre-drilled support posts. Several full-sized men and women climbed onto it without any problem or hesitation as the structure was solid and stable. Whoever tied the noose knew what they were doing as well, That was a real noose, and judging by its color it would appear to be a nylon rope that would be strong enough to hang someone. The FBI took possession of that noose as evidence. If you think that structure was just a prop I would challenge you to put that noose around your neck jump off the platform, and see if it holds up. I fear you might no longer be around to report the results though.


Thanks buddy. A number of other lib posters were attacking me for complaining about the dishonest use of hte photo.


They said that no one would be dumb enough to think that the prop was a real gallows.


Their words, not mine. I think that the way that the media used the photo that is quite understandable that someone could be tricked into taking it seriously.

I posted another photo with a person standing next to it. THe prop is actually way too small to hang anyone. So...
 
So, the fbi did have assets as part of the rally?
The agents in DC on J 6 did not provoke the riot. You are promoting lies for trump.

So, they knew of any plans ahead of time. DID THEY INFORM THE CAPITOL POLICE? IF NOT, WHY NOT? IF THEY DID, THEN WHY DID THE CAPITOL POLICE REFUSE THE BACKUP OF MILITARY HELP?

They didn't expect protesters would go inside the Capitol. I'm not convinced trump was certain they would go inside. Do you understand the difference it makes between protesting outside compared to breaking in and forcing the legislators to evacuate?

But you are trying to mislead. Your suggestion is that someone other than trump is responsible, and that's the deception you seek. Trump is to blame for J6. The lies about election fraud and the self coup are his fault. Not the FBI , not Pelosi, it was trump. J6 could not possibly have happened without trump.
 
Of course your resort ad homian personal attacks. You have no argument; you lost.


Of course your resort ad homian personal attacks. You have no argument; you lost.


Mmmm, was I referring to YOU or to the mass murderers as "madmen"? Interesting question. personally I thought in context that the answer was clear.

BUT, by stripping away the context, you got to instead manufacture some outrage, and evade my point completely.


Yeah, nice and tricky of you. Of course, the fact that you feel a need to be so tricky, kind of shows that you know that YOU lost this debate.
 
Does it have the trapdoor to drop out from under the noose? That's how gallows worked. Not pushing people off. If Pushed/jump off, you swing back against structure, lose direct drop weight, can even get knees back up on platform. Very inefficient, might not even work. Hence the trap door.

Historically, they did that from the top of stuff, noose around neck, and just threw them off. That's hanging but not a gallows.

Just because they built it strong enough to support people standing on it doesnt make it a functioning gallows. But it still had to be big enough to be seen and intimidate.

☮️ 🇺🇸 ☮️
That's "hanging but not gallows"? Is there a difference really if the result is the same? Gallows with trap doors typically have a longer noose so that the momentum of the drop will be more likely to snap the neck, But it doesn't always work out that way. The gallows you described were constructed exactly as you described for the execution of the Lincoln assassination co-conspirators Mary Surratt, Lewis Powell, David Herold, and George Atzerodt. Surratt and Atzerodt appeared to die rather quickly. Powell and Herold however struggled for nearly 5 minutes, strangling to death. Note how short the noose was on the Jan 6 gallows and remember that the condemned typically will have hands and arms bound behind their backs and their legs bound together at the knees and the ankles. So stepping off it would not produce the kind of swing you describe but would likely result in the same sort of slow strangulation that befell Herold and Atzerodt. Either way, you're dead. The latter would certainly be more painful. So with that would you be willing to test out the functionality of the Jan 6 gallows for yourself?
 
That's "hanging but not gallows"? Is there a difference really if the result is the same? Gallows with trap doors typically have a longer noose so that the momentum of the drop will be more likely to snap the neck, But it doesn't always work out that way. The gallows you described were constructed exactly as you described for the execution of the Lincoln assassination co-conspirators Mary Surratt, Lewis Powell, David Herold, and George Atzerodt. Surratt and Atzerodt appeared to die rather quickly. Powell and Herold however struggled for nearly 5 minutes, strangling to death. Note how short the noose was on the Jan 6 gallows and remember that the condemned typically will have hands and arms bound behind their backs and their legs bound together at the knees and the ankles. So stepping off it would not produce the kind of swing you describe but would likely result in the same sort of slow strangulation that befell Herold and Atzerodt. Either way, you're dead. The latter would certainly be more painful. So with that would you be willing to test out the functionality of the Jan 6 gallows for yourself?

It is when discussing structures. And we're discussing the "meaning" of the gallows. They had to build their version for Jan 6 strong enough to support people standing on it so they could erect the scaffolding holding the noose. That doesnt mean it could hold the weight of a struggling male (like Pence) and again, it needs a trapdoor. All your details are irrelevant to the "meaning" of bringing a gallows to a protest.

They could have hung a noose or effigy from a tree in the plaza, or from the chain link fence or roof or walls of the Capitol. The gallows was meant as a historically known and visible threat, not to use.

And your threat is childish.

☮️ 🇺🇸 ☮️
 
Mmmm, was I referring to YOU or to the mass murderers as "madmen"? Interesting question. personally I thought in context that the answer was clear.

BUT, by stripping away the context, you got to instead manufacture some outrage, and evade my point completely.


Yeah, nice and tricky of you. Of course, the fact that you feel a need to be so tricky, kind of shows that you know that YOU lost this debate.
You flatter me but I must point out there was no trickery. Very interesting that you thought there was.
 
It is when discussing structures. And we're discussing the "meaning" of the gallows. They had to build their version for Jan 6 strong enough to support people standing on it so they could erect the scaffolding holding the noose. That doesnt mean it could hold the weight of a struggling male (like Pence) and again, it needs a trapdoor. All your details are irrelevant to the "meaning" of bringing a gallows to a protest.
If we are discussing structures and the meaning of the word "gallows," perhaps we should examine its meaning.
: a frame usually of two upright posts and a transverse beam from which a noose is suspended and that is used for executions by hanging
It certainly appears to me the structure constructed on Jan 6 fully meets that definition. Bolted 2x4s in that classic post and beam construction are inherently very sturdy.
They could have hung a noose or effigy from a tree in the plaza, or from the chain link fence or roof or walls of the Capitol. The gallows was meant as a historically known and visible threat, not to use.
They could have, but they didn't. They made it a very overt threat to the people within the Capitol by openly constructing it on the Capitol grounds. And how do you know they really wouldn't have used it?
And your threat is childish.

☮️ 🇺🇸 ☮️
It wasn't a threat. It was a challenge. One that you sound unsure of as you said "That doesn't mean that it could hold the weight of a struggling man." The inverse of that would be that it doesn't mean that it couldn't either. I believe it could have easily held the weight of a struggling male for however long it takes for him to die.
 
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