How Pentagon's Dark Eagle Hypersonic Missile Compares to Putin's Oreshnik (2 Viewers)

[Fledermaus]

That's kind of what I said.

Post number?

 

[Rogue Valley]

Hypersonic missiles are not “brand new”. They are a buzz word. The V-2 was a “hypersonic missile”.

Most ballistic missiles fly at hypersonic speeds — defined as Mach 5, or five times the speed of sound — but true hypersonics are maneuverable and can travel entirely within the Earth’s atmosphere to reach its velocity.

The intersection of the speed, maneuverability and range of hypersonics provide capabilities that are simply not provided by ballistic missiles.

 

[Questerr]

Most ballistic missiles fly at hypersonic speeds — defined as Mach 5, or five times the speed of sound — but true hypersonics are maneuverable and can travel entirely within the Earth’s atmosphere to reach its velocity.

The intersection of the speed, maneuverability and range of hypersonics provide capabilities that are simply not provided by ballistic missiles.

Theoretical maneuverability doesn’t translate to actual maneuverability in the real world. Hypersonic warheads lack the kind of advanced threat detectors they would need to maneuver in time to avoid intercept. They hold need radars with hundreds of miles of range at the speed they move.

 

[Rogue Valley]

Theoretical maneuverability doesn’t translate to actual maneuverability in the real world. Hypersonic warheads lack the kind of advanced threat detectors they would need to maneuver in time to avoid intercept. They hold need radars with hundreds of miles of range at the speed they move.

If hypersonics are not a new threat, why is the US MIC racing to produce an American version of what Russia and China are producing?

Real Clear Defense: The Imperative of Preparing U.S. for the Hypersonic Threat

 

[Questerr]

If hypersonics are not a new threat, why is the US MIC racing to produce an American version of what Russia and China are producing?

Real Clear Defense: The Imperative of Preparing U.S. for the Hypersonic Threat

Because the MIC wants a few new hundreds of billions of dollars.

There is are a few legitimate gaps in US weapons: we don’t have an intermediate range capability, we don’t have land based cruise missiles with decent range, and we don’t have an anti-ship missile with speeds above subsonic.

Get the buzzwords out of the way, and that’s what the weapons being developed are meant to do.

 

[Rogue Valley]

Because the MIC wants a few new hundreds of billions of dollars.

There is are a few legitimate gaps in US weapons: we don’t have an intermediate range capability, we don’t have land based cruise missiles with decent range, and we don’t have an anti-ship missile with speeds above subsonic.

Get the buzzwords out of the way, and that’s what the weapons being developed are meant to do.

If you say so. Everyone else is wrong I guess.

General Says Countering Hypersonic Weapons Is Imperative

Missile threats to the U.S. homeland and allies and partners abroad will only continue to grow, the commander of U.S. Northern Command and the North American Aerospace Defense Command said.

www.defense.gov

 

[Questerr]

If you say so. Everyone else is wrong I guess.

General Says Countering Hypersonic Weapons Is Imperative

Missile threats to the U.S. homeland and allies and partners abroad will only continue to grow, the commander of U.S. Northern Command and the North American Aerospace Defense Command said.

www.defense.gov

Generals are definitely not known for angling for executive jobs in MIC corps after retirement.

 

[OlNate]

 

[Rogue Valley]

Hypersonic missiles at center of new US arms race against Russia and China

The test was a major step in moving forward with the first operational deployment of a hypersonic missile, a U.S. defense official said.

www.newsweek.com

A hypersonic weapon can travel at Mach 5 or faster, which is greater than five times the speed of sound, and maneuver within the atmosphere. This type of superfast weapon is viewed as a "game-changer," as it can evade most of the air and missile defenses.

 

[Questerr]

Russian claims never match reality.

 

[Rich2018]

Russian claims never match reality.

Yet they seem to illicit a response from the West every time.

 

[Questerr]

Yet they seem to illicit a response from the West every time.

And then the West’s weapons end up being even more capable than the Russians wished theirs were.

 

[Rich2018]

And then the West’s weapons end up being even more capable than the Russians wished theirs were.

At a cost of $Billions.

 

[Questerr]

At a cost of $Billions.

Tends to end up being well spent in terms of saving servicemembers' lives.

 

[Oozlefinch]

The Russians and the Chinese have both publicly demonstrated working hypersonic missiles, the Russian version striking the Ukrainian city of Dnipro (Ukraine's 4th largest city) on 21 November 2024.

First of all, this is a completely nonsensical sentence.

Point number 1, all ballistic missiles are "hypersonic".

Point number 2, the Oreshnik is not the same thing as the LRHW (Long-Rage Hypersonic Weapon). The Oreshnik is an MIRVed IRBM, like any other IRBM. The LRHW is a surface boost non-MIRV glide vehicle, more akin to an unpowered TOMAHAWK once it finished the boost phase.

The two missiles are not even close. So trying to compare the two is like comparing Football to Soccer, or Baseball to Basketball because they all use balls.

 

[Oozlefinch]

Hypersonic missiles are a brand new technology.

They are not a "brand new technology". Every ballistic missile since the V-2 is "Hypersonic". And the Oreshnik is just another IRBM, like dozens that came before it.

 

[Oozlefinch]

The main advantage of hypersonic missiles is that they can defeat modern air-defense systems.

They travel at 3,800+mph and can be programmed to constantly and randomly change their trajectory on the way to their target.

No, they can not defeat air-defense systems. Have you forgotten that the SS-N-33 ZIRCON is a hypersonic missile? And they have been intercepted multiple times over Ukraine in the last year and a half.



And changing their trajectory means nothing. As they can not change it by very much, nor very often.

Why people try to give magical capabilities to new buzz word equipment, I have absolutely no idea. Other than they are drunk on the kool-aid the propagandists push out.

 

[Oozlefinch]

They aren’t really that much of an improvement. The maneuverability of SAMs/ABMs is comparable and they actually have external guidance with a lot more capability than the fairly basic threat warnings for hypersonic missile warheads.

The problem is that most have absolutely no idea how either ballistic missiles nor air defense missiles actually operate. That is why I hear such nonsensical things like "hypersonic is so fast air defense can't catch it".

A completely idiotic thing to say, as nobody fires air defense systems behind a missile to try to catch it. They fire from in front, and intercept them primarily in a head-on collision (or a slightly oblique one).

 

[Hamish Howl]

Because?

Because you stay a step ahead of your enemies if you know what's good for you.

 

[Oozlefinch]

And that is what most consider to be hypersonic weapons compared to ballistic missile

They are the same thing. For the most part, what Russia has been using as "Hypersonic Missiles" are just the same turds they have been using for decades. Just with a new coat of paint (or buzz words that nobody knows the meaning of so it can mean whatever they want them to mean).

 

[Oozlefinch]

Because you stay a step ahead of your enemies if you know what's good for you.

Honestly, I still question why the US is doing this. Other than some people insist that if Russia has some "Wonderwaffe", the US has better have one also.

And even more ironic, the US actually had hypersonic missiles over 60 years ago. But decided that they were ultimately rather pointless so abandoned them. And considering how effective they have been over Ukraine, they should be abandoned again. They really are a stupid concept, with no realistic purpose unless air superiority can not be achieved.

 

[Oozlefinch]

Here is a video that more than a few in here should take a few minutes to view. It will actually break down exactly what is involved.

 

[Hamish Howl]

Honestly, I still question why the US is doing this. Other than some people insist that if Russia has some "Wonderwaffe", the US has better have one also.

And even more ironic, the US actually had hypersonic missiles over 60 years ago. But decided that they were ultimately rather pointless so abandoned them. And considering how effective they have been over Ukraine, they should be abandoned again. They really are a stupid concept, with no realistic purpose unless air superiority can not be achieved.

You make an excellent point.

But I work in the MIC, and therefore my opinion is we should make more, and they should be faster, bigger, sexier, and self managing.

Skynet? Never heard of it.

 

[Hamish Howl]

Here is a video that more than a few in here should take a few minutes to view. It will actually break down exactly what is involved.

Oh, yeah. HLC. Good stuff.

 

[Oozlefinch]

Oh, yeah. HLC. Good stuff.

I love watching his videos, as we actually have pretty much the exact same background. I have not been in PATRIOT for a while, but his videos help keep me current in air defense.