How much is Afghanistan or America to blame?

[swing_voter]

How much is Afghanistan or America to blame?

Like they sometimes do in civil court, they assign percentages to each party. Like the famous McDonalds "hot coffee" case. They assigned the old lady who was burned 25% of the blame and McDonalds 75% of the blame.


.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Blame for what?

 

[vegas giants]

How much is Afghanistan or America to blame?

Like they sometimes do in civil court, they assign percentages to each party. Like the famous McDonalds "hot coffee" case. They assigned the old lady who was burned 25% of the blame and McDonalds 75% of the blame.


.

Blame for what?

 

[swing_voter]

How much is Afghanistan or America to blame?

Like they sometimes do in civil court, they assign percentages to each party. Like the famous McDonalds "hot coffee" case. They assigned the old lady who was burned 25% of the blame and McDonalds 75% of the blame.


.

Blame for what?

 

[ttwtt78640]

Blame for what?

That seems to make it unanimous.

 

[vegas giants]

Blame for what?

Ok its that game

 

[phoenix2020]

How much is Afghanistan or America to blame?

Like they sometimes do in civil court, they assign percentages to each party. Like the famous McDonalds "hot coffee" case. They assigned the old lady who was burned 25% of the blame and McDonalds 75% of the blame.


.

To blame for what?

 

[ttwtt78640]

To blame for what?

Starting a lame poll.

 

[Rexedgar]

Starting a lame poll.

Freaking pandemic!

 

[Fishking]

How much is Afghanistan or America to blame?

Like they sometimes do in civil court, they assign percentages to each party. Like the famous McDonalds "hot coffee" case. They assigned the old lady who was burned 25% of the blame and McDonalds 75% of the blame.

Mostly the fault lies with the Afghani people. It's on them to fight for, and establish a place worth living in. I don't know if there has been another modern country that has been given more time and support than they have, and it fell apart instantly. That smacks of cowardice, corruption, and terrible ideology and culture.

I don't think anyone could've pulled our troops out and gotten a much different result than what we're seeing now.

 

[phoenix2020]

Starting a lame poll.

Ah in that case, fault is 100% America’s.

 

[Common Sense 1]

Yes and no...... 25% to 100%!
Vote for lame poll.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Ah in that case, fault is 100% America’s.

That’s ‘Murcia according to the OP’s profile.

 

[swing_voter]

Mostly the fault lies with the Afghani people. It's on them to fight for, and establish a place worth living in. I don't know if there has been another modern country that has been given more time and support than they have, and it fell apart instantly. That smacks of cowardice, corruption, and terrible ideology and culture.

I don't think anyone could've pulled our troops out and gotten a much different result than what we're seeing now.

I think this hits it on the mark.

The Afghanis have no idea of what a democracy is, nor do they care about some imaginary country. They care about their tribal affiliations and that's it.

They don't care about freedom of the press or freedom of speech. They weren't about to die for democracy.


.

 

[post]

I think this hits it on the mark.

The Afghanis have no idea of what a democracy is, nor do they care about some imaginary country. They care about their tribal affiliations and that's it.

They don't care about freedom of the press or freedom of speech. They weren't about to die for democracy.


.

Baloney! U.S. civilian and military leadership lied / denied to themselves state of "training progress" of Afghan Nat. Defense for at least fifteen years and ignored lessons learned in Vietnam and later in Iraq. Def. Contractors and hardware manufacturers reaped the predictable bonanza...

Didn't he obstruct justice and resign in disgrace from DCI appointment? Why is the opinon of this disreputable
man, sought after?

Opinion | David Petraeus Reflects on the Afghan Debacle

He offers unsparing words about Trump and Biden, a defense of nation-building, and he says U.S. soldiers may have to re-enter Kabul in force to rescue Americans.

www.wsj.com

David Petraeus Reflects on the Afghan Debacle​

By Tunku Varadarajan
Aug. 20, 2021

He offers unsparing words about Trump and Biden, a defense of nation-building, and he says U.S. soldiers may have to re-enter Kabul in force to rescue Americans.​

David Petraeus on American Mistakes in Afghanistan​

https://www.newyorker.com › News › Afghanistan
1 day ago — "The former general defends Afghan troops and blames the speed of the ... And of course they are also being shot up by the Taliban."

(Blames the speed? After 20 years....at least 15 years of "kicking the can down the road"?)

Petraeus: Coalition has momentum in Afghanistan - Army.mil​

https://www.army.mil › article › petraeus_coalition_has...
Mar 15, 2011 — "The progress, Petraeus said, has put the NATO-led effort on the path to turn ... and virtually all include highly trained Afghan soldiers or ..."

Petraeus Sees Military Progress in Afghanistan - The New ...​

https://www.nytimes.com › World › Asia Pacific
Mar 8, 2011 — “The Taliban have never been under the pressure that they were put under over the course of the last 8 to 10 months,” he added. Other aspects of .

This post describes some of the consequences of spending $300 million per day in Afghanistan for 20 years.:

Do Consequences Indicate Since 1968, U.S. would be significantly stronger if no G.O.P. candidate was POTUS?

https://www.thedailybeast.com/biden-insiders-our-afghanistan-exit-is-a-part-of-a-much-bigger-reset Biden and his team have clearer memories of the long litany of egregious and crippling missteps America’s leaders made during the first years of this century than do their critics. David Rothkopf...

debatepolitics.com

 

[post]

Mostly the fault lies with the Afghani people. It's on them to fight for, and establish a place worth living in. I don't know if there has been another modern country that has been given more time and support than they have, and it fell apart instantly. That smacks of cowardice, corruption, and terrible ideology and culture.

I don't think anyone could've pulled our troops out and gotten a much different result than what we're seeing now.

I don't think Biden could have "kept our troops in" given the "shit sandwich" Trump dealt him...
How could Biden look even a single parent of a soldier wounded or killed as a result of a Biden order
to extend U.S. presence not directly related to immediate and final withdrawal?

I never ceased to be amazed at the willingness of fellow Americans to advocate for putting other Americans' sons and
daughters in harm's way. Doing so cannot be justified to attempt to extract "Afghans who helped us." if it requires advocating
it be accomplished by the children of fellow Americans now serving in uniform.

Taliban leaders go from jail, to negotiating table, to Kabul​

https://www.yahoo.com › now › prison-power-taliban-l...
3 days ago — Mullah Abdul Ghani Baradar Akhund returned to Afghanistan after nearly two decades on Tuesday, a reversal of fortune that saw him go from ...

Afghanistan to Release Last Taliban Prisoners, Removing ...​

https://www.nytimes.com › World › Asia Pacific
Aug 10, 2020 — The decision clears the way for the last of 5000 insurgents to be freed. President Ashraf Ghani announced the release after convening an ...

Trump's deal with the Taliban, explained - The Washington Post​

https://www.washingtonpost.com › politics › 2021/08/20
1 day ago — As criticism of the chaotic Afghanistan withdrawal continues to build, President Biden has argued that he effectively had little choice in ...

Was Biden handcuffed by Trump's Taliban deal in ... - AP News​

https://apnews.com › article › joe-biden-middle-east-tali...
2 days ago — WASHINGTON (AP) — As President Donald Trump's administration signed a peace deal with the Taliban in February 2020, he optimistically ...

 

[Fishking]

I don't think Biden could have "kept our troops in" given the "shit sandwich" Trump dealt him...

That you think it has anything specific to do with Trump shows you don't know what you're talking about. We've been in there 20 years. Nothing was going to change what happened much. We should've never attempted the nation building strategy. It was doomed to fail.

 

[Bullseye]

How much is Afghanistan or America to blame?

Like they sometimes do in civil court, they assign percentages to each party. Like the famous McDonalds "hot coffee" case. They assigned the old lady who was burned 25% of the blame and McDonalds 75% of the blame.


.

Blame for WHAT?

 

[Fishking]

I think this hits it on the mark.

The Afghanis have no idea of what a democracy is, nor do they care about some imaginary country. They care about their tribal affiliations and that's it.

They don't care about freedom of the press or freedom of speech. They weren't about to die for democracy.

Yup...there isn't so much of a concept of a national Afghanistan with many of the people. Tribe, province, and sectarianism at most.

 

[post]

Mostly the fault lies with the Afghani people. It's on them to fight for, and establish a place worth living in. I don't know if there has been another modern country that has been given more time and support than they have, and it fell apart instantly. That smacks of cowardice, corruption, and terrible ideology and culture.

I don't think anyone could've pulled our troops out and gotten a much different result than what we're seeing now.

That you think it has anything specific to do with Trump shows you don't know what you're talking about. We've been in there 20 years. Nothing was going to change what happened much. We should've never attempted the nation building strategy. It was doomed to fail.

My point was.... (and I think you know it.)

The Afghan defense force didn't just fall, it was pushed. And the visa process was "disincentivized".

But Biden should have "slowed down" while exposing remaining U.S. troops to Taliban increasing in strength resulting from
Doha (Fake) Peace Agreement effect and dismantled visa vetting process. How could he justify doing that? He's demonstrated a reluctance to exploit troops for political optics.

2021 High-Risk List

SIGAR released its 2021 High-Risk List, which brings attention to major sources of risk that expose $143 billion in Afghanistan reconstruction efforts to waste, fraud, abuse, mismanagement, or mission failure.

www.sigar.mil

Pence aide blames Stephen Miller for 'devastating' Afghan visas​

https://www.usatoday.com › news › politics › 2021/08/21
6 hours ago — Olivia Troye said Stephen Miller, a senior adviser to former President Donald Trump, undermined anyone trying to get the allies out of ...

Former Pence aide says Trump and Stephen Miller… - The ...​

https://www.independent.co.uk › ... › US politics
1 day ago — Former Pence aide says Trump fought against Afghan refugee visas. Donald

Inside the White House scramble to protect Afghan allies - Axios​

https://www.axios.com › Politics & Policy
3 days ago — A year without visa interviews in Kabul on top of the Taliban's rapid ... was no plan from the Trump administration on how to move Afghan ...

No Visas For Afghan And Iraqi Interpreters - NPR​

https://www.npr.org › 2019/05/01 › no-visas-for-afghan-...
May 1, 2019 — Trump Administration Has Drastically Dropped Visas For Afghan And Iraqi Interpreters ... Khalid al-Baidhani found out early about the risks of ...

 

[Cardinal]

I think probably America 100%, just because we didn't bother to sufficiently learn what makes their culture tick. If all you're doing is going in to kill a couple bad guys, fine. But if you're going to occupy a country and come out of it was some semblance of a successful outcome, you're gonna have to do some homework.

 

[Cardinal]

Yup...there isn't so much of a concept of a national Afghanistan with many of the people. Tribe, province, and sectarianism at most.

This. Tribalism is actually a more natural human condition. Going in and saying, "You're a unified, industrialized and democratic state with a fully functioning national bureaucracy now" was...overly hopeful, to use a euphemism.

 

[noonereal]

How much is Afghanistan or America to blame?

Blame!?

Blame for what?

We were attacked from Afghanistan, we went in, eliminated the threat and came home. This is an all American sucess story.

Joe should be holding welcome home parades for the soldiers.

It is an insane narrative the mass media has "inflicted" on the American public.

Think people, think!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Antiwar]

Blame!?

Blame for what?

We were attacked from Afghanistan, we went in, eliminated the threat and came home. This is an all American sucess story.

Joe should be holding welcome home parades for the soldiers.

It is an insane narrative the mass media has "inflicted" on the American public.

Think people, think!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Say what?

 

[noonereal]

Say what?

Read slow,
We were attacked from Afghanistan, we went in, eliminated the threat and came home. This is an all American sucess story.

Joe should be holding welcome home parades for the soldiers.

It is an insane narrative the mass media has "inflicted" on the American public.

peace