Proudly Pro Life JP Freem
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doughgirl said:Stace says"I have friends that have had abortions, and they are firmly pro choice. And yes, they were pro choice before the fact as well, so it's not a "defense of what they did". They shouldn't have to defend anything."
Well you are young so most people your age are pro-choice. I was too at your age. But let me tell you, things have a way of coming back to haunt you.
I had my abortion at 24 years old. I was an educated woman but uneducated about abortion. I walked in, paid the money, sat in line, got the abortion and didn't phase me one bit. The physical pain I thought about however. Got married at 25, had my first child at 26, my second at 28. I began to think a little bit about abortion along the way. The abortion I had happened to be my husbands child.
A few years later my sister had a child at 21 1/2 weeks. They called the family in to see her before they thought she would die. She was 1 pound, and smaller than a telephone receiver. You could literally see the blood running through her tiny veins. I stood there and had my FIRST PANIC ATTACK. Not because of her size or the fact that she might die but because of what I knew I had done. I talked to nurses about fetal growth and development and realized I had been wrong, totally wrong. Not many people get to see a little one this small. It literally shocks you. The whole neonatal unit was filled with little ones.
So I went through some depression. Probably ten years after that I became so depressed I had to seek counseling. I thought about suicide. All I could do was to think of what I had done, that I had taken a life. I did research and read and talked to people in the medical field. I couldn't function. It affected all aspects of my life. Nothing helped me. The facts spoke for themselves.
On 9-11 as those building came down I gave my life to Christ. I asked HIm to forgive me, and He did. I know I am forgiven in my heart, but the facts remain the same. I took a life.
I work for The Right To Life in my state, trying to witness about my experience and to educate woman about fetal development. Nine out of ten woman (even those pregnant) have no clue about the development of the child they carry. And when I work the booth at schools and fairs......I would say the vast majority do not know either.
Funny most men posting on here say, this isn't and shouldn't be an emotional issue. Wrong. The facts themselves make abortion an emotional issue. Every photograph of an aborted baby, every testimony of woman devastated by post abortion stress syndrome, every story of woman being lied to and exploited by the abortion industry is emotional. No wonder- since all the facts point one direction-abortion kills children. Pro-lifers like myself don't make this an emotional issue, it is an emotional issue. How could the killing of innocent children be anything less.
Pro choice advocates compensate for their lack of factual foundations by appealing to the emotions through horror stories of back alley abortions and pregnancies due to rape. Sometimes their treatment of the factual data is inaccurate in the extreme.
In 1961, Dr. Alan Guttmaucher director of Planned Parenthood wrote that when, "fertilization has taken place; a BABY has been conceived."
Landrum Shettles and David Rorvik, Rites of Life (Grand Rapids, Michigan: Zondervan Publishing House, 1983), 112-3.
A 1963 Planned Parenthood publication stated, "An abortion KILLS THE LIFE of a baby after it has begun." 'Plan Your Children for Health and Happiness" (New Yorklanned Parenthood-World Population, 1963), 1.
What PP knew then has since been proven. Abortion kills. The worlds biggest abortion provider and they admitted it in their literature. Of course now its a money making industry.......so they don't say it today. They do not want their old literature out and they do not share this information with the public. The old stuff doesn't serve their agenda today.
I know from experience that for every abortion there are two victims, one dead and one damaged. Your friends might be fine today, but tomorrow just might be another story. You can't tell me with 100% certainty that they will not go through what I did. Look at the men and woman that suffer with psychological trouble after wars.
Woman do not have to lie to themselves about what they are doing at the moment the abortion takes place, I believe they know. And most woman who have had abortions will tell you it was not their finest hour. Many woman remain haunted by guilt feelings that never go away.
doughgirl said:Stace says"I have friends that have had abortions, and they are firmly pro choice. And yes, they were pro choice before the fact as well, so it's not a "defense of what they did". They shouldn't have to defend anything."
Well you are young so most people your age are pro-choice. I was too at your age. But let me tell you, things have a way of coming back to haunt you.
I had my abortion at 24 years old. I was an educated woman but uneducated about abortion. I walked in, paid the money, sat in line, got the abortion and didn't phase me one bit. The physical pain I thought about however. Got married at 25, had my first child at 26, my second at 28. I began to think a little bit about abortion along the way. The abortion I had happened to be my husbands child.
A few years later my sister had a child at 21 1/2 weeks. They called the family in to see her before they thought she would die. She was 1 pound, and smaller than a telephone receiver. You could literally see the blood running through her tiny veins. I stood there and had my FIRST PANIC ATTACK. Not because of her size or the fact that she might die but because of what I knew I had done. I talked to nurses about fetal growth and development and realized I had been wrong, totally wrong. Not many people get to see a little one this small. It literally shocks you. The whole neonatal unit was filled with little ones.
So I went through some depression. Probably ten years after that I became so depressed I had to seek counseling. I thought about suicide. All I could do was to think of what I had done, that I had taken a life. I did research and read and talked to people in the medical field. I couldn't function. It affected all aspects of my life. Nothing helped me. The facts spoke for themselves.
On 9-11 as those building came down I gave my life to Christ. I asked HIm to forgive me, and He did. I know I am forgiven in my heart, but the facts remain the same. I took a life.
I work for The Right To Life in my state, trying to witness about my experience and to educate woman about fetal development. Nine out of ten woman (even those pregnant) have no clue about the development of the child they carry. And when I work the booth at schools and fairs......I would say the vast majority do not know either.
Funny most men posting on here say, this isn't and shouldn't be an emotional issue. Wrong. The facts themselves make abortion an emotional issue. Every photograph of an aborted baby, every testimony of woman devastated by post abortion stress syndrome, every story of woman being lied to and exploited by the abortion industry is emotional. No wonder- since all the facts point one direction-abortion kills children. Pro-lifers like myself don't make this an emotional issue, it is an emotional issue. How could the killing of innocent children be anything less.
Pro choice advocates compensate for their lack of factual foundations by appealing to the emotions through horror stories of back alley abortions and pregnancies due to rape. Sometimes their treatment of the factual data is inaccurate in the extreme.
In 1961, Dr. Alan Guttmaucher director of Planned Parenthood wrote that when, "fertilization has taken place; a BABY has been conceived."
Landrum Shettles and David Rorvik, Rites of Life (Grand Rapids, Michigan: Zondervan Publishing House, 1983), 112-3.
A 1963 Planned Parenthood publication stated, "An abortion KILLS THE LIFE of a baby after it has begun." 'Plan Your Children for Health and Happiness" (New Yorklanned Parenthood-World Population, 1963), 1.
What PP knew then has since been proven. Abortion kills. The worlds biggest abortion provider and they admitted it in their literature. Of course now its a money making industry.......so they don't say it today. They do not want their old literature out and they do not share this information with the public. The old stuff doesn't serve their agenda today.
I know from experience that for every abortion there are two victims, one dead and one damaged. Your friends might be fine today, but tomorrow just might be another story. You can't tell me with 100% certainty that they will not go through what I did. Look at the men and woman that suffer with psychological trouble after wars.
Woman do not have to lie to themselves about what they are doing at the moment the abortion takes place, I believe they know. And most woman who have had abortions will tell you it was not their finest hour. Many woman remain haunted by guilt feelings that never go away.
doughgirl said:This is what I do not get. You're pro-choice, you say abortion is not murder and that it's basically nothing. So why would you hate that group using it for birth control?......So they pay the money, so what? If you think its not morally bad, then why would you think that way?
doughgirl said:"Anyway, she doesn't seem to feel any remorse or regret over the abortions, and trust me, she is not one to hide her emotions about ANYTHING."
I kept mine bottled up for years. People can put on good shows and I did just that. Abortion is different than other things. It's not conversation one has with people especially if your the one who has had one. How many people do you know that outwardly admit and talk like they are proud of having an abortion?
You also said, " She's part of the group that I can't stand....using abortion as a form of birth control. Having one abortion is one thing....but when you're having multiple abortions, you need to seriously think about your lifestyle choices."
This is what I do not get. You're pro-choice, you say abortion is not murder and that it's basically nothing. So why would you hate that group using it for birth control?......So they pay the money, so what? If you think its not morally bad, then why would you think that way?
"Age has nothing to do with it. Many people are wise beyond their years."
WEll...........I was brought up to respect my elders. Kids your age aren't brought up that way anymore. You do not look to them for wisdom. I happen to believe that they are for the most part wiser about most things. I am not saying that there aren't kids your age or my childrens ages that are not mature.........but if I had to have a discussion or go ask advise about a problem.......it wouldnt be to someone your age. I think there is something to be said about aging.
Regardless of your hyperbole, it is alegal, surgical removal of tissue, nothing more.doughgirl said:NOT A VIOLENT CRIME?????? What in the hell do you classify dismemberment of an unborn child while the heart is beating?
Sure.Do you have any idea what the abortion procedure does?
Ah, we get it. If we are not emotionally showcked into histrionics, we must just not be "getting" it, because YOU were so shocked?Obviously you do not. I would suggest looking into it. I am to shocked at your statement to say anything right now.
AMEN!steen said:It is all about emotional fervor with the prolifrs, with not a lick of facts or logic. Pathetic.
doughgirl said:Stace said, "I've never stated whether or not I thought abortion was morally wrong. I don't look at it in those terms, because every individual person follows their own moral code, so what's morally wrong to me may not be so to the next person. It's not my place to tell someone else what is right and/or what is wrong, when it's not my life."
Then you wouldn't do anything about your neighbors abusing their children, right?
Do you think its ok to abort at 8 months? You will say yes of course because you wouldnt want to impose your morals on another womans right to choose? :rofl
Whose life is the childs in the womb? Does the mother own the life of her child? If she did, no court in the land would do anything to her if she hurt her kids. No court would take kids away from mothers if they owned them.
I do not own my two children. They used my womb to grow and i nurtured them. They had their own bloodtypes, DNA, organs, arms, legs........
You said, "I think that using abortion as a method of birth control is not the smartest idea in the book."
You say they aren't doing anything bad. So why do you feel this way? It"s expensive but why do you feel the woman should make a lifestyle change if in your opinion she is doing nothing wrong.
EXACTLY !!!!!!!!!!!!
Didn't you know? Thats a neo-con's way of winning debate.Stace said:so please stop trying to misconstrue and twist everything I say to try and suit your own purposes.
independent_thinker2002 said:How ironic is it that a pro-lifer would think about suicide?
So it certainly is sad when prolifers try for emotional silliness and "we must therefore be right" cheapness.George_Washington said:Anybody can think of suicide regardless of their political views. Suicide is a serious symptom of depression and isn't something that should be made the spectacle of jokes.
steen said:So it certainly is sad when prolifers try for emotional silliness and "we must therefore be right" cheapness.
Sad when such a serious situation is cheapened by prolife political exploitation
George_Washington said:Anybody can think of suicide regardless of their political views. Suicide is a serious symptom of depression and isn't something that should be made the spectacle of jokes.
That would be more than 99% of abortions. And that last percent, that deals with medical isues and/or the woman's life or health.goligoth said:Abortions before the fetus is developed enough to survive aren't bad....or they might be bad but they should be allowed....the fetus is just a clump of cells until that point
Do you know whether it is "silly" in HER life? Are you the expert in her life, to know this?The thing about abortions being used for birth control is bad.....I think that the woman should have a reason for the abortion....health, or medically related , but not because she doesn't want the kid or because it would be a scandal, or any other silly reason along those lines.
Well, we have done this many times, with prolifers utterly and completely ignoring it. So as there is no real debate, why should we put the effort into debate and evidence?Yes it is sad when a pro-lifer rants on and on about their god and about emotions
but it is also sad when all of the pro-choicers rant on about the pro-lifers 'silly positions' without ever supporting their own position...
steen said:That would be more than 99% of abortions. And that last percent, that deals with medical isues and/or the woman's life or health.
Do you know whether it is "silly" in HER life? Are you the expert in her life, to know this?
Well, we have done this many times, with prolifers utterly and completely ignoring it. So as there is no real debate, why should we put the effort into debate and evidence?
Through lies, deceptions, misrepresentations, revisionist linguistics, hyperbole and other dishonesty?FISHX said:Pride Honesty Integrity?
Through lies, deceptions, misrepresentations, revisionist linguistics, hyperbole and other dishonesty? I guess that for prolife, the goal justifies the means.Or there is always the chance that you could educate someone in certian points if not all
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