How many more??? [W:611]

[Jerry]

And while those on the far right spend precious time and energy pursuing and pushing the cause celebre of vocabulary, the American people and even NRA members have supported all gun sales getting background checks. I will take that trade off any day of the week. Keep arguing vocabulary while the people of the nation turn against you.

I'm not a member of the Right so your comment doesn't apply to me.

 

[Fisher]

If this were a kindergarten class of black faces in the Ghetto, people wouldn't care so much. Since it wasn't, this is all knee-jerk reactionary crap.

 

[TurtleDude]

Wrong. In a representative democracy where those who pass laws must get elected by the people, popularity to the tune of over 90% can mean a great great deal.

Of course, the will of the people probably means little to the extremists on the far right who prepare for the day when they can kill the police officer down the street all in the name of their perverted idea of liberty.

what is right or wrong is not dependent on ignorant masses. Most people have no clue that the only way to enforce imposes background checks on those who have no current (and never had a) duty to record and have open records of guns they own or sold is to make everyone register their firearms

most people don't understand that the FIFTH amendment prevents those most likely to buy a gun illegally from registering it

like most of the stuff your party advocates-it doesn't impact criminals and hassles conservative gun owners

 

[BretJ]

Sorry but universal background checks ARE NOT in place across the nation.

Ummmm..where in the list of the things you posted and I quoted, did it say anything about universal background checks????
Maybe I missed it....

"74 percent of NRA members believe concealed carry permits should only be granted to applicants who have completed gun safety training." - No mention of universal background checks. Check.

"68 percent of NRA members believe concealed carry permits should only be granted to applicants who do not have prior arrests for domestic violence." - No mention of universal background checks. Check.

"63 percent of NRA members believe concealed carry permits should only be granted to applicants 21 years of age or older." - No mention of universal background checks. Check.

"75 percent of NRA members believe that concealed carry permits should be granted only to those applicants who have not committed any violent misdemeanors." - No mention of universal background checks. Check.

Is it that vocabulary thing you mentioned a couple posts back that is an issue?

 

[TurtleDude]

Sorry but universal background checks ARE NOT in place across the nation.

that's because they won't pass muster of those who understand the laws. Its why congress refused to apply them in 1993. and when the current debate starts-listen to what your dem party office holders state when asked how this law will be enforced as to people who have no duty to keep a record of what they own or sold

 

[haymarket]

Should the day come that you are a victim of a crime, if the criminal is armed I would like you to demand to see their proof of registration before cooperating with any demand.

If they cannot produce proof of registration and a permit, I want you to turn around and walk away.

That comment makes no sense on any level as a reply to what you reprinted from me.

 

[haymarket]

I'm not a member of the Right so your comment doesn't apply to me.

So now a self labeled conservative is suddenly not on the right anymore?

Others disagree.

http://www.pages.drexel.edu/~ls39/com330/political_continuum.htm

 

[TurtleDude]

So now a self labeled conservative is suddenly not on the right anymore?

well Jerry is USUALLY RIGHT when it comes to gun issues so you might have a point

 

[haymarket]

what is right or wrong is not dependent on ignorant masses. Most people have no clue that the only way to enforce imposes background checks on those who have no current (and never had a) duty to record and have open records of guns they own or sold is to make everyone register their firearms

most people don't understand that the FIFTH amendment prevents those most likely to buy a gun illegally from registering it

Again, you miss the point. We live in a representative democracy where the people vote for those who write the laws. If over 90% of the people come down on the side of a certain issue, that is a force to be reckoned with or else those who resist may pay the price at the ballot box.

 

[haymarket]

Ummmm..where in the list of the things you posted and I quoted, did it say anything about universal background checks????
Maybe I missed it....

You did not miss it. You intentionally and purposelly left it out of the stats that your reproduced from my post which included this

74 percent of the NRA members said they support the background checks.

 

[haymarket]

that's because they won't pass muster of those who understand the laws. Its why congress refused to apply them in 1993. and when the current debate starts-listen to what your dem party office holders state when asked how this law will be enforced as to people who have no duty to keep a record of what they own or sold

So why then do many states now have the same procedure and it is Constitutional?

If this is so cut and dried and it cannot happen why are you the only one talking this line of argument?

 

[TurtleDude]

Again, you miss the point. We live in a representative democracy where the people vote for those who write the laws. If over 90% of the people come down on the side of a certain issue, that is a force to be reckoned with or else those who resist may pay the price at the ballot box.

YOu are wrong again, we live in a constitutional republic where the rights of the minority cannot be trampled by the ignorant masses and the assholes in office who pander to mediocrity.

and you should know -as a self proclaimed advisor to politicians-that polls are deceptive/ Clinton admitted he though most americans would support his gun laws in 1993 and early 1994 only to see his party take one of the worst midterm ass kicking of all times-mainly because the people who claimed they favored those idiotic gun bans didn't do much to support those who voted for the bans while we who were pissed about them worked hard to wreak voting day vengeance on the gun haters. I gave thousands to pro gun candidates including Steve Chabot who booted anti gunner David Mann out of office in what had been a democrat held district.

 

[TurtleDude]

Again, you miss the point. We live in a representative democracy where the people vote for those who write the laws. If over 90% of the people come down on the side of a certain issue, that is a force to be reckoned with or else those who resist may pay the price at the ballot box.

uh how are you going to prove a gun I have owned for 10 years and is now owned by one of my good friends was transferred AFTER the silly law is passed?

 

[haymarket]

YOu are wrong again, we live in a constitutional republic where the rights of the minority cannot be trampled by the ignorant masses and the assholes in office who pander to mediocrity.

and you should know -as a self proclaimed advisor to politicians-that polls are deceptive/ Clinton admitted he though most americans would support his gun laws in 1993 and early 1994 only to see his party take one of the worst midterm ass kicking of all times-mainly because the people who claimed they favored those idiotic gun bans didn't do much to support those who voted for the bans while we who were pissed about them worked hard to wreak voting day vengeance on the gun haters. I gave thousands to pro gun candidates including Steve Chabot who booted anti gunner David Mann out of office in what had been a democrat held district.

The events and Constitutional changes of the last century have changed the former Constitutional republic into a democratic republic with a Constitution. That is just reality no matter how the right may not like it.

As to being trampled upon - the minority on a public policy question loses every day. As long as their Constitutional rights are not violated - they can lose and lose big to the majority. That is just the way it is in a representative democracy. Perhaps the Health Care law rings a bell or two?

When poll after poll indicates the same thing - it means something. You are sounding just like the Romney supporters in the last days of the election who dismissed the polls because their man was behind. We found out the polls were correct.

 

[haymarket]

uh how are you going to prove a gun I have owned for 10 years and is now owned by one of my good friends was transferred AFTER the silly law is passed?

How do they handle such a question in the states which already have this law in effect? That would answer your question.

 

[BretJ]

You did not miss it. You intentionally and purposelly left it out of the stats that your reproduced from my post which included this

Hahahaha. Wow...I was stating that the stats that I copied are already in place. Basically they are irrelevant to your background check issue. I was not questioning the background check. I was questioning the other stats you had posted so yes, yes I did leave out that stat. Purposefully as well. Read my statement, "where in the list of the things you posted and I quoted"....unbelievable.

 

[Jerry]

So now a self labeled conservative is suddenly not on the right anymore?

Others disagree.

Political Continuum

"Suddenly"?

We've been petitioning DebatePolitics.com to change the Conservative User-Group icon for nearly 4 years.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/feedback-suggestions/49247-conservative-user-group.html

Seriously, where the hell have you been? Conservatives officially abandoned the GOP right before Bush was reelected. Do you live under a rock or what?

 

[LaMidRighter]

I've finally come up with a math formula that can answer the question.
X = weight of the constitutional right
y = guarantee of safety
z = stated intent of the gun control discussion
t = actual usefullness of those laws.

So 100X - 2Y / (1z X 0t) = 500trillion 650million 375thousand six hundred and fifty

 

[haymarket]

Hahahaha. Wow...I was stating that the stats that I copied are already in place. Basically they are irrelevant to your background check issue. I was not questioning the background check. I was questioning the other stats you had posted so yes, yes I did leave out that stat. Purposefully as well. Read my statement, "where in the list of the things you posted and I quoted"....unbelievable.

And what you did was dishonest becuase you left out the stat on the background checks and then tried to make a point about the rest when it was PRECISELY the challenge from another poster ON THE BLOODY BACKGROUND CHECKS that demanded I print the survey.

 

[TurtleDude]

How do they handle such a question in the states which already have this law in effect? That would answer your question.

they require people who want to sell guns to others to go through a dealer

of course those with records still manage to get guns

 

[haymarket]

"Suddenly"?

We've been petitioning DebatePolitics.com to change the Conservative User-Group icon for nearly 4 years.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/feedback-suggestions/49247-conservative-user-group.html

Seriously, where the hell have you been? Conservatives officially abandoned the GOP right before Bush was reelected. Do you live under a rock or what?

I sure as hell have NOT been in that thread and it makes no difference to me in any way shape or form. The so-called 'rock' I live under is called AMERICAN REALITY. And in self proclaimed conservatives are on the right of the spectrum.

But I tell you what = lets each put up a grand and if I cannot find ten sources that do likewise - you win. If I can find ten sources placing conservatives on the right of the spectrum - you pay me.

Ready?

 

[haymarket]

they require people who want to sell guns to others to go through a dealer

of course those with records still manage to get guns

As I have said. The private sale loophole - or the gunshow loophole is closed. People who violate the law are now risking prison.

 

[TurtleDude]

As I have said. The private sale loophole - or the gunshow loophole is closed. People who violate the law are now risking prison.

people who misuse guns have always risked prison. criminals who own guns risk prison. tell me what exactly your beloved law does that is different and more effective.

and calling it a loophole sort of demonstrates your desire not to accurately discuss the law

 

[haymarket]

people who misuse guns have always risked prison. criminals who own guns risk prison. tell me what exactly your beloved law does that is different and more effective.

and calling it a loophole sort of demonstrates your desire not to accurately discuss the law

It is a tool to be used in the effort to fight for public safety.

Why does this discussion remind me so much of the obsession with you insisting on "death taxes" and now you insist that there is not a "gun show loophole" even when it happens at a gun show? What is with these obsessions with vocablulary that the far right is engaged in?

 

[BretJ]

And what you did was dishonest becuase you left out the stat on the background checks and then tried to make a point about the rest when it was PRECISELY the challenge from another poster ON THE BLOODY BACKGROUND CHECKS that demanded I print the survey.

LoL...For crying out loud I agree with background checks! I was questioning using the other stats that I highlighted as they were not relevant to your argument and they were already in place. Wow... :roll: