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How is incest any different from homosexuality?

I’d suggest a key practical difference is that homosexual is something people are while incest is something people do. There are, and always have been, a proportion of the population who are fundamentally attracted, romantically, emotionally and sexually, to people of the same sex. There isn’t anyone who is fundamentally attracted to people they’re closely genetically related to. Legal and social restrictions on grounds of homosexuality impact homosexuals before they’ve even considered engaging in any relationships and continues to impact them indefinitely. Restrictions on incest only impact anyone form the point they engage in particular relationships though to when/if those relationships end. Objections towards homosexuality can also tend to be more generally discriminatory, targeting that fundamental set of people regardless of what they’re actively doing at any given time. Objections towards incest tend to be more direct and only apply to people actively doing or promoting it.

All this not only changes the scale and scope of the moral and legal positions but also the practicality of protests and campaigns to change them.
 
is this a question for me Jane...or just in general?
In general. And as I was typing it out, I kept thinking, "stay out of this thread; it's going to end badly."
 
Oh, and one other question. Didn't the OP just say "incest" with no other definition? There's a huge difference between sexual relations between adult 1st cousins, for example, and between parents and their children. I think in some areas (not sure about any state in the U.S.) that includes step-parents, as far as being charged with the crime of incest.
 
I personally would have no issue of sex between 1st cousins IF and only IF they were reared apart

any other type of incest is not victimless

Why would it matter if the cousins were reared apart?

And why is incest between two consenting adults any more or less victimless than any other sex between two consenting adults?
 
Why would it matter if the cousins were reared apart?
because reared in the same household sets up a family dynamic which involves too many psychological components involving power and influence

And why is incest between two consenting adults any more or less victimless than any other sex between two consenting adults?
it is not victimless, that is my point

incest between two consenting adults that are genetically closely linked can never be victimless due to the family dynamic

recently there was a case where a mother had given her son up for adoption and they had recently reconnected

they "fell in love" and wanted to marry...the victim here is the son, he will always be the son, the mother will always be the mother...husband and wife can't happen
 
Currently the views on incest in America are very negative while the views on homosexuality are very positive. In the case for 1st cousin marriage, it varies from state to state. While California and Colorado see absolutely no problem with it, Arizona requires one of the parties to be sterile or it will be void. Texas outright prohibits first cousin marriage (and even sexual activity) but marriages are not void.

Here's a wikipedia article of incest laws in the US: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_regarding_incest_in_the_United_States

As with homosexuality, the supreme court ruled sodomy laws to be unconstitutional and as of 2015, the supreme court ruled that gay marriage is protected by the US constitution and is thus legal in all 50 states. But here you have most states give you years in prison and some of them even go up to LIFE IMPRISONMENT for a victimless crime. If that's not bad enough, you get put on the sex offender list even if both of you are over the age of consent.

Even Europe isn't safe from bigotry. Let's look at the one for "socially progressive" Dennmark:



However, Spain and Russia legalize all sex betweeen consenting adults though the latter bans marriage within the nuclear family.

Given these laws in the US and Europe, China probably offers life imprisonment for incest:



So doing it with your sister will get you years in prison in the land of the free but it's perfectly legal in communist china.

Given that homosexuality was pretty much in the same place half a century ago, we could see things change by 2050 and certainly by 2100.

Incest in situations where they live together or influence each other from childbirth or adoption - in the early years - is a concern because it's very easy to mentally groom someone to believe it's desirable and acceptable to **** their dad or their brother or their aunt.

Homosexuality isn't a matter of being groomed to accept it or do it. People are born attracted to the same sex. *shrug*
 
because reared in the same household sets up a family dynamic which involves too many psychological components involving power and influence

it is not victimless, that is my point

incest between two consenting adults that are genetically closely linked can never be victimless due to the family dynamic

recently there was a case where a mother had given her son up for adoption and they had recently reconnected

they "fell in love" and wanted to marry...the victim here is the son, he will always be the son, the mother will always be the mother...husband and wife can't happen

Sounds like a lot of opinion with no facts to back it up.
 
It was the family's distinguishing trait, originally.

The problem was that they married cousins for so damn long that the thing eventually became cartoonishly exaggerated, and deformed looking. The last few members of the line could barely feed themselves, and had trouble breathing due to how far their noses were sunk into their face.

And were the reason Spanish spoken in Spain differs from the Spanish in the New World...

If the king lisps, everyone lisps....
 
your conclusion of what that "sounds like" is not relevant to the topic

if you want to discuss facts, throw a fact out there and we will discuss it

so far zero 'facts' have been presented by either side

I'm up for it

You posted your opinion on a couple of issues with no facts to back it up. I commented.

Now you claim I must post facts to dispute your opinions.

Post some facts and I may comment.
 
You posted your opinion on a couple of issues with no facts to back it up. I commented.

Now you claim I must post facts to dispute your opinions.

Post some facts and I may comment.

:lamo

I posted an opinion based on my knowledge of psychology and group/family dynamics

you did not refute that opinion with any fact, you made a comment

I made a comment about your comment

see how that works....

so what precisely would you like please be clear, you can't just vaguely say you want a fact...you want a fact about what exactly?

incest...okay here's a fact

the fact is there are currently laws governing family incest...as a general whole we as a society have supported those laws

in fact generally speaking most societies (small tribes) refrain from incest within the tribe...it's inherent from the beginning of time...why is that, why do you think that within a tribe a it is taboo to mate with ones children?

the OP is questioning the value of those laws
 
:lamo

I posted an opinion based on my knowledge of psychology and group/family dynamics

you did not refute that opinion with any fact, you made a comment

I made a comment about your comment

see how that works....

so what precisely would you like please be clear, you can't just vaguely say you want a fact...you want a fact about what exactly?

incest...okay here's a fact

the fact is there are currently laws governing family incest...as a general whole we as a society have supported those laws

in fact generally speaking most societies (small tribes) refrain from incest within the tribe...it's inherent from the beginning of time...why is that, why do you think that within a tribe a it is taboo to mate with ones children?

the OP is questioning the value of those laws

I get the OP's point, and I agree with it. Assuming consenting adults, where do we draw the line?

You are confusing sex with procreation, which is generally the argument whether the group is a small tribe or a nation. Most sex does not result in babies, and in this time in history there is no reason to assume that birth control is not 100% effective if the partners so desire.

Government has no real business intruding in the sex life of consenting adults.
 
I get the OP's point, and I agree with it. Assuming consenting adults, where do we draw the line?

You are confusing sex with procreation, which is generally the argument whether the group is a small tribe or a nation. Most sex does not result in babies, and in this time in history there is no reason to assume that birth control is not 100% effective if the partners so desire.

Government has no real business intruding in the sex life of consenting adults.
I am not confusing anything

sex between two consenting adults is fine

incest can not be defined as such because victimization is involved

would you condone a father having sex with his adult son or daughter?
 
I am not confusing anything

sex between two consenting adults is fine

incest can not be defined as such because victimization is involved


would you condone a father having sex with his adult son or daughter?

Those are two conflicting statements back to back.

Would I condone? Sex with my sister or my mother is not my thing. But the operative term is consenting adults.

I have seen no evidence that family dynamics have any relevant part in the issue. I don't understand who exactly is harmed if it happens.
 
Those are two conflicting statements back to back.

Would I condone? Sex with my sister or my mother is not my thing. But the operative term is consenting adults.

I have seen no evidence that family dynamics have any relevant part in the issue. I don't understand who exactly is harmed if it happens.
they are not conflicting statements jimbo

a parent has influenced and raised their child therefore there will never be an equal balance of power...if there is not an equal balance of power there can be no consent

no parent should look at their child with lust in their heart, it is child abuse at its worst

children must be protected from that

if the child was not raised by the parent there is even more cause for concern...feelings of guilt and abandonment should not lead to sexual interaction

it's psychologically very complex

how is that unclear?
 
Currently the views on incest in America are very negative while the views on homosexuality are very positive. In the case for 1st cousin marriage, it varies from state to state. While California and Colorado see absolutely no problem with it, Arizona requires one of the parties to be sterile or it will be void. Texas outright prohibits first cousin marriage (and even sexual activity) but marriages are not void.

Here's a wikipedia article of incest laws in the US: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_regarding_incest_in_the_United_States

As with homosexuality, the supreme court ruled sodomy laws to be unconstitutional and as of 2015, the supreme court ruled that gay marriage is protected by the US constitution and is thus legal in all 50 states. But here you have most states give you years in prison and some of them even go up to LIFE IMPRISONMENT for a victimless crime. If that's not bad enough, you get put on the sex offender list even if both of you are over the age of consent.

Even Europe isn't safe from bigotry. Let's look at the one for "socially progressive" Dennmark:



However, Spain and Russia legalize all sex betweeen consenting adults though the latter bans marriage within the nuclear family.

Given these laws in the US and Europe, China probably offers life imprisonment for incest:



So doing it with your sister will get you years in prison in the land of the free but it's perfectly legal in communist china.

Given that homosexuality was pretty much in the same place half a century ago, we could see things change by 2050 and certainly by 2100.


One is abuse, one is between consenting adults.

Duh.
 
they are not conflicting statements jimbo

a parent has influenced and raised their child therefore there will never be an equal balance of power...if there is not an equal balance of power there can be no consent

no parent should look at their child with lust in their heart, it is child abuse at its worst

children must be protected from that

if the child was not raised by the parent there is even more cause for concern...feelings of guilt and abandonment should not lead to sexual interaction

it's psychologically very complex

how is that unclear?

There is nothing in your post that is anything more than opinion. Other's have a different opinion. Sex with my relatives or my neighbors is not my thin, so I have no opinion in the matter, but I understand people who do.

The dynamics of power is a bogus argument. Very few relationships consist of two (or more) exactly equal partners. Again, the operative term is consenting adult.
 
Currently the views on incest in America are very negative while the views on homosexuality are very positive. In the case for 1st cousin marriage, it varies from state to state. While California and Colorado see absolutely no problem with it, Arizona requires one of the parties to be sterile or it will be void. Texas outright prohibits first cousin marriage (and even sexual activity) but marriages are not void.

Here's a wikipedia article of incest laws in the US: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_regarding_incest_in_the_United_States

As with homosexuality, the supreme court ruled sodomy laws to be unconstitutional and as of 2015, the supreme court ruled that gay marriage is protected by the US constitution and is thus legal in all 50 states. But here you have most states give you years in prison and some of them even go up to LIFE IMPRISONMENT for a victimless crime. If that's not bad enough, you get put on the sex offender list even if both of you are over the age of consent.

Even Europe isn't safe from bigotry. Let's look at the one for "socially progressive" Dennmark:



However, Spain and Russia legalize all sex betweeen consenting adults though the latter bans marriage within the nuclear family.

Given these laws in the US and Europe, China probably offers life imprisonment for incest:



So doing it with your sister will get you years in prison in the land of the free but it's perfectly legal in communist china.

Given that homosexuality was pretty much in the same place half a century ago, we could see things change by 2050 and certainly by 2100.

Incest and homosexuality are mutually exclusive. Incest is a sexual act between biologically related persons. Homosexuality is a sexual orientation.

And now that you've brought up Texas....

I'm a native Texan, been here many decades and the State Legislature has been loaded with radicalized WACKADOS for decades. Nothing they do surprises me anymore. Texas would become a fascist nation if it actually seceded from the Union.
 
There is nothing in your post that is anything more than opinion.
as is yours...nor have I claimed it to be

Other's have a different opinion.
obviously although I do see anyone but you flocking to support it

Sex with my relatives or my neighbors is not my thin, so I have no opinion in the matter
your kids OR neighbours...how bizarre but okay...and you do have an opinion since you just stated it...you are of the opinion that it is fine but you choose not to

but I understand people who do.
have opinions or sex with their kids?

The dynamics of power is a bogus argument.
in your opinion

Very few relationships consist of two (or more) exactly equal partners.
very few relationships consist of sex with their children, or between brothers or between sisters or between brothers and sisters because most people find it repugnant
Again, the operative term is consenting adult
all I can say is I find your opinion to be interesting in the extreme
you are one of the first people I have encountered in my whole life that is of the opinion that sex within a family is okay once the kids reach adulthood :eek:

not much surprises me but that opinion certainly does...
 
Incest can produce offspring. Homosexuality cannot.

Anything else?

That is what abortions are for..... One could argue however that one is biologically viable and the other not...meh...
 
if it's between 2 consenting adults then it shouldn't be illegal

China also has 1 child law, so i guess they figure if you want your 1 kid ever to be a deformed freak, so be it

To my knowledge no one is *only* capable of being in love with their family members the way that homosexuals are with the same sex. There's no imperative to change the incest laws
 
Oh yeah - and in general - how about if it were incest between two homosexual siblings, when they were "consenting adults?" Or fraternal twins, to keep reproduction on the table. Would that be copasetic?
 
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