How I see christian of today . (1 Viewer)

[Mach]

definition of aitheism
define:atheism - Google Search

the doctrine or belief that there is no God

So by that anything for the cause of spreading the belief of no god is therefore spreading aitheism. So what Stalin did was in the name of aitheism.

"in the name of atheism" as a phrase, makes no sense.

Atheism is having no belief in gods. It isn't a person with a name, or a specific view on religion. It's having no belief in gods. I don't know how more clearly that can be stated. Cephus is correct.

-Mach

 

[jfuh]

“The World has never before known a godlessness as organized, militarized and tenaciously malevolent as that preached by Marxism. Within the philosophical system of Marx and Lenin and at the heart of their psychology, HATRED OF GOD is the principle driving force, more fundamental than all their political and economic pretensions. Militant atheism is not merely incidental or marginal to Communist policy; it is not a side effect, but the central pivot. To achieve its diabolical ends, Communism needs to control a population devoid of religious and national feeling, and this entails a destruction of faith and nationhood. Communists proclaim both of these objectives openly, and just as openly put them into practice.” Alexander Solzhenitsyn, former Marxist, Nobel Prize winner

‘’The Party cannot be neutral towards religious prejudices and it will continue to carry on propaganda against these prejudices because this is one of the best means of undermining the influence of the reactionary clergy who support the exploiting classes and who preach submission to these classes. The Party cannot be neutral towards the bearers of religious prejudices, towards the reactionary clergy who poison the minds of the toiling masses. Have we suppressed the reactionary clergy? Yes, we have. The unfortunate thing is that it has not been completely liquidated. Anti-religious propaganda is a means by which the complete liquidation of the reactionary clergy must be brought about.’’

J. Stalin.
Religion+Is+the+Enemy+of+Industrialization+.jpg (image)
Religion is the enemy of industralization.
Stalin’s industralisation: Gulag, Industrialization


The Soviet Union was the first state to have as an ideological objective the elimination of religion. Toward that end, the Communist regime confiscated church property, ridiculed religion, harassed believers, and propagated atheism in the schools. Actions toward particular religions, however, were determined by State interests, and most organized religions were never outlawed.
The main target of the anti-religious campaign in the 1920s and 1930s was the Russian Orthodox Church, which had the largest number of faithful. Nearly all of its clergy, and many of its believers, were shot or sent to labor camps. Theological schools were closed, and church publications were prohibited. By 1939 only about 500 of over 50,000 churches remained open.
The financial foundation of the Russian Orthodoxy was destroyed merely two years after the revolution. The government confiscated all church property and capital, as it was nationalized, in 1918 by the decree, On the Separation of the Church from the State and Schools from the Church. This decree condemned the Church, financially crippling the institution, as well as putting the clergy and believers in danger. Through the first five years of the Soviet Union, twenty-eight Russian Orthodox Bishops and over 1,200 priests were executed, all seminaries closed, and the publications of most religious texts was prohibited. Repression of the Russian Orthodox Church continued in the Soviet Union for the next decade during the infamous period of the Great Purges of the 1930s.


‘’ Lenin "added" no "new principles" to Marxism nor did Lenin abolish any of the "old" principles of Marxism. Lenin always was and remained a loyal and consistent pupil of Marx and Engels, and wholly and entirely based himself on the principles of Marxism. ‘’

J. Stalin.



‘’So far as the party of the socialist proletariat is concerned, religion is not a private affair. Our Party is an association of class-conscious, advanced fighters for the emancipation of the working class…. we founded our association, the Russian Social-Democratic Labour Party, precisely for such a struggle against every religious bamboozling of the workers. And to us the ideological struggle is not a private affair, but the affair of the whole Party, of the whole proletariat.

Our Program is based entirely on the scientific, and moreover the materialist, world-outlook. An explanation of our Program, therefore, necessarily includes an explanation of the true historical and economic roots of the religious fog. Our propaganda necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism. We shall now probably have to follow the advice Engels once gave to the German Socialists: to translate and widely disseminate the literature of the eighteenth-century French Enlighteners and atheists.’’

Socialism and Religion
V. I. Lenin

''We must pursue the removal of church property by any means necessary... The instructions must come down to this, that in Shuia he must arrest more if possible but not less than several dozen representatives of the local clergy, the local petty bourgeoisie, and the local bourgeoisie on suspicion of direct or indirect participation in the forcible resistance to the decree of the VTsIK on the removal of property of value from churches. Immediately upon completion of this task, he must return to Moscow and personally deliver a report to the full session of the Politburo or to two specially authorized members of the Politburo. On the basis of this report, the Politburo will give a detailed directive to the judicial authorities, also verbal, that the trial of the insurrectionists from Shuia, should be carried out in utmost haste and should end not other than with the shooting of the very largest number of the most influential and dangerous of the Black Hundreds in Shuia, and, if possible, not only in this city but even in Moscow and several other ecclesiastical centers ''
V. I. Lenin

Letter from Lenin

You religious never quite get it do you. You confine yourselves to believing that religion only applies to what you perceive as a religion.
The blind worshiping of Lenin, Stalin and the communist party in itself was the religion.

 

[jfuh]

Well...Stalin was an Atheist...does that mean all his beliefs are what Atheism is all about--or was he (hmmm...how to be charitable...) ummm ....misguided?

No, Stalin, like Hitler, and Mao believed themselves to be god and wanted the people of their rule to worship them as such.

 

[Panache]

So let me get this straight. If a group of people who believe in Bacchus have an orgy in His name, it is no more or less representitive of the Baachian faith than someone who doesn't believe in Bacchus having an orgy in the name of disbelief in Bacchus?

This is to say, that the actions of one who does not beleive in Bacchus are as representative of everyone who doesn't believe in Bacchus as the actions of one who does believe in Bacchus are of everyone who does believe in Bacchus?

Is "disbelief in Bacchus" to be treated as a religious grouping the same way that 'belief in Bacchus' is? Are we not all part of the 'church of people who don't believe in Bacchus?" (with the obvious exception of Jerry.) Is our disbelif in an arbitrary deity as catagroically uniting as belief in said deity would be?

 

[justone]

You religious never quite get it do you. You confine yourselves to believing that religion only applies to what you perceive as a religion.
The blind worshiping of Lenin, Stalin and the communist party in itself was the religion.

It is exactly what I am saying, - what do you mean I never quite get it? It clear for everyone that atheism is another kind of religion. The documents clearly show that in order to establish the blind worshiping of Lenin, Stalin and the communist party they had to establish atheism and root out Christianity. The documents show clearly that the opposite is also true, - establishing atheism and rooting out Christianity will bring in the blind worshiping of Lenin, Stalin, the communist party, jfuh, rand, sagan, whatever will be the idol, it will be an idol, and it will require those who disagree and their families and their children be murdered.

 

[jfuh]

It is exactly what I am saying, - what do you mean I never quite get it? It clear for everyone that atheism is another kind of religion. The documents clearly show that in order to establish the blind worshiping of Lenin, Stalin and the communist party they had to establish atheism and root out Christianity. The documents show clearly that the opposite is also true, - establishing atheism and rooting out Christianity will bring in the blind worshiping of Lenin, Stalin, the communist party, jfuh, rand, sagan, whatever will be the idol, it will be an idol, and it will require those who disagree and their families and their children be murdered.

Again, you're not getting it, aethism is not and was not a religion.
They rooted out the practices of certain religions but instilled their own religious belief that they - Stalin, Lenin, Mao - were gods and that Marxism was the holy bible and the communist party was devine.
that's not instilling atheism, that's simply rooting out other religions and instilling another one.
Hence again, you don't get it.

 

[justone]

Again, you're not getting it, aethism is not and was not a religion.

You have been saying it since day one, but the historical documents show that you are wrong.

They rooted out the practices of certain religions but instilled their own religious belief that they - Stalin, Lenin, Mao - were gods and that Marxism was the holy bible and the communist party was devine.

If you find me a single historical document showing that Stalin, Lenin, Mao were ever believing that they were gods, or even or sort of gods, than we may have a reasonable discussion. So far all historical documents demonstrate very clearly that they were believing in exactly the same things as you and other militant atheists are, - ideas of enlightenment, science and atheism. And they were doing exactly what you have been doing here: widely disseminating the literature of Enlighteners and atheists.’’ Our Program is based entirely on the scientific … world-outlook. An explanation of our Program, therefore, necessarily includes an explanation of the true historical and economic roots of the religious fog. Our propaganda necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism.’’ This is exactly the program you have been following on DP. And they had exactly the same proportion of personal ego and personal achievements as you do. All what happened was that they got an opportunity (German capital) to move to the goal immediately and safely, because they put a lot of that capital aside for themselves for a case if the bloody Program did not work. Then they spent tons of capital spreading the propaganda of atheism to the West, counting on people with disproportional, in relation to brian, egos.

 

[jfuh]

You have been saying it since day one, but the historical documents show that you are wrong.

What historical documents? Please do show us all what breakthrough you've unearthed that has ever shown such.

If you find me a single historical document showing that Stalin, Lenin, Mao were ever believing that they were gods, or even or sort of gods, than we may have a reasonable discussion.

That's interesting; only a few posts back you were agreeing; now you're claiming they weren't so. As for you not being able to comprehend this now it's simple historical fact that these three were worshiped like gods. No one dared to second question them, they held the lives of millions within their grasp, they believed themselves to be infallible and supreme to everyone else. That's believing yourself to be divine.
Not only so, but the masses also saw them as such and blindly followed in their wake - that is religion like it or not.

So far all historical documents demonstrate very clearly that they were believing in exactly the same things as you and other militant atheists are, - ideas of enlightenment, science and atheism.

Sorry bud, militant atheist is nothing but the figment of your imagination, there are no such individuals. Enlightenment and science are not beliefs that's your first err. Second err, if one were seeking enlightenment they would never blindly follow another simply because they said so. Thirdly, I'm not an atheist. 3 strikes, your out, thanks for playing.

And they were doing exactly what you have been doing here: widely disseminating the literature of Enlighteners and atheists.’’ Our Program is based entirely on the scientific … world-outlook. An explanation of our Program, therefore, necessarily includes an explanation of the true historical and economic roots of the religious fog. Our propaganda necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism.’’ This is exactly the program you have been following on DP. And they had exactly the same proportion of personal ego and personal achievements as you do. All what happened was that they got an opportunity (German capital) to move to the goal immediately and safely, because they put a lot of that capital aside for themselves for a case if the bloody Program did not work. Then they spent tons of capital spreading the propaganda of atheism to the West, counting on people with disproportional, in relation to brian, egos.

Here you are again, using your religious interpretation of something you have absolutely no idea over. Anyone that seeks enlightenment would never just blindly accept the words of someone else simply because they said so. The USSR, Maoist China while you claim them to be atheistic all they were doing was replacing the religions of the old with their own religious blind belief for the sole purpose of control. That religion is not atheism, if you actually understand atheism is the lack of belief in ANY god - not just your interpretation.

 

[justone]

That's interesting; only a few posts back you were agreeing; now you're claiming they weren't so. As for you not being able to comprehend this now it's simple historical fact that these three were worshiped like gods. No one dared to second question them, they held the lives of millions within their grasp, they believed themselves to be infallible and supreme to everyone else. That's believing yourself to be divine.
Not only so, but the masses also saw them as such and blindly followed in their wake - that is religion like it or not.

So, you have no historical documents to back up your claim. Keep on ranting.

Sorry bud, militant atheist is nothing but the figment of your imagination, there are no such individuals.

You want me to pass the product of your state of denial to Nobel Committee, so they would strip Solzhenitsyn of the Nobel price? You want me to pass it to them, so they would strip Einstein of the Nobel price? No, I would not even touch the product, it smells like jfuh.

Enlightenment and science are not beliefs that's your first err. Second err, if one were seeking enlightenment they would never blindly follow another simply because they said so. Thirdly, I'm not an atheist. 3 strikes, your out, thanks for playing.

Science is not a belief; belief in science over G-d is a belief – if you wish clarification. Your logic ‘’if, then’’ is null, because the historical documents show they did blindly follow. If it looks like an atheist, if it smells like and atheist it must be an atheist, even if it rants it is not an atheist. Keep on ranting.

Anyone that seeks enlightenment would never just blindly accept the words of someone else simply because they said so.

You have been spiraling into the loops of denial. I don’t care about the slogans you choose to flag out, I care about the historical facts. I have quoted historical documents and historical events, so that anyone who is not as blinded by your nice slogans can read the documents. I had seen all their slogans they used to cover their atheistic deeds; I don’t think you can produce anything new.

The USSR, Maoist China while you claim them to be atheistic all they were doing was replacing the religions of the old with their own religious blind belief for the sole purpose of control.

And again, - you are spinning in denial by avoiding to answer the simple question, - how they were doing it, by what means? Anyone can see clearly what you are wishing to us: They were doing it by following the Program, - by establishing atheism and rooting out Christianity. When atheism is established and Christianity is rooted out then a variant of blind worshipping of idols is established automatically.

That religion is not atheism, if you actually understand atheism is the lack of belief in ANY god - not just your interpretation.

I don’t really need you to repeat me word by word a teaching of that religion about ANY god. I know all of them, - they were feeding me for years. I have not heard from atheists here anything diferent from what I had to hear from atheists there, yet. Don’t bring me be back to the lectures on ‘’scientific atheism’’ it was giving toothache to too many of us even if we all were atheists. You are not even close to their sophistication. But you are a certain result of their sophistication and billons spent on growing you here.





That religion is based on atheism, it is using atheism as the principle driving force, more fundamental than all political and economic pretensions, it is making it the central pivot. That religion has been the only tangible result produced for humanity by atheism so far. These facts do not allow anybody with a logical mind to count the possible differences between atheism and religion to be worth of consideration; not even mentioning all other blind beliefs of atheists. Atheism is the religion which makes idols out of people and gives them power over other people, and if it is not watched closely it immediatelly goes from the rampage of denial to the rampage of mass murder.

As an example, when the atrocities of atheism just started to be known to us, we, shaken in disgust, put “”under God’” in the pledge of alligence, making the pledge that such atricities will never happen in this nation. You have been steadily fighting for removal of this pledge, and there is hardly an atheist who would not sign for removal. It is clear on whose side you are, certainly not on the side of this nation, - of course, if to consider Christians to be a part of this nation. But again, apparently there is no reason for you to make such a consideration, because you have been expressing many times that Christians are illogical, they are against advances of science, stem research and GW, civil rights of gays, and many other good things so there is no big deal if you can get rid off them, - it would be better for science, and for the nation - wouldn’t? It is like for your 4 horsmen expressing a joy over the death of a Christian, - a good Christian is a dead Christian.

Thank you for coming over and helping to expose the real face of atheism.

 

[jfuh]

So, you have no historical documents to back up your claim. Keep on ranting.

It's quite telling of your deletion of the first part of the post then go on to making this claim.

You want me to pass the product of your state of denial to Nobel Committee, so they would strip Solzhenitsyn of the Nobel price? You want me to pass it to them, so they would strip Einstein of the Nobel price? No, I would not even touch the product, it smells like jfuh.

You going to post anything of relevance or are you going to continue posting rubbish trials at talking smack?

You don't even understand what atheism is. You still have not posted any "historical documents" to support your own assertions even though it seems that is what you are insisting to base arguments upon.
Science is not a belief, it's knowledge. In that I don't believe that the sun rises in the east and sets in the west, I know it. And based on the mathematical principles calculated by Nicolaus Copernicus over 500 years ago I can calculate the precise moment at which the sun will rise over the horizon every day. That's not a belief, that's knowledge. Tell me, do you believe that you will fall off a building if you jump off it's ledge or do you know?

You have been spiraling into the loops of denial. I don’t care about the slogans you choose to flag out, I care about the historical facts. I have quoted historical documents and historical events, so that anyone who is not as blinded by your nice slogans can read the documents. I had seen all their slogans they used to cover their atheistic deeds; I don’t think you can produce anything new.

quit being obtuse. The didn't root out christianity (inapplicable to china as it wasn't a widely recognized religion there back then) in place of atheism, they rooted out christianity and all other religions in place of communism - that was the religion. You claim to have quote historical documents? What historical documents? You quoted propaganda.

And again, - you are spinning in denial by avoiding to answer the simple question, - how they were doing it, by what means? Anyone can see clearly what you are wishing to us: They were doing it by following the Program, - by establishing atheism and rooting out Christianity. When atheism is established and Christianity is rooted out then a variant of blind worshipping of idols is established automatically.

Same as above

I don’t really need you to repeat me word by word a teaching of that religion about ANY god. I know all of them, - they were feeding me for years. I have not heard from atheists here anything diferent from what I had to hear from atheists there, yet. Don’t bring me be back to the lectures on ‘’scientific atheism’’ it was giving toothache to too many of us even if we all were atheists. You are not even close to their sophistication. But you are a certain result of their sophistication and billons spent on growing you here.

billions spent? :lamo right back to the conspiracy theories now are we? You can't argue logically so you resort to foaming at the mouth. Wow, I must've really struck a nerve.:lol:

That religion is based on atheism, it is using atheism as the principle driving force, more fundamental than all political and economic pretensions, it is making it the central pivot. That religion has been the only tangible result produced for humanity by atheism so far. These facts do not allow anybody with a logical mind to count the possible differences between atheism and religion to be worth of consideration; not even mentioning all other blind beliefs of atheists. Atheism is the religion which makes idols out of people and gives them power over other people, and if it is not watched closely it immediatelly goes from the rampage of denial to the rampage of mass murder.

As an example, when the atrocities of atheism just started to be known to us, we, shaken in disgust, put “”under God’” in the pledge of alligence, making the pledge that such atricities will never happen in this nation. You have been steadily fighting for removal of this pledge, and there is hardly an atheist who would not sign for removal. It is clear on whose side you are, certainly not on the side of this nation, - of course, if to consider Christians to be a part of this nation. But again, apparently there is no reason for you to make such a consideration, because you have been expressing many times that Christians are illogical, they are against advances of science, stem research and GW, civil rights of gays, and many other good things so there is no big deal if you can get rid off them, - it would be better for science, and for the nation - wouldn’t? It is like for your 4 horsmen expressing a joy over the death of a Christian, - a good Christian is a dead Christian.

Thank you for coming over and helping to expose the real face of atheism.

Get back to me when you recover from your heart attacks.

 

[justone]

- It's quite telling of your deletion of the first part of the post then go on to making this claim.-
-You going to post anything of relevance or are you going to continue posting rubbish trials at talking smack? -

-Get back to me when you recover from your heart attacks.-
-Same as above-
-You don't even understand what atheism is. You still have not posted any "historical documents" to support your own assertions even though it seems that is what you are insisting to base arguments upon.-

Keep on ranting when you have nothing to object; jfuh as usual.

Science is not a belief, it's knowledge. In that I don't believe that the sun rises in the east and sets in the west, I know it. And based on the mathematical principles calculated by Nicolaus Copernicus over 500 years ago I can calculate the precise moment at which the sun will rise over the horizon every day. That's not a belief, that's knowledge. Tell me, do you believe that you will fall off a building if you jump off it's ledge or do you know?

It is the only part of your post where you’re using some very primitive, but arguments. Congratulations. The best you have done so far. Quoting my statement that “”Science is not a belief’’ you are trying to prove to me that “’science is not a belief”. You, atheists, are just going to make to the top on my list of entertainments.

quit being obtuse. The didn't root out christianity (inapplicable to china as it wasn't a widely recognized religion there back then) in place of atheism, they rooted out christianity and all other religions in place of communism - that was the religion. You claim to have quote historical documents? What historical documents? You quoted propaganda.

OK, now you’re screaming “”It is all propaganda!’’ Sure, the secret letter by Lenin is propaganda. Sure, Solzhenitsyn is a propagandist. Sure, the working program of the party meant to be distributed within the party is propaganda. I really should put some music on.
BTW if Christianity was not rooted in Russia and atheism was not established in Russia, nobody would know anything about Mao and jfuh. So, you can stick China back in any hole of your body your want.

billions spent? right back to the conspiracy theories now are we? You can't argue logically so you resort to foaming at the mouth. Wow, I must've really struck a nerve.

Sure, there was a revolt in the Party against the program of the Party. Sure, there was a decision not to use propaganda of Marxism-Leninism in the stand against the West and to forget about atheism in the propaganda, even if atheism was the principle driving force, the central pivot of Communists. We just know nothing about such a revolt, such a decision, only you know. I guess you have an access to some super secret documents in Moscow hidden even from KGB generals, but open for you.


Russia - Active Measures - K-Z
Crash Course in KGB/SVR/FSB Disinformation, Active Measures
Soviet Strategic Intelligence Deception Organizations

And sure, when you, atheists repeat word by word the same crap as they used to feed me on “’scientific atheism”’ lectures I cannot make a connection.
Really, thanks a lot for making atheism so exposed.

 

[jfuh]

Keep on ranting when you have nothing to object; jfuh as usual.


It is the only part of your post where you’re using some very primitive, but arguments. Congratulations. The best you have done so far. Quoting my statement that “”Science is not a belief’’ you are trying to prove to me that “’science is not a belief”. You, atheists, are just going to make to the top on my list of entertainments.

OK, now you’re screaming “”It is all propaganda!’’ Sure, the secret letter by Lenin is propaganda. Sure, Solzhenitsyn is a propagandist. Sure, the working program of the party meant to be distributed within the party is propaganda. I really should put some music on.
BTW if Christianity was not rooted in Russia and atheism was not established in Russia, nobody would know anything about Mao and jfuh. So, you can stick China back in any hole of your body your want.

Sure, there was a revolt in the Party against the program of the Party. Sure, there was a decision not to use propaganda of Marxism-Leninism in the stand against the West and to forget about atheism in the propaganda, even if atheism was the principle driving force, the central pivot of Communists. We just know nothing about such a revolt, such a decision, only you know. I guess you have an access to some super secret documents in Moscow hidden even from KGB generals, but open for you.


Russia - Active Measures - K-Z
Crash Course in KGB/SVR/FSB Disinformation, Active Measures
Soviet Strategic Intelligence Deception Organizations

And sure, when you, atheists repeat word by word the same crap as they used to feed me on “’scientific atheism”’ lectures I cannot make a connection.
Really, thanks a lot for making atheism so exposed.

Not a single response and indeed, you still have no idea. Let me help you out a bit here.

atheism
Main Entry:athe·ism Pronunciation: \ˈā-thē-ˌi-zəm\ Function:noun Etymology:Middle French athéisme, from athée atheist, from Greek atheos godless, from a- + theos godDate:1546 1archaic : ungodliness wickedness
2 a: a disbelief in the existence of deity b: the doctrine that there is no deity

When the communist party, the communist leaders were worshipped as deities blindly followed by the sheepish masses that's not atheism, that's religion. It is this concept that you do not understand nor comprehend. All you can do and have been doing is attack the word atheism and attack those whom you believe to be atheists.
Think about it this way, just because someone says they are christian does that mean they really are christian?
You provide Lenin's "secret letter" to "prove" that he's atheistic and thus that the soviet union was also atheist when it was anything but.

Quite telling of your short comings when you can't address the issues and must resort to mud slinging.

 

[justone]

When the communist party, the communist leaders were worshipped as deities blindly followed by the sheepish masses that's not atheism, that's religion. It is this concept that you do not understand nor comprehend.

OK, let’s run the demonstration the 4th time.

What did they do in order to get into such a mess, such a religion? What is the primary condition for such a religion to happen? What is the necessary cause of such an effect, without which such an effect would be impossible?

I asked you 3 times, you are still twisting and spinning like a fish of a fry pan. Exposing twists and spins of atheists makes my day.

The documents and witnesses tell that they did it by rooting out Christianity and establishing atheism. If there was no atheism, there could be no worshipping of idols. If there was Christianity it would be standing up against worshiping of idols. Only atheism does not mind the worshiping of people or a group of people and their teachings. Unless you show me that they DID establish their worshiping of idols without rooting out Christianity and establishing atheism first, you will be twisting and spinning like a fish on a fry pan.

All you can do and have been doing is attack the word atheism and attack those whom you believe to be atheists.

I am not in a linguistic game at all, nice try. Whatever the word means linguistically for you is OK. I am looking at the historical role of atheism, however you define it in dictionary.

Think about it this way, just because someone says they are christian does that mean they really are christian?

No, it does not. One has to follow the Program of JC, put it as the base of his actions, if somebody kills and the program says don’t kill, he is not a real follower, because the program explicitly prohibits killing.

When somebody puts atheism as the base of his action, as a necessary part of his Program, as its pivot, as a necessary mean and condition of achieving his goal, and when one puts establishing of atheism as one of the goals, and achieves the goal through mass murder and rooting out Christianity, and the program does not prohibit the mass murder, I would and I am pointing to the only practical documented role atheism has REALLY played in REAL history. You can pink up your words all day long, - but these are your deeds – they are all dark stained with blood, worshipping of idols and no progress for humanity ever.

You provide Lenin's "secret letter" to "prove" that he's atheistic and thus that the soviet union was also atheist when it was anything but.

Quite telling of your short comings when you can't address the issues and must resort to mud slinging.

Let me repeat the 4th time.

The Soviet Union was atheistic, not as the result of any logic and/or conclusion or opinion of mine, but it was an atheistic as the matter of all recorded, printed, hand written, photographed and filmed facts. There is absolutely nothing preventing you, in spite of the Kilotons of facts, from saying that it was anything, but atheistic. Moreover I am here for you to say so and thus to expose the nature of your atheistic set of mind.

Thank you for exposing atheism for the public one more time, and making it entertaining.

 

[jfuh]

OK, let’s run the demonstration the 4th time.

What did they do in order to get into such a mess, such a religion? What is the primary condition for such a religion to happen? What is the necessary cause of such an effect, without which such an effect would be impossible?

Each time I've answered you and each time you twist and turn it into something about atheism.
What these people did was instill the communist party doctrine to the masses. That they are to blindly follow the communist party, whatever the communist party can not be in err. AKA the communist religion. So bash that which you don't understand all you want.

I asked you 3 times, you are still twisting and spinning like a fish of a fry pan. Exposing twists and spins of atheists makes my day.

The documents and witnesses tell that they did it by rooting out Christianity and establishing atheism. If there was no atheism, there could be no worshipping of idols. If there was Christianity it would be standing up against worshiping of idols. Only atheism does not mind the worshiping of people or a group of people and their teachings. Unless you show me that they DID establish their worshiping of idols without rooting out Christianity and establishing atheism first, you will be twisting and spinning like a fish on a fry pan.

Standing up against worshipping idols? Jesus Christ super star anyone?

I am not in a linguistic game at all, nice try. Whatever the word means linguistically for you is OK. I am looking at the historical role of atheism, however you define it in dictionary.

That's all you've been doing, attempting to create a scapegoat for that which you do not understand.

No, it does not. One has to follow the Program of JC, put it as the base of his actions, if somebody kills and the program says don’t kill, he is not a real follower, because the program explicitly prohibits killing.

When somebody puts atheism as the base of his action, as a necessary part of his Program, as its pivot, as a necessary mean and condition of achieving his goal, and when one puts establishing of atheism as one of the goals, and achieves the goal through mass murder and rooting out Christianity, and the program does not prohibit the mass murder, I would and I am pointing to the only practical documented role atheism has REALLY played in REAL history. You can pink up your words all day long, - but these are your deeds – they are all dark stained with blood, worshipping of idols and no progress for humanity ever.

There you go again, attempting to explain something you don't understand. Atheism is without divine beliefs - hence idolizing is out. Nazi's were christian did that stop them from the holocaust? The communist belief system was not atheism, that was a religious belief - hence NOT atheist as was provided to you by that definition.

Let me repeat the 4th time.

The Soviet Union was atheistic, not as the result of any logic and/or conclusion or opinion of mine, but it was an atheistic as the matter of all recorded, printed, hand written, photographed and filmed facts. There is absolutely nothing preventing you, in spite of the Kilotons of facts, from saying that it was anything, but atheistic. Moreover I am here for you to say so and thus to expose the nature of your atheistic set of mind.

Thank you for exposing atheism for the public one more time, and making it entertaining.

:lamo, all you've is publicly display ignorance. As you've acknowledged simply because someone says they are something does not mean they are. All historical facts show that the USSR was a communist cult.

 

[justone]

Each time I've answered you and each time you twist and turn it into something about atheism.
What these people did was instill the communist party doctrine to the masses. That they are to blindly follow the communist party, whatever the communist party can not be in err. AKA the communist religion. So bash that which you don't understand all you want.

OK, let’s run the demonstration the 5th time.

What is the way and the main tool of instilling the communist party doctrine to the masses? What did they do in order to get into such a mess, such a religion?

I asked you 4 times, you are still twisting and spinning like a fish of a fry pan. Exposing twists and spins of atheists makes my day.
That communist religion is based on atheism, it is using atheism as the principle driving force, more fundamental than all political and economic pretensions, it is making it the central pivot. That communist religion has been the only tangible result produced for humanity by atheism so far. There is atheism instilled in masses and there is no Christianity, - there is the doctrine in the masses and the mass religion; there is no atheism instilled, but there is Christianity, - there is no communist religion. Push the button, get the banana; no button, - no banana.

Standing up against worshipping idols? Jesus Christ super star anyone?

What the rock opera has to do?

That's all you've been doing, attempting to create a scapegoat for that which you do not understand.

Empty rant, otherwise you would be explaining what I don’t understand.

There you go again, attempting to explain something you don't understand. Atheism is without divine beliefs - hence idolizing is out.

Atheism is without divine beliefs, - hence idolizing replaces divine.

Nazi's were christian did that stop them from the holocaust?

As the matter of historical fact, Nazis have never put Christianity as the base of their action, as a necessary part of their Program, as its pivot, as a necessary tool and condition of achieving their goals. Nazis are no help to you.

The communist belief system was not atheism, that was a religious belief - hence NOT atheist as was provided to you by that definition.

As to your definitions, communists and dictionary do not call Communism and/or Marxism Leninism a religious belief. It is what you and I agreed upon, because it is clear that it is not different from religious beliefs and worshipping, so your dictionary points is double mute.
But OK, let’s run the demonstration the 6th time.

What did they do in order to get into such a belief, such a religion? What is the primary condition for such a religion happen? What is the necessary cause of such an effect, without which such an effect would be impossible? That religion is based on atheism, it is using atheism as the principle driving force, more fundamental than all political and economic pretensions, it is making atheism to be its central pivot. That religion has been the only tangible result produced for humanity by atheism so far.

:lamo

Can you ever stop dripping saliva and hitting the floor with the tail? It is not well accepted in the Western culture, sorry for telling you.

, all you've is publicly display ignorance. As you've acknowledged simply because someone says they are something does not mean they are. All historical facts show that the USSR was a communist cult.

You yourself just called the cult a religion…, religious belief.

Let us run it the 7th time. What are the main signs, practical deeds and ways and main tool of the Communist cult? What is the principal driving force, more fundamental than all political and economic pretensions of the Communist cult?
A T H E I S M.

No atheism, no cult. No button, no banana.

Let me know how many more times do you need to get the same answers to the same statements. I will ask a friend to write a program.

 

[Australianlibertarian]

OK, let’s run the demonstration the 5th time.

What is the way and the main tool of instilling the communist party doctrine to the masses? What did they do in order to get into such a mess, such a religion?

I asked you 4 times, you are still twisting and spinning like a fish of a fry pan. Exposing twists and spins of atheists makes my day.
That communist religion is based on atheism, it is using atheism as the principle driving force, more fundamental than all political and economic pretensions, it is making it the central pivot. That communist religion has been the only tangible result produced for humanity by atheism so far. There is atheism instilled in masses and there is no Christianity, - there is the doctrine in the masses and the mass religion; there is no atheism instilled, but there is Christianity, - there is no communist religion. Push the button, get the banana; no button, - no banana.

What the rock opera has to do?

Empty rant, otherwise you would be explaining what I don’t understand.

Atheism is without divine beliefs, - hence idolizing replaces divine.


As the matter of historical fact, Nazis have never put Christianity as the base of their action, as a necessary part of their Program, as its pivot, as a necessary tool and condition of achieving their goals. Nazis are no help to you.


As to your definitions, communists and dictionary do not call Communism and/or Marxism Leninism a religious belief. It is what you and I agreed upon, because it is clear that it is not different from religious beliefs and worshipping, so your dictionary points is double mute.
But OK, let’s run the demonstration the 6th time.

What did they do in order to get into such a belief, such a religion? What is the primary condition for such a religion happen? What is the necessary cause of such an effect, without which such an effect would be impossible? That religion is based on atheism, it is using atheism as the principle driving force, more fundamental than all political and economic pretensions, it is making atheism to be its central pivot. That religion has been the only tangible result produced for humanity by atheism so far.


Can you ever stop dripping saliva and hitting the floor with the tail? It is not well accepted in the Western culture, sorry for telling you.


You yourself just called the cult a religion…, religious belief.

Let us run it the 7th time. What are the main signs, practical deeds and ways and main tool of the Communist cult? What is the principal driving force, more fundamental than all political and economic pretensions of the Communist cult?
A T H E I S M.

No atheism, no cult. No button, no banana.

Let me know how many more times do you need to get the same answers to the same statements. I will ask a friend to write a program.

You assume that Atheism would cause people to start idolizing Political leaders, or noted historical figures. Unfortunately this already happens in societies that are not made up of atheist demographics.

Secondly Justone, you seem to misunderstand Communism. Marxist-Leninism supports atheism, because it supports Marx's theory that religion is used to manipulate the masses/politerate. Communism strongly supports atheism because atheism by default is a sceptical position that revolves around facts, not faith...... This fits in nicely with Marx's views of scientific materialism.

I disagree that atheism is the driving force of Communism, if anything Communism's driving force is collective redistribution. Communism's philosophy revolves around consequentialism, utilitarianism and scientific materialism. This is why atheism plays an important role in Communist Orthodoxy, because it supports Marxist-Leninist views of the world.

Christian socialists, Christian social democrats, etc, share Communisms' consequentialist and utilitarianist views. But the key thing is that Chrisitian social democrats reject scientific materialism. Which is why Atheism was never a fundemental tenant of Fabian socialists or leftist Christians/Jews, etc.
Fundementally this shows that it is not Atheism that differentiates Communists from other leftists (that might be Christians that believe in social justice), but rather whether or not the political movement accepts scientific materialism.

So push the button does not equal banana.

 

[justone]

You assume that Atheism would cause people to start idolizing Political leaders, or noted historical figures. Unfortunately this already happens in societies that are not made up of atheist demographics.

Secondly Justone, you seem to misunderstand Communism. Marxist-Leninism supports atheism, because it supports Marx's theory that religion is used to manipulate the masses/politerate. Communism strongly supports atheism because atheism by default is a sceptical position that revolves around facts, not faith...... This fits in nicely with Marx's views of scientific materialism.

I disagree that atheism is the driving force of Communism, if anything Communism's driving force is collective redistribution. Communism's philosophy revolves around consequentialism, utilitarianism and scientific materialism. This is why atheism plays an important role in Communist Orthodoxy, because it supports Marxist-Leninist views of the world.

Christian socialists, Christian social democrats, etc, share Communisms' consequentialist and utilitarianist views. But the key thing is that Chrisitian social democrats reject scientific materialism. Which is why Atheism was never a fundemental tenant of Fabian socialists or leftist Christians/Jews, etc.
Fundementally this shows that it is not Atheism that differentiates Communists from other leftists (that might be Christians that believe in social justice), but rather whether or not the political movement accepts scientific materialism.

So push the button does not equal banana.

I appreciate your reply, I am not ignoring you like some others, if have time I will reply, if not - it has been a pleasure to hear from you again...

 

[justone]

You assume that Atheism would cause people to start idolizing Political leaders, or noted historical figures.

I don’t assume, I look at history and I quote historical documents and witnesses. I also see that atheism would cause people to start idolizing not only Political leaders, or noted historical figures.

Unfortunately this already happens in societies that are not made up of atheist demographics.

These are empty words that are not confirmed by any observation.

Secondly Justone, you seem to misunderstand Communism. Marxist-Leninism supports atheism, because it supports Marx's theory that religion is used to manipulate the masses/politerate. Communism strongly supports atheism because atheism by default is a sceptical position that revolves around facts, not faith...... This fits in nicely with Marx's views of scientific materialism.

When you are saying that both atheism and Marxism represent a skeptical position that revolves around facts, when you are saying that both of them represent views of scientific materialism, it is fine with me. When you are saying that Marxists relay on the conspiracy theory that religion is used (by whom?) to manipulate the masses/proletariat it is fine with me. You are pretty much correct, details are not so important.

I disagree that atheism is the driving force of Communism, if anything Communism's driving force is collective redistribution. Communism's philosophy revolves around consequentialism, utilitarianism and scientific materialism. This is why atheism plays an important role in Communist Orthodoxy, because it supports Marxist-Leninist views of the world.

If you disagree it would be nice to counter the historical documents and witnesses I’ve quoted, because historical documents, as well as the well known chain of events demonstrate that Marxism puts atheism in the base of his action, defines it as a necessary part of its Program, as its pivot, as a necessary mean and condition of achieving its goals, - it does not matter if the final goal of the program is collective redistribution and if the imposed philosophy is utilitarianism and scientific materialism. It also shows that you cannot think in an order, - scientific materialism in your own representation causes Marx to be an atheist, thus you, in 2 sentences destroy yourself, saying that atheism is not a driving force, but scientific materialism, which in its turn causes atheism is a driving force, - thus you disprove your first sentence by the next one.

Christian socialists, Christian social democrats, etc, share Communisms' consequentiality and utilitarianism views.

Christian socialists, Christian social democrats share views of communists no more or no less than Marx shares views of Jesus Christ and the Bible. "He who does not work, neither shall he eat" (2 Thessalonians 3:10). He who does not work, neither shall he eat. (2. The Moral Code of the Builder of Communism) ‘’In the U.S.S.R. work is a duty and a matter of honor for every able-bodied citizen, in accordance with the principle: "He who does not work, neither shall he eat." ( The Soviet constitution 1936) ‘'You shall not commit adultery" – Moses. “Mutual respect in the family, concern for the upbringing of children.’(8. The Moral Code of the Builder of Communism ).
You’ve just made me laugh trying to assure me that I am some kind of a Marxist. I have never denied that Marxism includes very nice views and it includes a description of a very nice, paradise like, living for all of us, but when you are telling me that I share views with Communism you go over the line of sanity.


‘’CSM is a movement of Christians with a radical commitment to social justice, to protecting the environment and to fostering peace and reconciliation.’’ Who we are I myself have no objection against ‘’social justice, protecting the environment and fostering peace and reconciliation.’’ If social justice is based on the concepts of human rights and equality all Christians are for social justice. Marx’s views and ‘’theory’’ as well as Marxism Leninism achieve the equality by means of violating all humans rights and human eqality, it is no different from atheism, especially as it is demonstarted here, when Christians and Christianity are denied equality and they are considered to be a burden, an obstacle on the way of achieving social justice. We all don’t mind all good for all. You are very eager to achieve such good by exterminating Jewish Zionists in death camps, Christians and Christianity in Gulags, by establishing atheism and Caliphate. I am not so eager, as a Christian, to achive the goals of the bright future, it is enough for me to stand against your good, at least, by demonstrating how good it is.

Christianity in all its history has always stood for human dignity and certain unalienable rights given equally to everyone by the highest superhuman power so, that no human made ‘theory’ can argue or abolish or make exclusions in the rights. We can see, as the matter of fact, all Christian missions and organizations in the most difficult parts of the world in the midst of social injustice, are bringing relief and they are working for the certain unalienable rights, - they have nothing to do to the left or right political leaning, but they have everything to do to the core beliefs of Christianity. I can say as well that the most ‘’right winged’’ Christian have the heaviest participation in such missions, and my own hard earned money once in a while go there rather than to a political party. Atheists spring to actions only when they see a chance to stop such missions and faith based initiatives, when they see an opportunity to arrest participants and put them in Gulags, when they see a chance to support only humans rights of those who murder and behead the missionaries.

But the key thing is that Christian social democrats reject scientific materialism.

That is also pretty much correct, - even social Christians reject atheism. I have stated consistently- this is the key.

Which is why Atheism was never a fundemental tenant of Fabian socialists or leftist Christians/Jews, etc.

Again you are talking about very insignificant number of Christians, when all your leftist Christians being a 0.001% part of mainstream Christianity cannot be a full representative of Christianity. I only hope you are not mentioning some nuts calling them selves Christians. Even then, even for 0.001% atheism can be neither a fundamental nor a side type tenant of their views. A Jew by blood can be an atheist. A Christian, whoever left he is cannot have atheism as a tenant in his views. There is absolutely no need to pile an absurd.

Jews and Christians are not forbidden from participation in secular activities, the more they are not forbidden to join left or right political groups. As soon as they join atheists they loose their belief, they are no Christians anymore. When Jews join atheism it is even worse, they turn into a shame and a scum caring only about their money and how smart and superior they are towards others, including their own believing family.

Fundementally this shows that it is not Atheism that differentiates Communists from other leftists (that might be Christians that believe in social justice), but rather whether or not the political movement accepts scientific materialism.

Again: acceptance of scientific materialism is acceptance of atheism. There is no scientific materialism, -> there is no atheism. -> there is no Communism, - you can put them in any order you want. When a political movement accepts scientific materialism as its base, it accepts atheism as its base and in the result it becomes anti-Christian, it does not matter if it is anti-left Christian or anti-right Christian.

Thank you for a deeper inside of atheism and Communism, but such a scoop was not an intention of my post. I just quoted historical documents and witnesses demonstrating the only practical role atheism was able to play in history and human society, when it happened to be allowed to have things in its way.

P.S. If to be picky in details, they call it “’historical materialism’’, not ‘’scientific materialism’’, but I think you have done no mistake, - scientific is OK.

P.P.S. So far, you still have to prove to me that you are as stupid as all other atheists. What I still have on hands is that you are not stupid at all. When you don’t know things, it is not a sign of stupidity at all. You can be smarter than I me when I did not know things. So, the burden of proof that you’re stupid still lays on you. Go ahead, shoot, prove to me that you are more stupid than me when I was an atheist.
Lay it down, I will try to make some time for you.

 

[NoMoreDems-Reps]

Oil for free? Here's the bogus assertion right here. Have any idea how much a barrel of crude oil now costs? How about since the Iraqi Invasion.
You are completely full of shiit. You want to be taken seriously you best start backing up your assertions with proof.
Start with proving that the tapes were fake and prove that the US and other western countries are getting free oil from Iraq.

Not free for us silly! Free for the Oil companies! Did you hear about their
record profits this year?

It's good to hear the antagonists opinion about America. I think it allows
us to see what we might sometimes over look. You know kinda like we
think we are a Democratic society but we can only vote for a Republican
or a Democrat!

 

[Jerry]

How I see christian of Today ?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In our holy book in Islam .. God told us to never mistreat the people of the book .. but is the christian of today is the one who been mentioned in Quran ?

No ... God meant those who has a good hearts and when they hear Quran they cant stop their tears from falling from what they have heard in Quran .


But the christian of Today ... become the religion of the antichrist
Any law been forbiden by God .. is applied and blessed by the christian community ... Such as abortion . adoption .. homosexuality ...Anal sex ...Sex with woman in her courses time ...

All that is acceptable by the christian religion

Judaism and Islam forbid pork ... and both circumsize men for cleaniness .

Christian allow pork and dont circumsize men ...


The christian go to their church to bend their knees infront of a statue ...

The pope hold in his hand a stick that carry a man who been crusified and he call him jesus !!!!

Is that the magic stick Mr pope ?????


Why I m saying that christianity of today =the religion of the antichrist ?

First mission of the antichrist is to make people believe in him instead of believing in God .

This mission was accomplished ...

Jesus was never crucified ... and this man who been crucified is unknown man which I strongly believe .. he was Judas who betrayed jesus ..

So when he betrayed Jesus .. God punished and he appeared to people in the form of jesus .. so People took him and crusified him instead of Jesus


Crusification been always a punishment ... and God dont punish His prophets ..but He would punish the people who betray HIM and HIS prophets .


So this man who been crusified was Judas .. who was able to survive after all this torture because he is the beast .. and he came back to life to revenge and to spread his wrong message ... and after years and years .. in Egypt th christian claims that they have found a Judas bible that clear him from betraying jesus

And this bible is used by many christians .


So the antichrist which is Judas .. Successed to make more than half of this world worship him instead of worshiping GOD ...


while I m watching one of my favorites movies .. which is "last samurai "

I realized that from long time ago the western world always supply countries with arms to kill their own people

This is the christian strategy supply 2 different parties at the same country .. and leave them to kill eachother

This is exactly what the antichrist would do .. turn men against their own brothers ... which what Bush and Blair and Sarkozy trying to do now with Qatar and Saudia ... against Iran ..


But I have bad news for you ... Your plots wont successed .. because your antichrist will no longer be able to support you Inshallah .






You have destroyed Afghanistan .. Iraq ...and what comes around .. goes around .. and it will be back to you Inshallah ..

let see how antichrist and priest who allow gays to get marry in holy places such as Synagogue and church ..will help you to stand against God anger .


The plot of Satan is weak ... and the man on the cross wont help u

and you will see Inshallah ...

Hm, so in other words, you don't have a clue what Christianity is.

Christianity forbids homosexual relations, the eating of pork, the worshiping of idols, having sex with a woman while she's on per period...these are all specifically spelled out.

Please know what you are talking about.

 

[jfuh]

Not free for us silly! Free for the Oil companies! Did you hear about their
record profits this year?

It's good to hear the antagonists opinion about America. I think it allows
us to see what we might sometimes over look. You know kinda like we
think we are a Democratic society but we can only vote for a Republican
or a Democrat!

I haven't seen nor read any evidence to suggest that they are getting oil for free. Record profits yes, but that does result when the price of crude rises as such - their profit margin percentiles remain the same (as far as I know).
I'd like to see the evidence that they are indeed having such unfair advantages though.

 

[Australianlibertarian]

I don’t assume, I look at history and I quote historical documents and witnesses. I also see that atheism would cause people to start idolizing not only Political leaders, or noted historical figures.



These are empty words that are not confirmed by any observation.





When you are saying that both atheism and Marxism represent a skeptical position that revolves around facts, when you are saying that both of them represent views of scientific materialism, it is fine with me. When you are saying that Marxists relay on the conspiracy theory that religion is used (by whom?) to manipulate the masses/proletariat it is fine with me. You are pretty much correct, details are not so important.




If you disagree it would be nice to counter the historical documents and witnesses I’ve quoted, because historical documents, as well as the well known chain of events demonstrate that Marxism puts atheism in the base of his action, defines it as a necessary part of its Program, as its pivot, as a necessary mean and condition of achieving its goals, - it does not matter if the final goal of the program is collective redistribution and if the imposed philosophy is utilitarianism and scientific materialism. It also shows that you cannot think in an order, - scientific materialism in your own representation causes Marx to be an atheist, thus you, in 2 sentences destroy yourself, saying that atheism is not a driving force, but scientific materialism, which in its turn causes atheism is a driving force, - thus you disprove your first sentence by the next one.



Christian socialists, Christian social democrats share views of communists no more or no less than Marx shares views of Jesus Christ and the Bible. "He who does not work, neither shall he eat" (2 Thessalonians 3:10). He who does not work, neither shall he eat. (2. The Moral Code of the Builder of Communism) ‘’In the U.S.S.R. work is a duty and a matter of honor for every able-bodied citizen, in accordance with the principle: "He who does not work, neither shall he eat." ( The Soviet constitution 1936) ‘'You shall not commit adultery" – Moses. “Mutual respect in the family, concern for the upbringing of children.’(8. The Moral Code of the Builder of Communism ).
You’ve just made me laugh trying to assure me that I am some kind of a Marxist. I have never denied that Marxism includes very nice views and it includes a description of a very nice, paradise like, living for all of us, but when you are telling me that I share views with Communism you go over the line of sanity.


‘’CSM is a movement of Christians with a radical commitment to social justice, to protecting the environment and to fostering peace and reconciliation.’’ Who we are I myself have no objection against ‘’social justice, protecting the environment and fostering peace and reconciliation.’’ If social justice is based on the concepts of human rights and equality all Christians are for social justice. Marx’s views and ‘’theory’’ as well as Marxism Leninism achieve the equality by means of violating all humans rights and human eqality, it is no different from atheism, especially as it is demonstarted here, when Christians and Christianity are denied equality and they are considered to be a burden, an obstacle on the way of achieving social justice. We all don’t mind all good for all. You are very eager to achieve such good by exterminating Jewish Zionists in death camps, Christians and Christianity in Gulags, by establishing atheism and Caliphate. I am not so eager, as a Christian, to achive the goals of the bright future, it is enough for me to stand against your good, at least, by demonstrating how good it is.

Christianity in all its history has always stood for human dignity and certain unalienable rights given equally to everyone by the highest superhuman power so, that no human made ‘theory’ can argue or abolish or make exclusions in the rights. We can see, as the matter of fact, all Christian missions and organizations in the most difficult parts of the world in the midst of social injustice, are bringing relief and they are working for the certain unalienable rights, - they have nothing to do to the left or right political leaning, but they have everything to do to the core beliefs of Christianity. I can say as well that the most ‘’right winged’’ Christian have the heaviest participation in such missions, and my own hard earned money once in a while go there rather than to a political party. Atheists spring to actions only when they see a chance to stop such missions and faith based initiatives, when they see an opportunity to arrest participants and put them in Gulags, when they see a chance to support only humans rights of those who murder and behead the missionaries.




That is also pretty much correct, - even social Christians reject atheism. I have stated consistently- this is the key.



Again you are talking about very insignificant number of Christians, when all your leftist Christians being a 0.001% part of mainstream Christianity cannot be a full representative of Christianity. I only hope you are not mentioning some nuts calling them selves Christians. Even then, even for 0.001% atheism can be neither a fundamental nor a side type tenant of their views. A Jew by blood can be an atheist. A Christian, whoever left he is cannot have atheism as a tenant in his views. There is absolutely no need to pile an absurd.

Jews and Christians are not forbidden from participation in secular activities, the more they are not forbidden to join left or right political groups. As soon as they join atheists they loose their belief, they are no Christians anymore. When Jews join atheism it is even worse, they turn into a shame and a scum caring only about their money and how smart and superior they are towards others, including their own believing family.




Again: acceptance of scientific materialism is acceptance of atheism. There is no scientific materialism, -> there is no atheism. -> there is no Communism, - you can put them in any order you want. When a political movement accepts scientific materialism as its base, it accepts atheism as its base and in the result it becomes anti-Christian, it does not matter if it is anti-left Christian or anti-right Christian.

Thank you for a deeper inside of atheism and Communism, but such a scoop was not an intention of my post. I just quoted historical documents and witnesses demonstrating the only practical role atheism was able to play in history and human society, when it happened to be allowed to have things in its way.

P.S. If to be picky in details, they call it “’historical materialism’’, not ‘’scientific materialism’’, but I think you have done no mistake, - scientific is OK.

P.P.S. So far, you still have to prove to me that you are as stupid as all other atheists. What I still have on hands is that you are not stupid at all. When you don’t know things, it is not a sign of stupidity at all. You can be smarter than I me when I did not know things. So, the burden of proof that you’re stupid still lays on you. Go ahead, shoot, prove to me that you are more stupid than me when I was an atheist.
Lay it down, I will try to make some time for you.

I would like to agree with you that, yes communism=atheism. But I would disagree that atheism = communism.

I agree with you that communism is inherently anti-Christianity, anti-Islam, etc. In fact communism is opposed to any religion. Yes communism's atheism is militant. But communism is militant against capitalists, soft-socialists, intellectuals etc.

I would also like to reinforce that you are not a communist, but if you are leftist Christian or Christian Democrat, views of social justice, and common good are associated with utilitarian and consequentialist views of the world. Which communism shares. Although this does not make you a communist.

I would be one of the first people here to admit that the fervor of atheist communists in killing people of belief or political opposition is (and was) absolutely appalling. It is a huge blight on atheists.

But I am an atheist that believes in the rights of the individual, negative rights, freedom and liberty. Yes, I may disagree with the you on the existance of God, or Jesus, but I don't have any notions that you should be sent to gulags for 'atheist reeducation'. If anything I believe in the golden rules, and I must credit that some aspects of libertarianism and classical liberalism (which is where I lie closest to in the political scheme of things) have Judah-Christian back grounds. I would be a fool to deny that many of the great Libertarian or classical liberal philosophers actually sourced their philosophical arguments from the bible, or at least their interpretation of God's will and natural rights.

I would agree with you that Marx and his subsequent followers did use atheism as important part and tool of communist orthodoxy. I suppose what I am trying to say, is that being an atheist does not make you a communist. Because you can be an atheists and still believe in individual economic and religious freedoms. I.e liberty and negative rights. What I am trying to say, is that the atrocities committed by atheists in the name of atheism were examples of people denying another person's individual rights. Which is SYSTEMIC of communism. Communist belief in the rule of the majority, positive rights, utilitarianism, revolutionary war, and atheism = the horrendous mass killings of people.

In contrast an atheist that believes in negative rights, pluralism, individual rights, etc is no more a threat than a Christian or a Muslim that shares this view. If anything history shows that any theological position, whether it be atheism, Christianity, or Islam, that goes down the track of disregarding individual rights, and liberties ends up producing violence and blood shed against the perceived enemies. Whether it be Mao's cultural revolution, Spanish Inquisition, the Crusades, or the Muslim conquests of North Africa, Asia and parts of Europe.

My point being, is that even though atheism is inherently anti-religion, atheism is no more a threat to you than a Jew, Muslim, or Buddhist (that inherently disagrees that your belief is TRUE) that share the ideals of individual rights, liberties and freedoms. The bloodshed begins when people start thinking in terms of collectivism.

P.S After me being to lazy to read the whole previous posts, I would agree with your assertion that communism=atheism, but I would disagree that atheism=communism.

P.P.S

I would like you to explain this line in your previous post because I think that unless it is substantiated, this comment is nothing more than a bigoted generalization.

"When Jews join atheism it is even worse, they turn into a shame and a scum caring only about their money and how smart and superior they are towards others, including their own believing family."

 

[justone]

I would like to agree with you that...
I would disagree that

P.P.S

I would like you to explain this line in your previous post because I think that unless it is substantiated, this comment is nothing more than a bigoted generalization.

"When Jews join atheism it is even worse, they turn into a shame and a scum caring only about their money and how smart and superior they are towards others, including their own believing family."

There are still some disagreements between you and me, of course; though many of them, are not in the course of my particular points I had made in my post. For instance I am proud of Inquisition and the Crusades, and I don’t think I am a left wing Christian, I would rather be an extremely right wing Christian with the only correction that such a division makes absolutely no sense to me, - it is no more than an inheritance of historical materialism. If I have time I may go with you to continue in the discourse of topic, but for now this is not important for the course of the topic.

What is important that you keep on proving that you are smarter than me when I was an atheist. It is not only a big blow in my personal ego, but it also undermines my mission of demonstrating and exposing stupidity of atheists. I certainly cannot use you for my mission. I usually do not give up so easy, but I feel some pressure of other things I have to do. So, I would rather leave and try to cure my ego from the wounds received in conversations with you.

P.P.S. It does stand so far as a bigoted generalization, but I still like it.

 

[John1234]

Shery,

I considered if you might be fake before i saw you accused later in the thread.
My conclusion is that i simply have no idea.
And if you are for real, then i still sense a bit of a mocking or insincere attitude.
That being the case, speaking to you might be futile and pointless.
But i will try it anyhow, mostly because I am bored.

First off, while i do find some of your words to be completely wrong, there is also some truth to a small part of it.
All throughout history and in the present too, countless millions have done terrible things in the name of Christianity.
It is important for you to understand something though.

Those people in my country that hide behind Christianity and wave a banner of War, Torture, Oppression, Conquest, and so on... they are not true Christians.
Oh they will say they are and argue all day about it. But they are not.
Also the so called "Christians" of the past that would kill by the thousands and even torture people unless they agree to worship Christ... they were no more real Christians than the ones of today that stand for similar things.

I believe the true path of Christ is the correct and true religion.
But i don't want to debate that with you.
My point is that there are also millions of true Christians in the world that do make a real attempt to follow the right path and adhere to the teachings of Christ.
Not all Christians worship "idols" either.
For example: Jehova's Witnesses are Christians that do not worship an Idol and refuse to join the Military even if it lands them in jail.

Now here is the larger point...

There are extremists on both sides that fuel this conflict.
Just as there are "Christians" here that are in favor of nuking the entire Middle East, there are Muslims there that would cut the head off every American, if only they could.
Neither extremist side cares about the innocents.
And neither side follows the teachings of the religion they hide behind.

This mind set is a sickness.
Your people have it and so do mine.
I'd have to agree with you that the ones here that fuel the war are in fact worshiping satin.
But if you are able to see that, then I hope you know that the Muslims that fuel hatred and want to kill American's are also worshiping Satin.
I don't give a crap what country your from, what god you "think" you pray to, if you kill your fellow man you are not praying to anything but Evil.

The problem in my own country is how our 2 political parties are set up.
Christians by the millions end up supporting war, torture, and oppression because the only other choice we have available to us is to support abortion, porn, embrace homosexuality, and violence for our children.
We're trapped between these 2 choices.
Add a little propaganda and fear tactics and there you go.

One common theme i keep noticing, is that while millions of Christians recognize that not all Muslims are bad, most all Muslims think that all Christians are bad.

If you checked out what real Christianity is all about, you might even decide you like it for yourself. But one thing is for sure, if you really had any idea you would at least respect it.

This whole standard applies to the Muslim / Israeli conflict too.
When Muslims show their small children pictures of pigs and tell them its a Jew and that Jews eat small children etc etc...Its ok to kill a Jew etc etc. Do you think they are doing the work of the Muslim God or the work of Satin.
It is crystal clear that it is the work of Satin.
Any Muslim that blows himself up is worshiping Satin and will either go to hell or simply not be resurrected.

ps. What is your beef with Adoption?
I mean what do you do with unwanted children or children without parents?
Please don't tell me you kill them...

 

[rivrrat]

<snip>

For instance I am proud of Inquisition and the Crusades, ... <snip>

WTF?

How the hell can anyone be "proud" of mass murder, torture, and oppression?