• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

How Ford has saved us from ourselves

I have a Bolt. The recall has been enacted. How many Pintos caught fire back in the 70's?
I already made that point. There have been less than 80,000 Bolts made. When the Pinto gained fire notoriety, there were already about 2,000,000 on the road. My point was if as many Bolts were made as Pintos, the public would be horrified.
 
There were 3 Ford Pinto fires by the time over 1.5 million were sold. There are now I believe 9 Bolt fires after only 79,000 sold.

What does that say about the rates?
 
I already made that point. There have been less than 80,000 Bolts made. When the Pinto gained fire notoriety, there were already about 2,000,000 on the road. My point was if as many Bolts were made as Pintos, the public would be horrified.
I get it. Gotta slag the new tech. You won’t be joining the future no sir! Horse and buggy for you all the way
 
Keep in mind also, the Pinto only exploded from a rear end collision, because of its poorly protected fuel tank. Other cars have done so as well, but the Pinto had the highest rate from such collisions. The Bolt however, can start fire while in the off position. If parked in a garage at night whale people are sleeping... Look at how may scenarios lilely would have happened causing many deaths if as many Bolts were on the road as Pintos.
 
I get it. Gotta slag the new tech. You won’t be joining the future no sir! Horse and buggy for you all the way
Not at all. Incompetent manufacturing practices. I love the idea of electric cars. I really do. At the same time, I do not deny their downfalls. We have known for at least two decades now, that these batteries can spontaneously catch on fire, yet Chevy didn't care enough about quality control.
 
I believe Tesla S has about 1/2 the battery fires reported with about four times as many sold. And is rated in other ways among the safest vehicles made.
 
Who wants a car the GM has now made a statement "do not park in your garage?"
 
And this is not a Chevy rant. I own an Impala and a Camaro. I really like both cars.
 
Tell me, is it any surprise that since the beginning of the nuclear power age (1948) our government has spent a lot of money on Nuclear R&D?

No as I said governments have for a long time supported the developing of new technology. While it is investments in renewables, electric cars and other green technologies that are now really paying off. That at the same time there are an urgent need to support those technologies because of climate change and the toxic pollutions from fossil fuels.





 
No as I said governments have for a long time supported the developing of new technology. While it is investments in renewables, electric cars and other green technologies that are now really paying off. That at the same time there are an urgent need to support those technologies because of climate change and the toxic pollutions from fossil fuels.





Who chooses the best technology? In the end it is the consumer. Is Government's role to pick and choose what technology is what we will use,
or what we will be stuck with. I think the government should be funding man made carbon neutral fuels,
as that would reduce global emissions decades earlier than a long transition to battery electric cars,
and would also address emissions from Jets, Ships and trucks.
I know, people feel all good about themselves overpaying for inferior technology, that is supposed to save the planet,
But the reality is that it would take decades before enough passenger cars change to battery electrics to have much impact on emissions.
Changing the fuel, could cut global emission by about 1/3 in a single year.
IF the fuel was less expensive than fuel made from oil, even the non alarmist would use the fuel!
 
Who chooses the best technology? In the end it is the consumer. Is Government's role to pick and choose what technology is what we will use,
or what we will be stuck with. I think the government should be funding man made carbon neutral fuels,
as that would reduce global emissions decades earlier than a long transition to battery electric cars,
and would also address emissions from Jets, Ships and trucks.
I know, people feel all good about themselves overpaying for inferior technology, that is supposed to save the planet,
But the reality is that it would take decades before enough passenger cars change to battery electrics to have much impact on emissions.
Changing the fuel, could cut global emission by about 1/3 in a single year.
IF the fuel was less expensive than fuel made from oil, even the non alarmist would use the fuel!

Still just speculations and no sources from you. Also corporation have spend enormous amount of money on propaganda and lobbying to delay the transition away from fossil fuels.



There 80 percent of new cars are already plug in in Norway and big car companies are also seeing the great potential in electric cars.


 
Still just speculations and no sources from you. Also corporation have spend enormous amount of money on propaganda and lobbying to delay the transition away from fossil fuels.



There 80 percent of new cars are already plug in in Norway and big car companies are also seeing the great potential in electric cars.


Norway is building the first carbon neutral jet fuel plant already,
SUPPLYING YOUR RENEWABLE FUEL. UNLIMITED.
Also, are not plug in hybrids still fueled by fossil fuels?
 
Norway is building the first carbon neutral jet fuel plant already,
SUPPLYING YOUR RENEWABLE FUEL. UNLIMITED.
Also, are not plug in hybrids still fueled by fossil fuels?

I think it's really good and important that you find alternative fuels for areas that is harder to electrified like for example shipping and air plans. While that the technology you link to have a long way to fill the demand in those sectors. That it take several years for the plant to be fully operational and will then only produce fuels that can provide the top 5 most frequently serviced flight routes within Norway by about 50 %. There the fuel demand for domestic flights are small compared to the fuel demand for international routes and also in comparison to land transports. There Norway's fuel consumption also are tiny to the global fuel consumption. There we also are running out of time on climate change.



So that you need is a quick electrification of sectors like road transports and also invest in public transport, bike lanes and walking paths. There you also need to find alternatives to fossil fuel and reduce the sectors that is harder to electrify. That for example hydrogen can also be an alternative for air plane and shipping while you need also for example invest in high speed rail that can reduce the need for flying. There business might also have more online meetings and conferences instead of personal meeting that require flying. There plug in car can be an important step in the transition because the range of the battery is enough for the daily commute so you can drastically reduce fuel consumption There it also can increase the interest and spur innovations for fully electric cars there for example already half of new cars sold in Norway are fully electric. There you also are seeing a sharp increase in electric cars in for example Germany.

 
I think it's really good and important that you find alternative fuels for areas that is harder to electrified like for example shipping and air plans. While that the technology you link to have a long way to fill the demand in those sectors. That it take several years for the plant to be fully operational and will then only produce fuels that can provide the top 5 most frequently serviced flight routes within Norway by about 50 %. There the fuel demand for domestic flights are small compared to the fuel demand for international routes and also in comparison to land transports. There Norway's fuel consumption also are tiny to the global fuel consumption. There we also are running out of time on climate change.



So that you need is a quick electrification of sectors like road transports and also invest in public transport, bike lanes and walking paths. There you also need to find alternatives to fossil fuel and reduce the sectors that is harder to electrify. That for example hydrogen can also be an alternative for air plane and shipping while you need also for example invest in high speed rail that can reduce the need for flying. There business might also have more online meetings and conferences instead of personal meeting that require flying. There plug in car can be an important step in the transition because the range of the battery is enough for the daily commute so you can drastically reduce fuel consumption There it also can increase the interest and spur innovations for fully electric cars there for example already half of new cars sold in Norway are fully electric. There you also are seeing a sharp increase in electric cars in for example Germany.

You are making an assumption that the ramp up to man made fuels is greater than the ramp up to battery electric vehicles, and without any justification why one is better than the other.
What you are missing is that all of the demand and infrastructure for the distribution of liquid hydrocarbon fuels, already exists!
 
So where's all the lithium going to come from?
 
So where's all the lithium going to come from?

There are a lot of development and alternatives then it comes to batteries.



 
Nations that don't give a rip about their ecology, and will destroy the ecology mining it.

Fossil fuels are still after hundreds years a very dirty business. There it can also be great risk with trying to hold fossil fuel companies accountable for their pollution.



 
There are a lot of development and alternatives then it comes to batteries.



Of course we could always go with the way nature stores energy, a method perfected by evolution for almost a billion years, hydrocarbons!
 
Of course we could always go with the way nature stores energy, a method perfected by evolution for almost a billion years, hydrocarbons!


Still the only concrete example you have showed is a plant i Norway that will only be able to produce a small amount of the fuel needed for domestic flight in Norway and it will take several years before the plant is operational. While the transition towards electric cars are happening right now.


That you need to show that those fuels can be able to fulfill the needs of sectors that it harder to switch to electric like air planes and boats before areas that are much easier to switch to electric like cars. Also the energy required for producing those fuels are many times what is needed to charge electric cars. There that electricity is needed in many other areas like for example producing hydrogen for industrial processes and heating. Also hydrogen can also likely in many cases be a better alternative then the fuels you propose.
 
Still the only concrete example you have showed is a plant i Norway that will only be able to produce a small amount of the fuel needed for domestic flight in Norway and it will take several years before the plant is operational. While the transition towards electric cars are happening right now.


That you need to show that those fuels can be able to fulfill the needs of sectors that it harder to switch to electric like air planes and boats before areas that are much easier to switch to electric like cars. Also the energy required for producing those fuels are many times what is needed to charge electric cars. There that electricity is needed in many other areas like for example producing hydrogen for industrial processes and heating. Also hydrogen can also likely in many cases be a better alternative then the fuels you propose.
So you can show that all those potential battery ideas you cite will come to fruition and solve the daily and seasonal duty cycle issues of wind and solar?
 
So you can show that all those potential battery ideas you cite will come to fruition and solve the daily and seasonal duty cycle issues of wind and solar?

There have already been a dramatic drop in cost of renewables and batteries.




There it also ara great potential for continued advancements in renewable energy and battery storage.

"A cheap, safe battery able to store energy for long periods of time is the holy grail of the renewable energy sector, as it would be capable of removing the issue of wind and solar’s variability at a low cost.

With French financial advisers Lazard putting the levelised cost of storage (LCOS) of large-scale lithium-ion batteries at $132-245/MWh in its industry-standard annual report, Form’s battery — at a tenth of that cost — would be the cheapest type of energy storage available by some distance.

“This battery can be used continuously over a multi-day period and will enable a reliable, secure, and fully renewable electric grid year-round,” said Form Energy."

 
There have already been a dramatic drop in cost of renewables and batteries.




There it also ara great potential for continued advancements in renewable energy and battery storage.

"A cheap, safe battery able to store energy for long periods of time is the holy grail of the renewable energy sector, as it would be capable of removing the issue of wind and solar’s variability at a low cost.

With French financial advisers Lazard putting the levelised cost of storage (LCOS) of large-scale lithium-ion batteries at $132-245/MWh in its industry-standard annual report, Form’s battery — at a tenth of that cost — would be the cheapest type of energy storage available by some distance.

“This battery can be used continuously over a multi-day period and will enable a reliable, secure, and fully renewable electric grid year-round,” said Form Energy."

More corporate hype that you are promoting I see.

I though you were against corporate entities?

So many things corporations say never become a reality. Have to wait till it actually happens, instead of believing wishes come true.
 
More corporate hype that you are promoting I see.

I though you were against corporate entities?

So many things corporations say never become a reality. Have to wait till it actually happens, instead of believing wishes come true.

Two of my sources mentioned the massive positive change that already have happen.



That the transition away from fossil fuel are happening right now. There you also have this massive project approved by the Danish government.


 
Sono motor have an intersting example of solar electric vehicle fit with solar panels, that can significantly reduce the need for charging car used for commuting. Even in countries like Germany with less sunny weather.

 
Back
Top Bottom