- Joined
- Dec 14, 2005
- Messages
- 1,704
- Reaction score
- 10
- Location
- New Hampshire
- Gender
- Male
- Political Leaning
- Very Conservative
By not worrying about what your label is. By doing what is best regardless of party ideology. Oh wait, that is how you become a rational and intelligent Independent instead of part of the problem, my bad.
I am just as disenchanted with both liberals and conservatives. Conservatives for the very reasons that Iriemon stated.
And with liberals...I just see so much hypocrisy and general meanness out of them. Tolerance is their anthem until they face opposition and then it's do everything in their power to shut every thought down except those that they agree with. Plus, being a gay man, I have learned that there are two types of politics when it comes to me...those that will call me an abomination to my face and then those "tolerant liberals" who will call me a valuable citizen for my vote but then immediately call me a f@g as soon as I walk away. I say screw 'em both.
Being an straight liberal, I will say that in my experience the percentage of folks who will call you a f@g when you walk away is *much* higher amongst conservatives than liberals. I can honestly say that few liberals I know would even use the word.
I am just as disenchanted with both liberals and conservatives. Conservatives for the very reasons that Iriemon stated.
And with liberals...I just see so much hypocrisy and general meanness out of them. Tolerance is their anthem until they face opposition and then it's do everything in their power to shut every thought down except those that they agree with. Plus, being a gay man, I have learned that there are two types of politics when it comes to me...those that will call me an abomination to my face and then those "tolerant liberals" who will call me a valuable citizen for my vote but then immediately call me a f@g as soon as I walk away. I say screw 'em both.
You have met some ****ed up people then. I consider anyone who uses the word not intelligent enough to have a valid political opinion anyway, so I drop all generalizations about conservatives and liberals and just feel grateful I was blessed with a functioning brain when I meet them.
You don't give enough credit to people, most Americans wouldn't call you a f@g. Also, if you look at who's trying to support your rights for marriage, you'll see that liberals are the majority by far. So please don't place yourself at the center and fault everyone else when you're the one using your gayness as an excuse to place labels on people.
WHOA!!!! I expressed a valid opinion and never once did I say that my gayness was an excuse for the experiences I have had with others. I simply said that in my experience, I have seen a forward and honest approach from most conservatives I have met and a much more hypocritical interaction from the professed liberals I know. The labels are already there...I am making an observation as to what the labels often involve. :roll:
Jallman said:Most self proclaimed liberals I have met will feign tolerance and acceptance but would be the first to resort to slurs against my sexuality if we ever disagreed.
You have met some ****ed up people then. I consider anyone who uses the word not intelligent enough to have a valid political opinion anyway, so I drop all generalizations about conservatives and liberals and just feel grateful I was blessed with a functioning brain when I meet them.
You don't give enough credit to people, most Americans wouldn't call you a f@g. Also, if you look at who's trying to support your rights for marriage, you'll see that liberals are the majority by far. So please don't place yourself at the center and fault everyone else when you're the one using your gayness as an excuse to place labels on people.
Here's how they break down:
Conservatives:
1) See the world as not necessarily evil, but a hard place where you have to have discipline to support yourself.
2) Tend to see people as more likely to be evil than good.
3) Can't stand ambiguity or uncertainty.
4) Prefers a rigid hierarchy
As a result, to a conservative, the right kind of person is self-disciplined, adheres strictly to a moral code (not necessarily judeo-christian, but usually) which is absolute and unchanging, competitive, intollerant of "gray areas", and able to function within an authoritative structure.
Liberals:
1) See the world as not necessarily like disneyland, but not the hard place that conservatives see it as.
2) Tend to see people as more likely to be good than evil.
3) Are comfortable with ambiguity and uncertainty.
4) Tend to prefer an egalitarian, rather than a hierarchical, structure.
Read books, realize that the talk radio guys are full of sh!t by doing you own research, view your surroundings in an objective light.
Excellent analysis, but I disagree with 2 & 4.Liberalism and Conservativism, at least in this country, have far more to do with basic emotional values than intellectual positions. I am a liberal because my emotional values tend to be those that liberals have--though I have a few conservative emotional values as well.
Here's how they break down:
Conservatives:
1) See the world as not necessarily evil, but a hard place where you have to have discipline to support yourself.
2) Tend to see people as more likely to be evil than good.
3) Can't stand ambiguity or uncertainty.
4) Prefers a rigid hierarchy
As a result, to a conservative, the right kind of person is self-disciplined, adheres strictly to a moral code (not necessarily judeo-christian, but usually) which is absolute and unchanging, competitive, intollerant of "gray areas", and able to function within an authoritative structure.
Liberals:
1) See the world as not necessarily like disneyland, but not the hard place that conservatives see it as.
2) Tend to see people as more likely to be good than evil.
3) Are comfortable with ambiguity and uncertainty.
4) Tend to prefer an egalitarian, rather than a hierarchical, structure.
As a result, to a Liberal, the right kind of person cooperates with others to achieve a goal, questions tradition and decides for herself what is good, is comfortable with a lack of rules to apply to a given situation, and is able to function within a cooperative structure.
nort
for me it was just paying attention to politics and coming up w/ my own ideology. my parents are liberal but they never really imposed their views on me. after seeing and hearing bill o'reilly and rush limbaugh, i was just like "these guys are morons". that's how i became a liberal.
Liberalism and Conservativism, at least in this country, have far more to do with basic emotional values than intellectual positions. I am a liberal because my emotional values tend to be those that liberals have--though I have a few conservative emotional values as well.
Here's how they break down:
Conservatives:
1) See the world as not necessarily evil, but a hard place where you have to have discipline to support yourself.
2) Tend to see people as more likely to be evil than good.
3) Can't stand ambiguity or uncertainty.
4) Prefers a rigid hierarchy
As a result, to a conservative, the right kind of person is self-disciplined, adheres strictly to a moral code (not necessarily judeo-christian, but usually) which is absolute and unchanging, competitive, intollerant of "gray areas", and able to function within an authoritative structure.
Liberals:
1) See the world as not necessarily like disneyland, but not the hard place that conservatives see it as.
2) Tend to see people as more likely to be good than evil.
3) Are comfortable with ambiguity and uncertainty.
4) Tend to prefer an egalitarian, rather than a hierarchical, structure.
As a result, to a Liberal, the right kind of person cooperates with others to achieve a goal, questions tradition and decides for herself what is good, is comfortable with a lack of rules to apply to a given situation, and is able to function within a cooperative structure.
I am a Liberal because I think that, even though people are often very disappointing, especially at this point in history, there is generally a lot of good in people. I am quite comfortable with the idea that we don't have all the answers and that not everything will resolve to an either/or situation. I do not like exercising moral authority over others, and I don't like others exercising moral authority over me. I prefer a lax environment to a strict one. I would much rather live simply and enjoy pleasant company than live a life of stress to make a few extra bucks. Ultimately, I reject conservativism because conservativism can find moral good in harm, and I think there's seldom moral good in harming someone. I recognize that conditions change, so we must constantly question tradition because we're going to have to grow out of it or die.
But I have some conservative traits. For one thing, I am a stauch believer in self discipline (people should control themselves, not rely on government to do it). I recognize that there are times that violence is warranted. I am against gun control (well, actually, I'm for gun control if it applies to everyone on earth, including militaries and police forces--we ought to go back to sword fighting--but that's not going to happen) because it's clear to me that governments don't always have the best interests of their people at heart, and sometimes it's necessary to show those with political power that they may not push those they govern around too much.
One of the biggest mistakes liberals make when thinking about conservatives is they think that conservatives are dumb. That's really not the case. There are some dumb conservatives, but there are also some dumb liberals. Conservatives, for their part, tend to think of Liberals as not so much lacking in intelligence, but in lacking common sense--and that, too, is wrong.
... However it is my firm belief that the war in Iraq would be happening regardless of whether a Rep or Democrat was in the white house and I think many fail to recognize that. ...
For me the defining factor often comes down to money. I get to keep more of mine when Republicans are in charge. Does that make me cold hearted? No absolutely not. I prefer to donate money on my own to worthwhile causes vs having the government piss it away with no accountability.
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