How Does One Become Liberal?

[ptsdkid]

I have 3 liberally oriented brothers that have fit into perhaps 4 of the first 8 options above. And that all happened while being raised by two staunchly devoted Republican parents. Go Figure!

Now I'm willing to engage people in debate with this subject--even going as far as to tell you how people (such as myself) became Republicans or Conservatives. Of course, I would really like to see some liberals tell the forum of their genesis into liberalism by selecting the 'OTHER' option in the polling section. Don't be shy now.

 

[Iriemon]

For me, it was seeing that folks who called themselves "conservatives" (d)evolve from a group of fiscally responsible moderates to a fiscally irresponsible group dominated by the religious far-right.

I used to call myself a conservative, but nowadays ... yuck. Now I'm proud to call myself a liberal.

 

[Flea]

By not worrying about what your label is. By doing what is best regardless of party ideology. Oh wait, that is how you become a rational and intelligent Independent instead of part of the problem, my bad.

 

[saggyjones]

Originally, I was influenced by my parents, but as I matured, I realized I truly am liberal, so I chose other. I support capitalism but I think the market is a little too free, for example our trade deficit with China, and I think protectionism can be a good thing in some cases. Also I believe in equal health care for everyone, regardless of ability to pay, and I support giving illegal immigrants here now amnesty, but keeping new immigrants to a minimum. I support gay marriage because I believe everyone has a right to marry who they want, even if it goes against the Bible. The list goes on, but I don't want to put all my ideas down for time's sake. So the way I became liberal in the first place was my parents, but after I started questioning them and their beliefs I found I am a liberal also.

By the way, if you disagree with my beliefs on some issues, please don't argue here, because it would really derail the thread, just pm me if you really care

 

[saggyjones]

By not worrying about what your label is. By doing what is best regardless of party ideology. Oh wait, that is how you become a rational and intelligent Independent instead of part of the problem, my bad.

To be a liberal or conservative isn't worrying about party labels, it's sharing beliefs with a bunch of other people. Also, can you tell me what the problem is?

 

[Dogger807]

How does one become a liberal?


One word



Think

 

[jallman]

I am just as disenchanted with both liberals and conservatives. Conservatives for the very reasons that Iriemon stated.

And with liberals...I just see so much hypocrisy and general meanness out of them. Tolerance is their anthem until they face opposition and then it's do everything in their power to shut every thought down except those that they agree with. Plus, being a gay man, I have learned that there are two types of politics when it comes to me...those that will call me an abomination to my face and then those "tolerant liberals" who will call me a valuable citizen for my vote but then immediately call me a f@g as soon as I walk away. I say screw 'em both.

 

[Kandahar]

Found more solace in paganism/sectarianism then in Jesus Christ :lol:

 

[Iriemon]

I am just as disenchanted with both liberals and conservatives. Conservatives for the very reasons that Iriemon stated.

And with liberals...I just see so much hypocrisy and general meanness out of them. Tolerance is their anthem until they face opposition and then it's do everything in their power to shut every thought down except those that they agree with. Plus, being a gay man, I have learned that there are two types of politics when it comes to me...those that will call me an abomination to my face and then those "tolerant liberals" who will call me a valuable citizen for my vote but then immediately call me a f@g as soon as I walk away. I say screw 'em both.

Being an straight liberal, I will say that in my experience the percentage of folks who will call you a f@g when you walk away is *much* higher amongst conservatives than liberals. I can honestly say that few liberals I know would even use the word.

 

[jallman]

Being an straight liberal, I will say that in my experience the percentage of folks who will call you a f@g when you walk away is *much* higher amongst conservatives than liberals. I can honestly say that few liberals I know would even use the word.

I can respect your experience. However, I have had the experience that most conservatives will be forward about expressing their disagreement with my lifestyle while maintaining at least a modicum of civility. Most self proclaimed liberals I have met will feign tolerance and acceptance but would be the first to resort to slurs against my sexuality if we ever disagreed.

I have learned that conservatives hold no monopoly on bigotry...in fact, it is often the other way around. But that's just been my experience.

 

[ashurbanipal]

Liberalism and Conservativism, at least in this country, have far more to do with basic emotional values than intellectual positions. I am a liberal because my emotional values tend to be those that liberals have--though I have a few conservative emotional values as well.

Here's how they break down:

Conservatives:

1) See the world as not necessarily evil, but a hard place where you have to have discipline to support yourself.

2) Tend to see people as more likely to be evil than good.

3) Can't stand ambiguity or uncertainty.

4) Prefers a rigid hierarchy

As a result, to a conservative, the right kind of person is self-disciplined, adheres strictly to a moral code (not necessarily judeo-christian, but usually) which is absolute and unchanging, competitive, intollerant of "gray areas", and able to function within an authoritative structure.

Liberals:

1) See the world as not necessarily like disneyland, but not the hard place that conservatives see it as.

2) Tend to see people as more likely to be good than evil.

3) Are comfortable with ambiguity and uncertainty.

4) Tend to prefer an egalitarian, rather than a hierarchical, structure.

As a result, to a Liberal, the right kind of person cooperates with others to achieve a goal, questions tradition and decides for herself what is good, is comfortable with a lack of rules to apply to a given situation, and is able to function within a cooperative structure.

I am a Liberal because I think that, even though people are often very disappointing, especially at this point in history, there is generally a lot of good in people. I am quite comfortable with the idea that we don't have all the answers and that not everything will resolve to an either/or situation. I do not like exercising moral authority over others, and I don't like others exercising moral authority over me. I prefer a lax environment to a strict one. I would much rather live simply and enjoy pleasant company than live a life of stress to make a few extra bucks. Ultimately, I reject conservativism because conservativism can find moral good in harm, and I think there's seldom moral good in harming someone. I recognize that conditions change, so we must constantly question tradition because we're going to have to grow out of it or die.

But I have some conservative traits. For one thing, I am a stauch believer in self discipline (people should control themselves, not rely on government to do it). I recognize that there are times that violence is warranted. I am against gun control (well, actually, I'm for gun control if it applies to everyone on earth, including militaries and police forces--we ought to go back to sword fighting--but that's not going to happen) because it's clear to me that governments don't always have the best interests of their people at heart, and sometimes it's necessary to show those with political power that they may not push those they govern around too much.

One of the biggest mistakes liberals make when thinking about conservatives is they think that conservatives are dumb. That's really not the case. There are some dumb conservatives, but there are also some dumb liberals. Conservatives, for their part, tend to think of Liberals as not so much lacking in intelligence, but in lacking common sense--and that, too, is wrong.

 

[saggyjones]

I am just as disenchanted with both liberals and conservatives. Conservatives for the very reasons that Iriemon stated.

And with liberals...I just see so much hypocrisy and general meanness out of them. Tolerance is their anthem until they face opposition and then it's do everything in their power to shut every thought down except those that they agree with. Plus, being a gay man, I have learned that there are two types of politics when it comes to me...those that will call me an abomination to my face and then those "tolerant liberals" who will call me a valuable citizen for my vote but then immediately call me a f@g as soon as I walk away. I say screw 'em both.

You have met some ****ed up people then. I consider anyone who uses the word not intelligent enough to have a valid political opinion anyway, so I drop all generalizations about conservatives and liberals and just feel grateful I was blessed with a functioning brain when I meet them.

You don't give enough credit to people, most Americans wouldn't call you a f@g. Also, if you look at who's trying to support your rights for marriage, you'll see that liberals are the majority by far. So please don't place yourself at the center and fault everyone else when you're the one using your gayness as an excuse to place labels on people.

 

[jallman]

You have met some ****ed up people then. I consider anyone who uses the word not intelligent enough to have a valid political opinion anyway, so I drop all generalizations about conservatives and liberals and just feel grateful I was blessed with a functioning brain when I meet them.

You don't give enough credit to people, most Americans wouldn't call you a f@g. Also, if you look at who's trying to support your rights for marriage, you'll see that liberals are the majority by far. So please don't place yourself at the center and fault everyone else when you're the one using your gayness as an excuse to place labels on people.

WHOA!!!! I expressed a valid opinion and never once did I say that my gayness was an excuse for the experiences I have had with others. I simply said that in my experience, I have seen a forward and honest approach from most conservatives I have met and a much more hypocritical interaction from the professed liberals I know. The labels are already there...I am making an observation as to what the labels often involve. :roll:

 

[saggyjones]

WHOA!!!! I expressed a valid opinion and never once did I say that my gayness was an excuse for the experiences I have had with others. I simply said that in my experience, I have seen a forward and honest approach from most conservatives I have met and a much more hypocritical interaction from the professed liberals I know. The labels are already there...I am making an observation as to what the labels often involve. :roll:

Here's a quote from you:

Most self proclaimed liberals I have met will feign tolerance and acceptance but would be the first to resort to slurs against my sexuality if we ever disagreed.

Have you ever had an experience where a liberal bashed your sexuality? If so, I'm sorry and they don't represent the majority of liberals. But the word "would" gives me a clue that you're assuming things, and that's how I interpreted it. Please clarify if that's not the case.

 

[nort_12345]

for me it was just paying attention to politics and coming up w/ my own ideology. my parents are liberal but they never really imposed their views on me. after seeing and hearing bill o'reilly and rush limbaugh, i was just like "these guys are morons". that's how i became a liberal.

 

[1069]

You have met some ****ed up people then. I consider anyone who uses the word not intelligent enough to have a valid political opinion anyway, so I drop all generalizations about conservatives and liberals and just feel grateful I was blessed with a functioning brain when I meet them.

You don't give enough credit to people, most Americans wouldn't call you a f@g. Also, if you look at who's trying to support your rights for marriage, you'll see that liberals are the majority by far. So please don't place yourself at the center and fault everyone else when you're the one using your gayness as an excuse to place labels on people.

It's true, Jallman.
Whatever their shortcomings, liberals are your only hope; and mine.
Liberals can be unwittingly offensive in their judgements; the difference is, with liberals it usually is unwitting, unlike conservatives, whose offensiveness is often deliberate.
Liberals are also usually quick to apologize for their offensiveness, once it is brought to their attention; educated about how a particular derogatory term, epithet, or stereotype is objectionable, hurtful, unfair, or inaccurate, they are often quick to change their ways, as they do not like to think of themselves as being any of these things. Again, unlike conservatives, who often pride themselves on it.
Liberals in general, at least liberals of a certain class, are not overly enthusiastic about teen moms, at least in the abstract.
Thirtyish women with nearly grown children are not their favorites, either.
Their assessments, their preconceptions, their stereotypes about this sort of person can often border on condescending.
But nevertheless, my hope lies with them, not with conservatives who alternately place teen moms on a pedestal for selflessly "choosing life" and deride them for being ignorant sluts, welfare scum, and worthless burdens on society.
Liberals at least acknowledge that women are human, and equal, and deserve the same rights as anyone.
Conservatives don't, and the world is not safe for fence-sitters.
I choose to ally myself with the side that believes I'm human, even if they think I'm not the best, the most valuable, the most useful and worthwhile kind of human; not as good as, say, a woman who has her first child through IVF at age 45.
You might find this too, eventually.
You need allies- we all do- and as objectionable as liberals might be, they are the ones who believe you as a gay man are human, equal, and deserving of the same rights as everybody else. Not conservatives.
And if you tell liberals they've offended you, they'll more than likely be sorry. And if you explain to them how, specifically, they have offended you, they will more than likely take steps to avoid doing so in the future, and insist that everyone else avoid it, too... thus further outraging conservatives, who abhor anything that smacks of "political correctness".

 

[Doremus Jessup]

Read books, realize that the talk radio guys are full of sh!t by doing you own research, view your surroundings in an objective light.

 

[Morrow]

You have to come to our meetings, we all piss on an American flag and then sacrifice a baby to our multiple gods of taxes, treason and ted kennedy

Here's how they break down:

Conservatives:

1) See the world as not necessarily evil, but a hard place where you have to have discipline to support yourself.

2) Tend to see people as more likely to be evil than good.

3) Can't stand ambiguity or uncertainty.

4) Prefers a rigid hierarchy

As a result, to a conservative, the right kind of person is self-disciplined, adheres strictly to a moral code (not necessarily judeo-christian, but usually) which is absolute and unchanging, competitive, intollerant of "gray areas", and able to function within an authoritative structure.

Liberals:

1) See the world as not necessarily like disneyland, but not the hard place that conservatives see it as.

2) Tend to see people as more likely to be good than evil.

3) Are comfortable with ambiguity and uncertainty.

4) Tend to prefer an egalitarian, rather than a hierarchical, structure.

This is a very broad statement, but like many statements like it, it bears some truth. I am quite sure that there is a correlation between brain hemisphere and political affiliation. Right brain people tend to be more 'liberal', and left brain people tend to be more 'conservative'. Actually these concept are defined by the means by which the respective hemispheres perceive and organize information. The correlation is hard for me to dismiss.

 

[Sauwan]

Read books, realize that the talk radio guys are full of sh!t by doing you own research, view your surroundings in an objective light.

While I don't consider myself liberal or conservative, I used to be a 2.13,-7.58 on the political compass, but I've done a bit of reading as of late, especially of John Rawls, and it has shifted me almost exactly two points "left" on the x-axis. Now I'm right smack dab in the middle, but way down south.

An open mind is all it takes for Rawls to shift you left. Rawls is also the basis of many of the claims Nozick makes, who is considered by many to be the top libertarian (think bottom right on that compass) political thinker of the 20th century. I'd agree. They are both quite bright.

I would challenge any conservative to read Rawls honestly, seriously consider his claims, and reconsider your stance. While he claims to liberalism, his basic claims don't necessitate it.

 

[Schweddy]

Liberalism and Conservativism, at least in this country, have far more to do with basic emotional values than intellectual positions. I am a liberal because my emotional values tend to be those that liberals have--though I have a few conservative emotional values as well.

Here's how they break down:

Conservatives:

1) See the world as not necessarily evil, but a hard place where you have to have discipline to support yourself.

2) Tend to see people as more likely to be evil than good.

3) Can't stand ambiguity or uncertainty.

4) Prefers a rigid hierarchy

As a result, to a conservative, the right kind of person is self-disciplined, adheres strictly to a moral code (not necessarily judeo-christian, but usually) which is absolute and unchanging, competitive, intollerant of "gray areas", and able to function within an authoritative structure.

Liberals:

1) See the world as not necessarily like disneyland, but not the hard place that conservatives see it as.

2) Tend to see people as more likely to be good than evil.

3) Are comfortable with ambiguity and uncertainty.

4) Tend to prefer an egalitarian, rather than a hierarchical, structure.

As a result, to a Liberal, the right kind of person cooperates with others to achieve a goal, questions tradition and decides for herself what is good, is comfortable with a lack of rules to apply to a given situation, and is able to function within a cooperative structure.

Excellent analysis, but I disagree with 2 & 4.
Good or evil:
Conservatives definatly are more personally judgmental, but I think it is the individual that is able to see good or evil in persons.

Structure and hierarchy:
I think you are on to something, but I think it is more morality based than leadership based. I think that Conservatives prefer a strong leader and will follow whatever that leader advises until morally questioning the intention of the advice. Liberals will follow a leader closely until logically questioning the validity of the advice.

A does not equal B even if the grand puba says it is!
A Liberal mindset will - think no it is not right, let's stop and fix before next step or just simply complain about it before proceeding. A common response for a liberal - that was ignorant.
Example: Let's get out of Iraq NOW!

A Conservative mindset will - question and analyze why it was said/asked and attempt fix in progress or just simply complain about it. A common response for a conservative - that was stupid.
Example: Let's complete Iraq issue so we can get out of there.

I believe I am very much a conservative, but I question it everyday. lol

 

[talloulou]

First off I think it depends on how you view your government and what roles you'd like the government to play.

On many of the social issues I'm fairly liberal, except abortion.

However I rarely consider social issues when voting. I'd never pick a candidate on the basis of whether they were for or against abortion 'cause I don't believe things would change in regards to abortion regardless of what a candidates stance is. I don't have a problem with gay marriage but since I'm not gay I honestly don't weigh that issue too heavily when voting.

I do find that many people though, especially young people, only consider social issues and nothing else when they vote. So they easily and readily become "liberal."

A great example would be the war in Iraq. Noone likes war. And many young people who are anti-war tend to consider themselves "liberal." However it is my firm belief that the war in Iraq would be happening regardless of whether a Rep or Democrat was in the white house and I think many fail to recognize that.

For me the defining factor often comes down to money. I get to keep more of mine when Republicans are in charge. Does that make me cold hearted? No absolutely not. I prefer to donate money on my own to worthwhile causes vs having the government piss it away with no accountability.

 

[BodiSatva]

nort
for me it was just paying attention to politics and coming up w/ my own ideology. my parents are liberal but they never really imposed their views on me. after seeing and hearing bill o'reilly and rush limbaugh, i was just like "these guys are morons". that's how i became a liberal.

Yeah, because Mike Wallace, Stephanie Miller and Al Franken are just so balanced... :rofl

 

[Sauwan]

Liberalism and Conservativism, at least in this country, have far more to do with basic emotional values than intellectual positions. I am a liberal because my emotional values tend to be those that liberals have--though I have a few conservative emotional values as well.

Here's how they break down:

Conservatives:

1) See the world as not necessarily evil, but a hard place where you have to have discipline to support yourself.

2) Tend to see people as more likely to be evil than good.

3) Can't stand ambiguity or uncertainty.

4) Prefers a rigid hierarchy

As a result, to a conservative, the right kind of person is self-disciplined, adheres strictly to a moral code (not necessarily judeo-christian, but usually) which is absolute and unchanging, competitive, intollerant of "gray areas", and able to function within an authoritative structure.

Liberals:

1) See the world as not necessarily like disneyland, but not the hard place that conservatives see it as.

2) Tend to see people as more likely to be good than evil.

3) Are comfortable with ambiguity and uncertainty.

4) Tend to prefer an egalitarian, rather than a hierarchical, structure.

As a result, to a Liberal, the right kind of person cooperates with others to achieve a goal, questions tradition and decides for herself what is good, is comfortable with a lack of rules to apply to a given situation, and is able to function within a cooperative structure.

I am a Liberal because I think that, even though people are often very disappointing, especially at this point in history, there is generally a lot of good in people. I am quite comfortable with the idea that we don't have all the answers and that not everything will resolve to an either/or situation. I do not like exercising moral authority over others, and I don't like others exercising moral authority over me. I prefer a lax environment to a strict one. I would much rather live simply and enjoy pleasant company than live a life of stress to make a few extra bucks. Ultimately, I reject conservativism because conservativism can find moral good in harm, and I think there's seldom moral good in harming someone. I recognize that conditions change, so we must constantly question tradition because we're going to have to grow out of it or die.

But I have some conservative traits. For one thing, I am a stauch believer in self discipline (people should control themselves, not rely on government to do it). I recognize that there are times that violence is warranted. I am against gun control (well, actually, I'm for gun control if it applies to everyone on earth, including militaries and police forces--we ought to go back to sword fighting--but that's not going to happen) because it's clear to me that governments don't always have the best interests of their people at heart, and sometimes it's necessary to show those with political power that they may not push those they govern around too much.

One of the biggest mistakes liberals make when thinking about conservatives is they think that conservatives are dumb. That's really not the case. There are some dumb conservatives, but there are also some dumb liberals. Conservatives, for their part, tend to think of Liberals as not so much lacking in intelligence, but in lacking common sense--and that, too, is wrong.

I'm assuming this is all coming from recently reading Don't think of an Elephant or Moral Politics by George Lakoff?

I think he presents that book in a relatively too simplistic way - but he does this knowing that for the democrats to regain power, they have to do that.

 

[Iriemon]

... However it is my firm belief that the war in Iraq would be happening regardless of whether a Rep or Democrat was in the white house and I think many fail to recognize that. ...

Disagree 100% with this contention. The Iraq war was largely if not solely the creation of the administration and the neocons. Iraq was barely on the political map until this administration and its neocon backers began its campaign of deception and mispimplication which eventually led a majority in this nation to believe that Iraq was directly involved in 9-11 -- a erroneous belief many still have today.

 

[Iriemon]

For me the defining factor often comes down to money. I get to keep more of mine when Republicans are in charge. Does that make me cold hearted? No absolutely not. I prefer to donate money on my own to worthwhile causes vs having the government piss it away with no accountability.

The frustration I've had with the Republicans is that they have done this even more than the Dems, tho' on different programs. The Govt is spending $200 billion a year more on just defense since 2001, yet doesn't have any more men in uniform. Where the hell is all that money going?